How would you deal with multiple attackers who are bigger?

[Tony]

I pray that this situation will ever arise in my lifetime! but who knows where my next journey will take me, and the evil that exists out in the world!
I would certainly like to practice sparring with multiple attackers in Kung fu, but this is something we don't do a lot! But I will run if I could!

 

[loki09789]

My military, kenpo and FMA background and training would help me in these types of situations much like the rest of you are mentioning, in terms of tactics more than technique. Obviously my strike/block/evasive movement training would come in handy, but the tactical level of training would be the most helpful. Of course the run thing is the best and first option, but if it is not immediately available:

Angling is part of Kenpo/FMA, as well as maneuver warfare training as opposed to taking a fight head on everytime.

Taking this Angling concept to tactical application for this scenario, I would keep moving, but at ANGLES that would make the attacker(s) either stack up in front of me or stretch out - either way they could not concentrate their efforts or coordinate multiple attackers to be effective at the same time.

Like in a team sport, when a zone in their formation collapses I would either take advantage of this to first make an escape, break up an attacker or two, or if nothing else is available just use it as a time killer to catch my breath and regroup for the next wave...

To have any margin of success I would have to really tap into other aspects of my training such as FOCUS/CONCENTRATION, CONTROL, ... you get the idea. I like some of the other tactics mentioned as well.

 

[loki09789]

Oh Yeah,

backyard football/baseball come in handy when I am zinging rocks, sticks and anything else I can find at the me too

 

[8253]

1) Run; if you cannot, see 2-5

2) Let them know quickly you're not a victim, you're going to fight hard and mean--it may not be worth the fight

3) Take out the perceived leader in the most quick and decisive way possible, "with extreme prejudice"

3) Line 'em up, keep moving, use them against each other

4) Use carried/environmental weapons

5) Make lots of noise if you think it might summon assistance.

excellent advice. I expecially like number 3 %-}

 

[psi_radar]

Yep, both #3's are good (whoops)! I think you're talking about the first one, which is my personal favorite as well. If you take out the leader (who is not always the biggest one) it'll sap the motivation of the rest, since the attack was probably his idea anyway.

 

[TonyM.]

I ran, but not before getting a broken rib, bruised kidney and the bottom of my chin slashed with a switchblade.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I have been in this situation, and while concentration and focus definitely matter, they are difficult to muster while getting pounded from multiple directions. My answer: Brutal chaos. Screw stances...if you don;t keep moving, they'll all target you at once...they don't wait their turns like in the movies.

Next, start swinging, and keep swinging. Heck, they're swinging at you...at least swing back and get your licks in before you get drilled. (send them home with a reminder that you showed up).

Most importantly, resolve yourself to recieving injury, and in the face of that knowledge, detertmine to cause some of your own.

4 Guys: Popped #1 in the nose with an overhand right, and broke it...he paused to bleed; at same time, #2 was tackling me from behind. Spun to recieve him in my guard, and threw him in a choke (whacked the back of my head on the asphalt)...missed the carotids, but got the trachea. #3 comes up and starts kicking me in the head with his combat boots, bloodying nose and mouth, breaking a tooth, and blacking an eye before I can disentangle myself from #2 and get upright (trached him hard first, so he wouldn't follow). #3 is unpleasantly large (they all are, but #3 really stands out). I crash into his advance throwing a flurry of everything I can to anything thats open...only a few face and groin shots connect well, before #4 joins at my 5 o'clock. Fancy moves don't work, and #4 and I tie up in a clinch. I get in a couple elbows to the head and knees to the thorax that chop him down like a tree, but not before a recovered #3 bull-rushes me from the side and taked us both a**-over-teakettle over the top of a thick hedge. I'm on the bottom, face up, with one of his arms barred in a joint lock, but can't get the leverage for a break because my shoulders aren't actually touching anything to brace against. He hit's me liberally with his free arm. I apply more pressure to his elbow, which brings he and I to a draw. He actually tells me to stop hurting his arm, and I reply I'll be happy to if he stops hitting me in the face. Very civil man. #1 has recuped, and is quite angry, saying he wants the big guy to hold me there till he gets his "9" out of the car. Horrible realization: I'm spent, and at a mechanical disadvantage to initiate an escape, attack, bupkiss. God smiles on me: the large man says no, that I fought well, and that they just needed to collect their guys and go (#2 still retching in the gutter from the trachea impulse). I love marines. So honorable.

Leads me to my final recommendations:
1. Look unassuming (I was walking a small, cute poodle with my girlfriend...always a sign of somebody looking for a fight)
2. Count heavily on the good graces and mercy of others...literally saved my life.
3. Physical conditioning can not be over-stressed...my life was in very real danger, and I was done. I was too wiped to think of a trick to get up, and it didn't matter...I was to toasted energetically to have implemented it.

