Is it OK for my child to be humiliated?

[Steve]

I am just saying Martial Arts can be your whole life, if you so desire. Why say it is like the friggin Cub Scouts?

Ask Tez about the scouts, but I'm pretty sure it's a worthwhile, lifetime endeavor for those who choose it. I work with a person who is a lifetime member of the girl scouts and is still active at close to 60. Playing a musical instrument can be your whole life. Nothing makes martial arts more or less than any worthwhile endeavor, whether it's music, dance, art, any sport or athletic activity.

It's interesting that you find me to be the one limiting others, when you are so arrogantly dismissive of scouting. You're a strange dude.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That's true. Which stuff do you find limiting?

I am saying it is more than little league and playing the tuba; so, if he "tries" to market it as such, he would be correct, Sir.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ask Tez about the scouts, but I'm pretty sure it's a worthwhile, lifetime endeavor for those who choose it. I work with a person who is a lifetime member of the girl scouts and is still active at close to 60. Playing a musical instrument can be your whole life. Nothing makes martial arts more or less than any worthwhile endeavor, whether it's music, dance, art, any sport or athletic activity.

It's interesting that you find me to be the one limiting others, when you are so arrogantly dismissive of scouting. You're a strange dude.

I have found you think that about a lot of us; so, I am in good company.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Why aren't you trolling the Tuba forum?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I know that there are many different perspectives here, but I'll say once again that this isn't any different than ANY other sport or athletic activity.

I think you have a very healthy attitude. I'm glad to see that you are keeping these lessons in perspective and frankly, I disagree completely with the idea that you should be taking these lessons seriously at all... or at least any more seriously than any other youth activity. The reality is that your son is likely NOT learning any practical self defense, and will not be a killer ninja by the time he's 12 (even if he does have a black belt). That said, there is a ton of value in kids participating in sports and outside activities that they enjoy and which provide healthy environments for them to develop, and if he enjoys this particular activity, awesome.

What your son should be learning (hopefully) are the same things that he would get from any quality coach or teacher, whether in scouts, little league, or learning to play the tuba.

If your guy tries to market it as something MORE or different from little league baseball, football, or any other youth activity, trust your instincts. If he's doing things that you would find unacceptable from the scout leader, chess team coach, teacher or any other adult, don't let your gut reaction be influenced by others. And that goes for us strangers or, frankly, other parents. We have an epidemic of poor parenting in this country. I wouldn't presume that because other parents are okay with something, they are wise to be so.

Your post hurts my eyes. The part about not learning practical self defense. How dare you. Lol. Unfortunately I'm finding out that what you say is true. I knew it was bad, but I didn't think it was as bad as your statement until I started teaching kids from belted systems. But it's true. Many parents don't put their child in martial arts to learn self defense. some only put them in for the discipline and could care less if their child could actually fight.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Some don't even put them in for discipline. Its an hour a day three days a week where they have a free babysitter. That's all they care about.

 

[Tez3]

Many parents don't put their child in martial arts to learn self defense. some only put them in for the discipline and could care less if their child could actually fight.

Parents put their children in a martial arts class for a number of reasons, and just as many adults don't train for self defence, the children don't also go to learn that. It's not always about discipline either. Many parents don't want their children to fight, just as again many adults don't want to fight.
Teaching children martial arts is hugely rewarding, we rarely have parents come for the discipline, they come because the child wants to learn martial arts and there's a lot to like in that. Some parents can be 'serious' about martial arts, wanting their child to excel but my belief is that every single child is good at something and it may take a while to find that something but it's worth looking.
One should be serious about what activities your child does even when it's for fun, that means taking it seriously as in not belittling a child for it's choices ( if your son wants to knit and sew, if your daughter wants to build cars etc), you should take having fun seriously, it's something kids ( and adults should do). If your child finds martial arts fun and enjoyable then that is an end in itself, you don't actually need more.
'Serious' doesn't mean being po faced and intense, it means recognising that your child finds an activity worthwhile and you shouldn't cut their classes/games/meetings etc just because you can't be bothered to take them or you'd rather go shopping, 'serious' means understanding what the activity means to the child and going with it, encouraging them and not pushing them. It also means not being disappointed when a young child has had enough and wants to try something else, it's means they are still looking for their 'thing'.

