How would you deal with multiple attackers who are bigger?

[Bigshadow]

First, I would say, it really doesn't matter whether they are bigger or smaller, they all have a human form (two legs, two arms, head, torso) and can only move like a human. Weight or size really doesn't amount to much in dealing with them IMHO.

However, the question assumes that I would already be beyond talking my way out of it or circumventing it in the first place. Now I must be in the worst situation an actual attack.

1. I agree that running is a good option, but might not be the best option, because running will then be a test of physical abilities.

2. Many other people talked about "Keep moving". I agree, I would have to keep moving, but just moving about randomly is not going to help much. I say move to the safe spots of any attack.

3. Others have said to use them against themselves, I agree. Definitely, use them as shields from the others as you deal with them.

4. Others have said not to wait around until all are finished off. I agree. At the point running is safe, it might be best to get "skid out".

I don't think that I have said anything new (collectively) that other have not said. Just this summarizes what I think the important points are as derived from this thread.

Let's hope that we never have to deal with that. I think as several have pointed out, mitigating the intent to harm before the attack is paramount.

 

[Jerry]

I seem to recall that Col. W.E. Fairbairn (although it could have be Col. Applegate) said that "empty-hand techniques are only for the times when you have been foolish enough to find yourself without a weapon." I think that pretty much sums it up.

Improvised weapon? Fair enough.

Purpose weapon? How many do you have on you right now? How many do you carry at work? How many do you carry at your family reunion? On your air-travel? etc.

 

[Flamebearer]

Yes... do you have a weapon? Do they have a weapon? Where are you?

Good situation: a place with lots of escape routes and things to hide behind and get your attackers confused about where you went/are. RUN!!!!

Bad situation: room with steel walls, floor, ceiling, no way out. (Don't ask me how you got in . hee, hee. That's your fault.) When fighting multiple opponents, the main thing is to not fight them all at once. Try and keep some behind the others so they can't get at you. Using the smallest one as a shield is not a bad idea either.

Just my 2 cents!
-Flamebearer

 

[KenpoTex]

Improvised weapon? Fair enough.

Purpose weapon? How many do you have on you right now? How many do you carry at work? How many do you carry at your family reunion? On your air-travel? etc.

Okay, I'll bite...

Normal day (not at work): 3-4 knives (at least one accessible to either hand); impact weapon of some sort (kubaton, stinger, travel-wrench, etc.); OC spray; garrote (sometimes). If I'm in the car I've got a .357.

At work: In addition to all of above: either 9mm or .45 acp with extra mags; mag-light flashlight; smaller flashlight (Inova X5 at the moment).

Family reunion: see normal day stuff

On plane: flashlight, a couple of sturdy pens.
-------------

basically my philosophy on fighting is the same whether it's fighting multiple attackers, or just one. My goal is to eliminate the threat as quickly as possible using all available means. Now, "eliminating the threat" does not automatically mean resorting to the maximum force available, it might mean simply walking away; or defending/evading and running away; or inflicting some significant damage up to and including the use of lethal-force.

Weapons are just a force multiplier, just a tool to help get the job done.

 

[47MartialMan]

At work: Everybody is fired/suspended if they fight. (Have glock on me...I work the counter-dad is owner)


At movies/rest/mall/: Glock 22-Have Conceal-carry permit...(got one for the family business)

 

[MJS]

Its amazing to think about how many different things that are around us on a daily basis that can be used as a weapon. Keys, kubaton as kenpotex mentioned, a belt, pen, pencil...the list can go on and on.

Its always nice to know that there is an equalizer available if needed! :supcool:

Mike

 

[Adept]

At work: Everybody is fired/suspended if they fight. (Have glock on me...I work the counter-dad is owner)


At movies/rest/mall/: Glock 22-Have Conceal-carry permit...(got one for the family business)

If you don't mind me asking, what is the family business? It certainly sounds interesting, at the least.