So, kids, stay out of it if you can, and if you can't...Hit First, Hit Hard, Hit Fast, and keep hitting until you or they are finished.

Until we meet again in the place where we are all one,

Dr. Dave

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Please allow me to clarify. While I can probably...maybe...technically get away with saying, "I fought 4 large Marines to a draw", the reality is that I lost. Had it not been for the gentle heart of one of the guys, his buddy's homocidal intent would have ended with a bullet in my head. Additionally, while I did "gack" one guy with a trach shot and break another guys nose, I was quite ugly. I was lucky in that they did not have knives, or I'm sure I would have been knifed horribly. I'm sure they were all sore the next day, as I did get some good shots in, but I think I was by far the most facially swollen of the group, not to mention the knots on my head from boots, the ground, and fists. Got a broken tooth, bloody nose and very black eye, but no broken bones (maybe the nose, but it's so shmushed from sparring, no one can tell).

I've not walked away from a fight in a very long time, but if I had it to do over again, I would walk away from that one. On the flip side, I sure did learn a lot about the differrence between theory and application, and I'm not sure I would trade that knowledge for anything.

Martial artsists can generally be classified into two groups: those who have fought, and those who have not. My life choices have placed me in the "have" category, but the fist full of advil I take daily for my training and combat injuries makes me wonder if it's worth it. Might have been better off in the long run staying in the untested Ivory Tower group.

D.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

I would deal with multiple attackers who are coming at me my
first by keeping distance
second taking out my duty weapon and warning them.
If they still came at me i would start putting them down. Usually taking out your weapon settles them down and if that doesnt work shooting one usually does. Multiple knuckleheads act tuff until they see one of their boys drop from a gun shot wound then they run since they know they are prob. next.

The escalation of force is brought to deadly because of the numbers of people and the fear for my life or fear of recieving bodily harm.

If i didnt have my duty weapon. I would run if i could. But, if i couldnt i would not let them surround me and try to control the environment and take them out.

Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

i dont care what people know. You can be the fastest tuffest guy out there the more attackers the greater your chances are of being serious hurt or killed. Its one thing to practice it in the dojo or studio. But, out on the street when you are dealing with someone there are so many factors and the environment is different too.
Also, you dont know what they know or what types of weapons they might have too. The best thing to do if you can is Run.....


Chicago Green Dragon

:asian:

 

[Tony]

Please allow me to clarify. While I can probably...maybe...technically get away with saying, "I fought 4 large Marines to a draw", the reality is that I lost. Had it not been for the gentle heart of one of the guys, his buddy's homocidal intent would have ended with a bullet in my head. Additionally, while I did "gack" one guy with a trach shot and break another guys nose, I was quite ugly. I was lucky in that they did not have knives, or I'm sure I would have been knifed horribly. I'm sure they were all sore the next day, as I did get some good shots in, but I think I was by far the most facially swollen of the group, not to mention the knots on my head from boots, the ground, and fists. Got a broken tooth, bloody nose and very black eye, but no broken bones (maybe the nose, but it's so shmushed from sparring, no one can tell).

I've not walked away from a fight in a very long time, but if I had it to do over again, I would walk away from that one. On the flip side, I sure did learn a lot about the differrence between theory and application, and I'm not sure I would trade that knowledge for anything.

Martial artsists can generally be classified into two groups: those who have fought, and those who have not. My life choices have placed me in the "have" category, but the fist full of advil I take daily for my training and combat injuries makes me wonder if it's worth it. Might have been better off in the long run staying in the untested Ivory Tower group.

D.

How was it you found yourself in that situation? I mean had you unknowing provoked one of them? or was it a random attack?

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

How was it you found yourself in that situation? I mean had you unknowing provoked one of them? or was it a random attack?

In all honesty, probably a little bit of both. In an evening walk near the base, they were imbibing in their car in a parking lot next to the sidewalk. They started the engine, and (I'm assuming for kicks) gunned the car as if to hit my girlfriend and I, stopping just short of us. I thought it was so funny, I flipped them the bird and let out a string of blessings at the top of my lungs. They collectively responded, and it was on.

Windows were tinted, or I would have used discretion as the better part of valor (I like to think, but maybe not...my temper and my big mouth have gotten me in a lot of trouble over the years). So I guess it was a little of each; they didn't need to zip up towards our legs (I moved out of the way, saw my sweetie and the poddle did not, and so moved back as a potential buffer for impact...driven by testosterone and instinct to protect, not by any delusions of my own indestructability), but I didn't need to respond with a vociferous string of provocative expletives.

Namsate!

