Helping Students Deal With Bullying

[Gerry Seymour]

Are we accepting as fact a top ten list from a random website trying to sell a product that references as source material the author's other websites?

Danger, Will Robinson.

Much of what he says is in line with what I have found from studies (he refers to some of the peer-reviewed research, though I didn't look to see if he cites any specifically).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That problem is the fault of the previous instructor. The current instructor, the OP I think will do a good job of rectifying the problems. Once that is sorted so a lot of other things will fall into place for the child.

When people are suggesting 'fights' it might be as well to remember the age of the child, eleven as well as the sad background he has.

It's quite possible that's a result of previous instruction. It might also be something akin to PTSD (similar process, probably not quite the same result), where the situation feels too much like something that happened when he was bullied.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

you can't expect someone to have confidence in something when they don't have or trust their ability

I don't think this says what you mean it to, JGW - it sounds circular. "You can't expect someone to have confidence in something when they don't trust their ability." The problem for folks with low self-esteem is that they rarely trust their ability (except their ability to judge themselves critically).

 

[Tarrycat]

Confidence can have a lot of power over thoughts. I don't believe it's a marketing strategy at all.



To be quite honest, my martial arts & my horse riding has helped a lot with my confidence. I never had confidence problems before, however, it certainly did aid in building it further along the way.



It's true that if you get more competent in something, you feel better about yourself, because you've fulfilled one of your needs as as a martial artist, you've achieved a specific goal (this will be categorised in the "self-actualization" needs, in the Maslow's hierachy of needs model).



In my own experience, competence is the driver of confidence. The better you become at something, the better you see yourself in your own eyes - you realise that you are actually CAPABLE of doing anything. You start to see yourself in a unique light, instead of comparing yourself to other people.



As this boy grows & becomes better at what he's doing in your classes, he will grow in his confidence daily. It IS a process though..



I'd say that perhaps one of the first things he should do is make some friends within the Taekwondo community, if he can. As another person on here said, his Taekwondo classes should be his break so-to-say from reality.



This will reassure him that there are people out there who care about him & want to see him succeed - a strong support system is necessary for a child in this situation. It's necessary for every individual, but more so in his case.



I would also start with self-defense drills so that he at least can be confident in defending himself if ever someone intends to hurt him in any way - I'm not certain how this works in Taekwondo & how broad the curriculum is surrounding self-defense in particular (I was always under the impression that a lot of the kata in Taekwondo is mostly designed for sport, but please enlighten me if I am wrong), but if he can do with more knowledge, perhaps pair him up with someone who specialises in self-defense tactics. Knowing how to defend himself, I think, is top priority.



As soon as he's familiar with these techniques & knows how to do them competently, you can start to introduce him to the rest of the techniques. By then, he will already feel better about himself, because he then knows how to defend himself.



As far as addressing teachers, I'm not exactly certain. Teachers, I have at times observed (in other countries), sometimes fail to actually LISTEN to the child's concerns in a lot of ways, they overlook it conveniently. The only advice that I can think of is if the boy's father attempts to arrange a serious meeting with the principal & the boy's teachers... Also, perhaps they can then in this meeting, talk about giving some of the seniors some authority to observe their school's environment for bullies, so that they can stop fights among students, & then address this to their teachers (as a different control strategy). Obviously some form of positive reinforcement is necessary in order to motivate the seniors to do something like this. Every senior then deserves an honorary mention, & a certificate (or any form of incentive) as a symbol of bravery.



Every school needs an anti-bully policy as part of their system.



The problem is, kids want to feel cool & in control, they think that the only way to feel like this, is by bullying others. They need to be taught that helping or serving others, & adding value to their lives, is what truly makes you a powerful being. Then again, you will always have an issue with bullies, because not everyone thinks alike, or has a similar home life. Usually bullies are children with problems too. I hope the school has a psychiatrist for the children as part of their policy? I know ours did, we never had any serious problems with bullying; bullies were dealt with immediately & called into the principal's office.



Good luck..*

 

[Tez3]

It's just that you can't expect someone to have confidence in something when they don't have or trust their ability.

I'm thinking you really didn't read what was written by the OP or myself. Why would you think we are expecting a child to have confidence when his experiences are with a poor instructor, bullying and a difficult home life. The one part that can be sorted more easily is the poor martial arts instruction he had before, that's our professional expertise ( I hope!). Given someone a good experience in class, teaching well and with respect are something a good instructor can do to help mend the bit that was damaged by poor instruction. It will go towards building confidence in class and with martial arts which in turn will help with the confidence building in every day life.

That's a partnership experience between the instructor and the student. Part of it is on the student the other part is on the instructor. It's not something anyone can do on their own. The instructor has to provide correct instruction.

The problem was the previous instructor obviously wasn't giving proper instruction hence the reluctance to spar etc. I'm confident that the child is at the start of a new journey in martial arts now though.

 

[Tarrycat]

The obvious problem with coming late into a thread is that you have read the OP and jumped straight to your reply without reading any other posts. Perhaps you should look up 'over confidence'.