 

[MichaelSourey]

I am just saying Martial Arts can be your whole life, if you so desire. Why say it is like the friggin Cub Scouts?

Now I get where you're coming from.

 

[MichaelSourey]

Parents put their children in a martial arts class for a number of reasons, and just as many adults don't train for self defence, the children don't also go to learn that. It's not always about discipline either. Many parents don't want their children to fight, just as again many adults don't want to fight.
Teaching children martial arts is hugely rewarding, we rarely have parents come for the discipline, they come because the child wants to learn martial arts and there's a lot to like in that. Some parents can be 'serious' about martial arts, wanting their child to excel but my belief is that every single child is good at something and it may take a while to find that something but it's worth looking.
One should be serious about what activities your child does even when it's for fun, that means taking it seriously as in not belittling a child for it's choices ( if your son wants to knit and sew, if your daughter wants to build cars etc), you should take having fun seriously, it's something kids ( and adults should do). If your child finds martial arts fun and enjoyable then that is an end in itself, you don't actually need more.
'Serious' doesn't mean being po faced and intense, it means recognising that your child finds an activity worthwhile and you shouldn't cut their classes/games/meetings etc just because you can't be bothered to take them or you'd rather go shopping, 'serious' means understanding what the activity means to the child and going with it, encouraging them and not pushing them. It also means not being disappointed when a young child has had enough and wants to try something else, it's means they are still looking for their 'thing'.

That read like poetry. Wonderful!

 

[Steve]

I am saying it is more than little league and playing the tuba; so, if he "tries" to market it as such, he would be correct, Sir.

So, we disagree. I'm good with that. You have an opinion that is different than mine. What's the problem? To be clear, I'm not trying to change your opinion. Have at it. I honestly don't even know how to respond to the rest of your comments.

Your post hurts my eyes. The part about not learning practical self defense. How dare you. Lol. Unfortunately I'm finding out that what you say is true. I knew it was bad, but I didn't think it was as bad as your statement until I started teaching kids from belted systems. But it's true. Many parents don't put their child in martial arts to learn self defense. some only put them in for the discipline and could care less if their child could actually fight.

Whoa. Self defense is not actually fighting... suggesting that the two are synonymous will get you into big trouble around here!

Seriously, though, my point is that a 12 year old may be a gifted athlete, but there is danger in overconfidence. I've seen some kids just get wrecked when they realize that their martial arts skills don't work as well as they have been led to believe.

But the main point is that martial arts is a worthwhile endeavor for kids, but no more or less worthwhile than any other childhood activity. Tez has it spot on.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

Quite honestly It doesn't sound anything bad at all. For when you walked it was probably just a simple game before class and if none of the other parents were bothered i doubt it was anything to be majorly worried about. As for the other action again doesn't seem wrong at all you say got him to crouch down. That could've simply been get into a stance (in my martial art there's a stance called a horse stance which is a lot like a crouch and it hurts the legs after a while and the other bit could've been simply a joke to keep it light hearted. But I can't say for absolute sure but let's be honest no instructor is really going to try and be outright malicious or bullying with lots of parents around and since no one seemed to care I doubt it's a problem

 

[Steve]

Parents put their children in a martial arts class for a number of reasons, and just as many adults don't train for self defence, the children don't also go to learn that. It's not always about discipline either. Many parents don't want their children to fight, just as again many adults don't want to fight.
Teaching children martial arts is hugely rewarding, we rarely have parents come for the discipline, they come because the child wants to learn martial arts and there's a lot to like in that. Some parents can be 'serious' about martial arts, wanting their child to excel but my belief is that every single child is good at something and it may take a while to find that something but it's worth looking.
One should be serious about what activities your child does even when it's for fun, that means taking it seriously as in not belittling a child for it's choices ( if your son wants to knit and sew, if your daughter wants to build cars etc), you should take having fun seriously, it's something kids ( and adults should do). If your child finds martial arts fun and enjoyable then that is an end in itself, you don't actually need more.
'Serious' doesn't mean being po faced and intense, it means recognising that your child finds an activity worthwhile and you shouldn't cut their classes/games/meetings etc just because you can't be bothered to take them or you'd rather go shopping, 'serious' means understanding what the activity means to the child and going with it, encouraging them and not pushing them. It also means not being disappointed when a young child has had enough and wants to try something else, it's means they are still looking for their 'thing'.