 

[47MartialMan]

If you don't mind me asking, what is the family business? It certainly sounds interesting, at the least.

The family business is a rental store. We rent just about everything from lawn equipment, construction equipment, party goods (tables/chairs/inflatable kid jumps.

The customers are instructed to leave a deposit (returnable). Much of this is cash. Needless to say, there are some "charecters" that come in. Some start trouble. On four recent occassions, there was attempted robberies.

The family decided this will be our last year. The sale revenue will de divided equally.

Being part of a family business gives me the ability, besides generousity, to teach MA for free.

 

[Jerry]

I've go a Glock 23 myself (I like the .40) and the CCW to carry it. While work doesn't technically allow it, my instructions from security are "don't tell", and I'm not telling you either .

OTOH, the gun range doesn't allow loaded weapon carried in, and neither does the courthouse, or the police barn, nor the airport. Did you know that CCWs are not legitimate in areas where alcholol is served?

The moral of the story being, even among the fiew of us who are oft armed, we are oft unarmed as well... we need to have multiple attacker strategies which don't include frearms as well as those that do.

 

[47MartialMan]

I've go a Glock 23 myself (I like the .40) and the CCW to carry it. While work doesn't technically allow it, my instructions from security are "don't tell", and I'm not telling you either .

OTOH, the gun range doesn't allow loaded weapon carried in, and neither does the courthouse, or the police barn, nor the airport. Did you know that CCWs are not legitimate in areas where alcholol is served?

The moral of the story being, even among the fiew of us who are oft armed, we are oft unarmed as well... we need to have multiple attacker strategies which don't include frearms as well as those that do.

Nicely put....but given those areas you mentioned, have law enforcement or security "detail" anyway. So the occurance of something going on with larger opponents are slim.

 

[searcher]

even among the fiew of us who are oft armed, we are oft unarmed as well... we need to have multiple attacker strategies which don't include frearms as well as those that do.

Very well put indeed.

I agree that as often as you are armed there are as many or more times where you are not.

 

[Rich Parsons]

No one just confronts someone, "out of the blue", for no reason unless provoked. (I am not talking about gang intiations here)

I disagree with. I have seen people attack out of the blue, just because they were now ready and the person in front of them did not matter.

Now some would say, why were you in a place like this? You could have left, and in many of the cases I would agree. But a couple of times a drunk who had a bad day or was just looking in a nice place, just let go.

Sometimes it is not provoked.

Now the rest of your post about paying attention, is the right way to approach.

 

[Knarfan]

Its amazing to think about how many different things that are around us on a daily basis that can be used as a weapon. Keys, kubaton as kenpotex mentioned, a belt, pen, pencil...the list can go on and on.

Its always nice to know that there is an equalizer available if needed!

Mike

I know what you are saying eqalizers are good for certain occations . The only problem I see is that it may esscalate the attack . unless you are going to use a weapon that is going to put an end to the attack quickly you are risking really pissing your attackers off . Unless you can take them out quickly they most likely are going to raise the level also . When I was growing up I hung out with guys who liked to fight . I myself always hated to fight . I thought it was stupid & I still do for any reason . Never the less everytime we went out it seemed like we would find trouble . It would always be differant . People who enjoy violance aren't happy with just fighting , it tends to bore them . They need more . So one time my best friend got us in a fight with seven marines . He had made a comment to a girl . He upset her so she brought back a gang of marines . They were trying to explain to my stupid friend the error of his ways , but of course he wasen't listening . He found a new challenge . One thing led to another & it was on . Seven on two . Me & my stupid friend did okay . We got our butts beat , we got our licks in . I had a couple of weapons on me that could have equalled the odds with , but I decided to take my medicine because I believed that the marines were good guys & I trusted they weren't going to kill us . It turned out to be a good decition . My lumps all healed . I guess my point is that alot of this stuff happens for stupid reasons . If that is the case I don't think it's a good idea to bring a weapon into play . Of course there is no way to know for sure , but my rule is to always try & talk my way out of it NO MATTER WHAT you have to get over the anger . If you do come to the conclusion that the attack is on a more serious level you have to make sure that you are ready to finish the job . I don't think any of us would ever want to be in that position . So draw your weapons wisely . BTW most of my MA training is with weapons , but the more I train the less likely I would consider pulling a weapon . It really is a no win situation . I guess sometimes there is no other way , but I think you have to try extra hard to find other answers . Who knows , it might just be a matter of taking a few lumps .