No that's not the problem at all, re-read the OP. The child has been let down by a previous martial arts instructor. The bullying issue is a side one which complicates the issue but isn't the issue.




As I said you haven't read any other posts and have come in thinking you have the answer, coming in with quite a belligerent attitude too.

Ohhh, I see now.

It's embedded within the child's memory & his senses, & he now carries the feelings, as well as the memories shared with his previous instructor on to the next...

Perhaps then work with the boy in stages, so as to gain his trust & to work with him as more of a mentor. It seems from the situation that it's going to be a timely process.

That's all I can think of, really...

I didn't actually read through the thread, so I may have missed some important details.

 

[Steve]

Much of what he says is in line with what I have found from studies (he refers to some of the peer-reviewed research, though I didn't look to see if he cites any specifically).

I didn’t see any citations other than to his other website. And I’m leery of any sales site masquerading a science by default.

Accepting this kind of stuff without question is how myths are born. For example, that you need to sear a steak to lock in the juices. Or that vaccines cause autism.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't think this says what you mean it to, JGW - it sounds circular. "You can't expect someone to have confidence in something when they don't trust their ability." The problem for folks with low self-esteem is that they rarely trust their ability (except their ability to judge themselves critically).

I'll try again.

There are 2 types of confidence

1. Confidence from thinking that you can do something
   
2. Confidence in knowing that you can do something.

We often grow the first regardless if a child actually has the ability. While this works for a majority of the time. It's not a good fit for self-defense because sometimes you have to fight no matter if you want to or not. How well a person fights back is highly dependent on #2. It doesn't matter if it's non-physical or physical violence. If the child does not have the ability to handle the situation then it doesn't matter how much confidence he has, he will still fail because he is only able to do so much.

I think low self-esteem has more to do with the value one sees within himself / herself. It has very little to do with confidence. I see confidence more about how we feel about our capabilities and abilities. Self-esteem is the root of how we see ourselves and helps to determine what we can and cannot do.

In the black American community, it's common to hear mothers tell their children 3 things. Don't let anyone call you stupid. Don't let anyone disrespect you. If someone hits you then hit them back. I don't know how it is in other cultures, but it was very common when I was a kid. These things were taught to children to help them know they were of value no matter what others say about them. Self-love goes a long way.

Historical Reference: at 3:10 "to develop within ourselves a deep sense of somebodiness. Don't let anyone make you feel that you are nobody. Because the minute someone feels that way, he is incapable of rising to his full maturity as a person.."

Even though that part of the speech was directed to black Americans it applies to humans in general. This is a self-affirmation

If the child is having self-esteem problems, then that needs to be addressed first before trying to tackle self-defense. In my opinion self-esteem is more important than confidence. Self-esteem will help a person stand strong even when there is no confidence.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'll try again.

There are 2 types of confidence

1. Confidence from thinking that you can do something
   
2. Confidence in knowing that you can do something.

We often grow the first regardless if a child actually has the ability. While this works for a majority of the time. It's not a good fit for self-defense because sometimes you have to fight no matter if you want to or not. How well a person fights back is highly dependent on #2. It doesn't matter if it's non-physical or physical violence. If the child does not have the ability to handle the situation then it doesn't matter how much confidence he has, he will still fail because he is only able to do so much.

I think low self-esteem has more to do with the value one sees within himself / herself. It has very little to do with confidence. I see confidence more about how we feel about our capabilities and abilities. Self-esteem is the root of how we see ourselves and helps to determine what we can and cannot do.

In the black American community, it's common to hear mothers tell their children 3 things. Don't let anyone call you stupid. Don't let anyone disrespect you. If someone hits you then hit them back. I don't know how it is in other cultures, but it was very common when I was a kid. These things were taught to children to help them know they were of value no matter what others say about them. Self-love goes a long way.

Historical Reference: at 3:10 "to develop within ourselves a deep sense of somebodiness. Don't let anyone make you feel that you are nobody. Because the minute someone feels that way, he is incapable of rising to his full maturity as a person.."

Even though that part of the speech was directed to black Americans it applies to humans in general. This is a self-affirmation

If the child is having self-esteem problems, then that needs to be addressed first before trying to tackle self-defense. In my opinion self-esteem is more important than confidence. Self-esteem will help a person stand strong even when there is no confidence.

I agree with the basic premise. Part of the issue for (at least some) people with low self-esteem is that they don't have confidence even where there is competence. There is a psychological process at play that exaggerates failures, overestimates external criticism, and fails to acknowledge success.

Now, that's not to say that what you are suggesting is ineffective. We just have to be aware that competence alone doesn't breed confidence in that given area. Often, having a specific goal to reach to, then working a plan to reach it, has a specific effect. I suspect it's just harder to downplay or ignore that success, because there's a definite before/after measurement. It's not a magic pill, obviously (they won't suddenly be confident), but it is part of the process. Appropriate acknowledgement from outside sources can help, too, though (as I think one of the links someone posted earlier said), overdone or overly general praise can actually have a negative effect.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why would you think we are expecting a child to have confidence when his experiences are with a poor instructor, bullying and a difficult home life. The one part that can be sorted more easily is the poor martial arts instruction he had before, that's our professional expertise ( I hope!).