Dr. Dave

 

[Athena]

i had a class when i was about 10 that dealt with more than one attacker. they told us to keep everyone in a line and deal with them one at a time, and i do remember sparring 3 guys pretty effectively. i have no idea if it would work in real life, though, because i can't remember how hard we went. i know that i always gave my 110% (ha), but i don't know how things would have been different if they'd been pumped up on adrenaline and ready to beat me to a bloody pulp. also, when i was 10 i was more athletic than almost every guy i knew. oh how the mightly have fallen...

 

[Skyline22]

Hello, I'm new to the boards.. and I thought I'd add in a bit on this subject. I seem to see a lot of "run" theories, which is well and good..but if you can't run, has anyone checked into the Indonesian fighting arts, specifically Silat Serak? It's weapons based form essentially, but multiple opponents is a huge factor.. the assumption is that in combat, your assailants will be more numerous, stronger and armed.. I've spent a long time trying to find an art that was combat oriented and not showy or flashy.. most I've dealt with, had too much wasted motion in them, and that makes me sick.. in a real combative situation, an attacker will not allow you a time out so that you can assume a proper fighting stance... the stance you use, is the stance you are in when attacked, whether it's standing, in a chair, or on the ground... For multiple opponents, and defense against weapons, I'd recommend Pukulan Pentjak Silat Serak to anybody, any day of the week. The only arts I've seen that equal it, stem from other areas of southeast asia, especially the filipino arts such as Kali, Arnis and Escrima.. they are in fact, Filipino variations of silat. There are over 150 styles of the art, Serak just happens to be my choice. Check it out!!

 

[loki09789]

I have been in this situation, and while concentration and focus definitely matter, they are difficult to muster while getting pounded from multiple directions.

Agressive, decisive action makes a lot of sense, but to clarify something, sustained concentration and focus are a by product of conditioning - both physical and mental. Train the mental endurance through constant practice. Train the physical endurance so that fatigue takes longer to set in, therefore prolonging the unavoidable 'fog of war' or exhaustion that comes with stress. Physical conditioning is important, but as part of a comprehensive package. If might doesn't make right anywhere else, it doesn't make sense in as part of a training regiment focus. The military uses the term technically and tactically proficient. Fitness is a separate component. Relative to the total man hours of training, PT focus is a regular part of training, but it is a smaller percentage of the total package than technical/tactical development.

Watch, someone will interpret this as "I don't think fitness is important"

 

[TonyM.]

This is all pretty silly. Unless your talking about two or three people, in a larger multiple assailant scenario your going to get pounded into a bloody pile of goo. If your lucky you may run to a safe zone, but with multiple attackers they will probably catch you. At least by running you may wind them to shorten the beating. Been there, done that. From my experience I can assure you that the stories of yesteryears heroes defeating large groups of people unarmed are false.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

This is all pretty silly. Unless your talking about two or three people, in a larger multiple assailant scenario your going to get pounded into a bloody pile of goo. If your lucky you may run to a safe zone, but with multiple attackers they will probably catch you. At least by running you may wind them to shorten the beating. Been there, done that. From my experience I can assure you that the stories of yesteryears heroes defeating large groups of people unarmed are false.

Hear, hear. The wisened, skinny guys who insist they could take 8 bruisers by keeping them in a line or aiming for the groin, eyes, or knees, have yet to be attacked by 8 bruisers. As I said before..until you've been there, it's all just ivory tower academics.

 

[moving target]

Well if you practice running, you train to run, than I think you do have a good chance of putting some distance between you and the majority of the group. If 1 or 2 can run you down, than for at least a short amount of time you only have 1 or 2.

But I don't know how you would line up 8 guys unless they were all morons.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I know there was a thread on dealing with some one bigger and multiple attackers but its a whole new affair when the gang of attackers are much bigger and stronger than you, how would you all fair with such a threat?

It it were me I would run like Linford Christie!

Two the chest of the first one, then one to the head.

Site in on the second one, repeat.

Listen to whimpering pleas of third attacker, accept his surrender.

Secure pistol before cops arrive.


Regards,


Steve

 

[scorpio]

I have to agree with the group advocating a full out sprint to cause some seperation. If caught than fighting with any and every means possible is the only option. I have been on the recieving end of a multiple attack, three guys jumped me while I was riding my bicycle. I was 17 years old and had a fair amount of experience in one on one fighting. Unfortunately being surrounded by three guys while straddling a bike was a whole new ballgame. Before I could even lift my hands off the handlebar I was punched in the face, requiring multiple stitches when I regained conciousnes. If it wasn't for a passing motorist I probably would have had my head stomped in!
All this sage advice on "lining them up" and "taking out the leader is a load of B.S.
When the adreneline starts pumping, and reality becomes distorted you can't think out a game plan, not to mention that these attacks usually occur over seconds. Save the macho heroics for the movies and avoid, evade and fight like a cornered animal if all else fails.

-Yours in Kenpo