:asian: Frank

 

[47MartialMan]

I disagree with. I have seen people attack out of the blue, just because they were now ready and the person in front of them did not matter.

Sometimes it is not provoked.

Allow me to re-phrase:

Hardly anyone just confronts someone, "out of the blue", for no reason (there are reasons) unless provoked. Reasons: other than provoked-substance or attitude problems. (I am not talking about gang intiations here)

 

[MJS]

I know what you are saying eqalizers are good for certain occations . The only problem I see is that it may esscalate the attack . unless you are going to use a weapon that is going to put an end to the attack quickly you are risking really pissing your attackers off . Unless you can take them out quickly they most likely are going to raise the level also . When I was growing up I hung out with guys who liked to fight . I myself always hated to fight . I thought it was stupid & I still do for any reason . Never the less everytime we went out it seemed like we would find trouble . It would always be differant . People who enjoy violance aren't happy with just fighting , it tends to bore them . They need more . So one time my best friend got us in a fight with seven marines . He had made a comment to a girl . He upset her so she brought back a gang of marines . They were trying to explain to my stupid friend the error of his ways , but of course he wasen't listening . He found a new challenge . One thing led to another & it was on . Seven on two . Me & my stupid friend did okay . We got our butts beat , we got our licks in . I had a couple of weapons on me that could have equalled the odds with , but I decided to take my medicine because I believed that the marines were good guys & I trusted they weren't going to kill us . It turned out to be a good decition . My lumps all healed . I guess my point is that alot of this stuff happens for stupid reasons . If that is the case I don't think it's a good idea to bring a weapon into play . Of course there is no way to know for sure , but my rule is to always try & talk my way out of it NO MATTER WHAT you have to get over the anger . If you do come to the conclusion that the attack is on a more serious level you have to make sure that you are ready to finish the job . I don't think any of us would ever want to be in that position . So draw your weapons wisely . BTW most of my MA training is with weapons , but the more I train the less likely I would consider pulling a weapon . It really is a no win situation . I guess sometimes there is no other way , but I think you have to try extra hard to find other answers . Who knows , it might just be a matter of taking a few lumps .

:asian: Frank

You bring up some very good points Frank! I agree that using a weapon is not always the best choice and is something that certainly will need to be justified. I also agree that talking your way out is very important. I guess where I was going with my last post was, if its needed its good to know that there are options around us. Not so much a pencil to stab someone, but simply kicking or throwing some dirt or sand, some change in your pocket to simply create a slight distraction to aid in our escape.

Regardless of whatever road we choose to go down, we still need to remember that our actions will be judged by the law.

On a side note: We have discussed quite a bit about the use of weapons, but to look at the other side of the coin, how are people training for the empty hand defense? What has been added to ones training for mult. attacker defense, stress/adrenal dump training, etc.?


Mike

 

[Knarfan]

You bring up some very good points Frank! I agree that using a weapon is not always the best choice and is something that certainly will need to be justified. I also agree that talking your way out is very important. I guess where I was going with my last post was, if its needed its good to know that there are options around us. Not so much a pencil to stab someone, but simply kicking or throwing some dirt or sand, some change in your pocket to simply create a slight distraction to aid in our escape.

Regardless of whatever road we choose to go down, we still need to remember that our actions will be judged by the law.