I wish I could like this twice. Very well said.

 

[Tez3]

That read like poetry. Wonderful!

Thank you, you are very kind. I am passionate about giving children the best experiences we can, apart from teaching martial arts I'm also in Girl Guiding, I take them in Rainbows ( from 5-7), Brownies (7-10) and Guides ( 10-14), we do amazing things and have adventures. We camp, we travel, we make things, we learn, we have enormous fun and we grow ( all of us not just the girls lol). When the girls are older, they travel to different countries helping and teaching, we have a long tradition of service too, (Girl Guides followed the troops who landed in France after the D Day landings to look after the civilians and go on to look after the camp survivors. In the Ebola epidemic in Africa, Gudies went from village to village to teach hygiene, there's much much more too.) I can go on for pages lol.

Besides we have to be nice to the children, they will be looking after us when we are old

Anyway, I'd go with what your son wants as long as after you speak to the instructor it seems fine. He may not stick at martial arts but there's plenty of things out there to choose.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Whoa. Self defense is not actually fighting...

Sure it is. While there is a lot more to self defense than fighting, fighting is certainly part of what the term includes.

suggesting that the two are synonymous will get you into big trouble around here!

I doubt it...

Seriously, though, my point is that a 12 year old may be a gifted athlete, but there is danger in overconfidence. I've seen some kids just get wrecked when they realize that their martial arts skills don't work as well as they have been led to believe.

Absolutely. And as has been pointed out, lots of people (of all ages) study martial arts for lots of reasons. Sometimes self defense is part of that, sometimes it's not.

But the main point is that martial arts is a worthwhile endeavor for kids, but no more or less worthwhile than any other childhood activity. Tez has it spot on.

It's a worthwhile endeavor for anyone, of any age.

 

[Steve]

Sure it is. While there is a lot more to self defense than fighting, fighting is certainly part of what the term includes.

I doubt it...

youre kidding. Right? I think that this depends entirely on who you are and where you say it. But that statement was intended to be tongue in cheek. Didn't you see my smiley face?

Absolutely. And as has been pointed out, lots of people (of all ages) study martial arts for lots of reasons. Sometimes self defense is part of that, sometimes it's not.

I don't understand what I wrote that prompted this response.

It's a worthwhile endeavor for anyone, of any age.

but we aren't in a thread about anyone of any age, DD. why are you bringing this up? This is a thread about a child in a martial arts class.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you, you are very kind. I am passionate about giving children the best experiences we can, apart from teaching martial arts I'm also in Girl Guiding, I take them in Rainbows ( from 5-7), Brownies (7-10) and Guides ( 10-14), we do amazing things and have adventures. We camp, we travel, we make things, we learn, we have enormous fun and we grow ( all of us not just the girls lol). When the girls are older, they travel to different countries helping and teaching, we have a long tradition of service too, (Girl Guides followed the troops who landed in France after the D Day landings to look after the civilians and go on to look after the camp survivors. In the Ebola epidemic in Africa, Gudies went from village to village to teach hygiene, there's much much more too.) I can go on for pages lol.

Besides we have to be nice to the children, they will be looking after us when we are old

Anyway, I'd go with what your son wants as long as after you speak to the instructor it seems fine. He may not stick at martial arts but there's plenty of things out there to choose.

I'm passionate about giving kids the best experience, too. That's why I don't train kids.

 

[Buka]

Kids.......they're those loud, small, sticky things, right? What a pain they are to teach. Teach them for ten, fifteen years, you know, just getting warmed up, and suddenly, POOF, they're people. And you never really saw it coming.

Next thing you know they're bringing in some other loud, small, sticky thing and introducing you to their son. Who, more often than not, usually uppercuts like his mother.