On a side note: We have discussed quite a bit about the use of weapons, but to look at the other side of the coin, how are people training for the empty hand defense? What has been added to ones training for mult. attacker defense, stress/adrenal dump training, etc.?


Mike

Hey Mike,
I agree with your advice . In your origional post you didn't really mention any life treatening weapons . I was probably talking more about the use of extreme force . I agree with you , sometimes it may be a good idea as an equalizer . Hopefully the people that are attacking you realize that you are just trying to survive . Also your advice on the additional training stress/adrenal dump is a must . I do alot of that type of training myelf . It not only makes you aware of what the effects of extreme stress are , but it will also make you alot more confident & relaxed . Good advice all the way around Mike !

:asian: Frank

 

[47MartialMan]

A.) You bring up some very good points Frank! I agree that using a weapon is not always the best choice and is something that certainly will need to be justified. I also agree that talking your way out is very important. I guess where I was going with my last post was, if its needed its good to know that there are options around us. Not so much a pencil to stab someone, but simply kicking or throwing some dirt or sand, some change in your pocket to simply create a slight distraction to aid in our escape.

B.) Regardless of whatever road we choose to go down, we still need to remember that our actions will be judged by the law.

C.) On a side note: We have discussed quite a bit about the use of weapons, but to look at the other side of the coin, how are people training for the empty hand defense? What has been added to ones training for mult. attacker defense, stress/adrenal dump training, etc.?

Mike

A.) Very much agree.

B.) How true. been in "court preceedings" on two cases.

C.) Nowadays, people know about empty hand defense. A lot is now common knowledge and street-smarts. Perhaps back in the "Old West" or "Roaring 20's-30's-40's", Asian martial arts, or or the like, will look extraordinary

 

[MJS]

Hey Mike,
I agree with your advice . In your origional post you didn't really mention any life treatening weapons . I was probably talking more about the use of extreme force . I agree with you , sometimes it may be a good idea as an equalizer . Hopefully the people that are attacking you realize that you are just trying to survive .

I don't carry a knife or gun, so when it comes to an extreme situation as you mention, I'd have to rely on empty hand or anything nearby that I can get my hands on.

Also your advice on the additional training stress/adrenal dump is a must . I do alot of that type of training myelf . It not only makes you aware of what the effects of extreme stress are , but it will also make you alot more confident & relaxed . Good advice all the way around Mike !

I think that this (adrenal stress training/scenario training) is probably one of the most overlooked areas of some arts. Unfortunately, if these people get into a situation, I would hope that they're able to react under that pressure. Having the chance to attend one of Peyton Quinns camps would give a very good example of this type of training. However, that same training and results can be attained just by using a little imagination, without having to fly to see him.

Very good discussion! :ultracool

Mike

 

[Laborn]

All you guys say that to run is the first option, my instructer, he has told me some stories of fight's he's been in, where he's faced 2 guys, he told me this one story where he got a gang after him and he had to defend him self from 12 people, he said to go after the biggest, meanest of them all, cause that shows the others that if you're not afriad to take on that big oner, then you're not afriad to take them on, which puts doubtin them, which means they make more mistakes, i dont know if he said he ran, lost, or won, cause som,eone came in when we were talking, i doubt seriously that he won, but, my point is, i think it's posible to fight off multible attackers who are bigger, it depends on the persons skill

Laborn

 

[Laborn]

I consider my self a good fighter, not good good, but you know, average, i fought a guy named calvin last friday, he was tough, he was a big guy, but his speed was amaizing, he'd been tournament fighting for 10 years, been in taekowndo for 12 years. Me and a few bbs fought him, and he beat us all and my instructer said he was going easy opn us, * my instructer had seen him fight at tournaments* that guy was so fast, there was no possible way to avoid his kicks, and i couldn't kick him, that guy, i think he could easily beat 2 bigger attackers, he hits like a bowling balls, and he was so fast

Again, i think it depends on the persons skill

Laborn