MichaelSourey, he'll probably be fine, just stay involved and keep being Dad.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Parents put their children in a martial arts class for a number of reasons, and just as many adults don't train for self defence, the children don't also go to learn that. It's not always about discipline either. Many parents don't want their children to fight, just as again many adults don't want to fight.
Teaching children martial arts is hugely rewarding, we rarely have parents come for the discipline, they come because the child wants to learn martial arts and there's a lot to like in that. Some parents can be 'serious' about martial arts, wanting their child to excel but my belief is that every single child is good at something and it may take a while to find that something but it's worth looking.
One should be serious about what activities your child does even when it's for fun, that means taking it seriously as in not belittling a child for it's choices ( if your son wants to knit and sew, if your daughter wants to build cars etc), you should take having fun seriously, it's something kids ( and adults should do). If your child finds martial arts fun and enjoyable then that is an end in itself, you don't actually need more.
'Serious' doesn't mean being po faced and intense, it means recognising that your child finds an activity worthwhile and you shouldn't cut their classes/games/meetings etc just because you can't be bothered to take them or you'd rather go shopping, 'serious' means understanding what the activity means to the child and going with it, encouraging them and not pushing them. It also means not being disappointed when a young child has had enough and wants to try something else, it's means they are still looking for their 'thing'.

I agree with you for the most part. It's just for me I was raised to put real effort into everything I do. If I don't want to put real effort into it then I don't need to waste my time doing the activity. If I take a martial arts then I take it for the purpose learning the value of it both as a self defense and as a life experience. I can't separate the 2, because part of that life experience includes learning how to use it to defend myself, which is what many traditional martial arts are about. Not only do I get good life experience from the hardship of training, but I also get the physical and mental development that comes from training. If all I want is a colored belt and no real training, then I can save my time and money and just buy a black belt. I would still have crappy fighting and self-defense skills and I would still miss the experience of the journey. It just wouldn't take me many years and tons of money to get to that same point by not putting real effort into my training.

I worked in youth development for a little more than 20 years and I can tell you that many children aren't going to see the importance of certain activities. There are things that my parents made me do and I hated it. But as I got older, the importance of those experiences that I didn't like as a child became clearer. There were things that I didn't want to do but I was glad that my parents made me do it. I have had kids say the same things, that I was strict with them and made them learn about computers and how they fought me every step of the way to not learn. As they got older, they began to understand why I wanted them to learn those skills and were glad that I forced them to learn it.
It's good for children to choose some things, but it's up to the parents to make sure that the child learns important life skills even if it requires the child to do things that they may not like or find value in now, but will find value in later on in life.

For me self-defense is just one of those things. There's no excuse or reason in my book for a child or a person in general to not know how to protect themselves physically. Every animal in the world learns how to do this on some kind of level, avoidance if possible, physical defense if necessary. But some humans do just the opposite. They literally take the position that they don't need to know how to protect themselves or that there is no value in it.

The perspective for parents shouldn't be about "Not wanting their kids to fight" It should be about "if their kids had no choice, could they fight to protect themselves." There is a different between "Not wanting to fight" and "Not able to fight." Learning how to fight doesn't mean the child is going to now be in street fights all the time. That's what the other life lessons and conversations with the child are for.

My son doesn't like Kung Fu but I train him with it until I'm satisfied that he has at least learned the basic skills. If he never needs the skills then great, nothing is lost. However, if a day comes where he's forced to used those fighting skills, he'll be glad that he has them. It's like a life jacket. No one thinks they will need one or that they are important until the ship starts sinking.

 

[Tez3]

I can tell you that many children aren't going to see the importance of certain activities.

Why should they see the importance to you of activities? some activities have what appears to be no or little importance, daydreaming for example but are actually very important for a child's development.

They literally take the position that they don't need to know how to protect themselves or that there is no value in it.

For many such as Quakers this is a matter of faith and belief, pacifist to the core they will not fight. Many people do not believe in fighting and will stick to that position, that is their right and should no more be judged for that than you should for making your children fight.

"Not wanting their kids to fight" It should be about "if their kids had no choice, could they fight to protect themselves." There is a different between "Not wanting to fight" and "Not able to fight." Learning how to fight doesn't mean the child is going to now be in street fights all the time. That's what the other life lessons and conversations with the child are for.

We come from very different societies, fighting for most parents here is something alien, something they have never needed to do and don't see the need for their children to do, like the gun and being armed issues it's something not considered here and in fact not in a lot of other places either. that's not sticking our heads in the sand by the way but a recognition that we live differently.

 

[ballen0351]