Both can be done at the same time and I'm saying this from experience of having to do it.

Youth development centers in the U.S. have been addressing those issues for the longest. The centers serve as a second family that they can visit when things at home get tough. The staff usually serves in a big brother /sister or mother / father capacity in terms that child's development. They deal with bullying and home life all the time. If you can be a "family member" for a child then you can improve that child's life greatly. People in those roles actually have a better opportunity than the actual parents because there are things that kids aren't comfortable talking about with their parents.

 

[Tez3]

If the child is having self-esteem problems, then that needs to be addressed first before trying to tackle self-defense. In my opinion self-esteem is more important than confidence. Self-esteem will help a person stand strong even when there is no confidence.

No, you are reading this the wrong way round. The problems come from bullying, a bad family background and a poor martial arts instructor. The OP has asked for advice on how to do what he can in his class to help this child. There is nothing he can do about helping a child with a lack of self esteem outside his class so your points whether valid or not don't apply. A martial arts instructor does what they can in their class, they are not responsible for any more than that. so, building confidence in the class, building the student's confidence in the instructor as well as the techniques is the instructor's goal here.

I disagree that self esteem gets you through a situation because you need confidence in yourself to carry things through. It doesn't actually matter what you think about yourself as long as you have confidence in yourself. thinking you are wonderful isn't going to help you a lot in any situation.

There is only so much an instructor can do in the couple of hours ( if that) a week one sees a child so instructing well, taking small steps with less confident students, building up confidence in the techniques in small increments is the way to go. It sounds grand all the psychology about self esteem etc but we can only do what we can and as long as e do it well we are doing our bit to help in what is a large problem.

 

[Tez3]

Youth development centers in the U.S. have been addressing those issues for the longest.

Are you saying no other country can deal with these problems?

If you can be a "family member" for a child then you can improve that child's life greatly. People in those roles actually have a better opportunity than the actual parents because there are things that kids aren't comfortable talking about with their parents.

This is far from what the OP asked though, you are widening the discussion so much it's not giving the advice he wanted. We are martial arts instructors who have a student for an hour or two a week not therapists. As I keep saying we do the best job at what we do, we teach sympathetically and with respect, we bear in mind the child's problems and hopefully we contribute to his recovery and ultimate well being.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Part of the issue for (at least some) people with low self-esteem is that they don't have confidence even where there is competence.

That's because the self-esteem has to be addressed first.
This is the same thing that I was trying to get across when I said not trusting in one's own ability.

We just have to be aware that competence alone doesn't breed confidence in that given area.

In situations like this then it's not an issue about competence or confidence. It's an issue about self-esteem and that has to always be addressed first. So the question is: Does the child have low self-esteem? If he does, then the effort should focus on improving and solidifying his self-esteem / self-value /self-worth. Drop the focus on the confidence and address the self-esteem issue first. "I AM SOMEBODY." it's a start. Shape his mind.

 

[Tez3]

In situations like this then it's not an issue about competence or confidence. It's an issue about self-esteem and that has to always be addressed first. So the question is: Does the child have low self-esteem? If he does, then the effort should focus on improving and solidifying his self-esteem / self-value /self-worth. Drop the focus on the confidence and address the self-esteem issue first. "I AM SOMEBODY." it's a start. Shape his mind

That is a job for a professional therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist plus his family. The OP was asking what he can do in his martial arts class.
It's an issue about bullying, family problems and an incompetent previous instructor not specifically low self esteem.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Are you saying no other country can deal with these problems?

Nothing in his comment said anything about other countries. He spoke of a specific institution that exists in the US, because that's the system he knows of.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There is nothing he can do about helping a child with a lack of self esteem outside his class

We used to do field trips, movie nights, board games, card games, video games, and study groups. Everything didn't have to be about having a formal youth development experience. We often just did normal things. The main Jow Ga school up north does the same thing even though they aren't a youth development center. They meet up outside of class times and do things together either at the school or they meet up at places like Laser tag. If the parent's can't take them but they want the child to go, then someone picks that child up. This allows the child to be around peers who care and respect him. It helps to set expectation on his value.

If the OP doesn't have the capabilities to do this then he should really direct him to a group that can provide this.

A martial arts instructor does what they can in their class, they are not responsible for any more than that.

Jow Ga instructors are different. If you are part of our school then you are part of our family and our responsibility doesn't stop at just the class. Once you are a part of our school you become a reflection on our school. If you care about someone's well being then you help when you can and sometimes that means outside of class. If all you see is a paying student then most likely you won't take any additional steps beyond the class. Either way is fine, neither right or wrong. But I can show you instructors who care and help their students beyond martial arts class.

t doesn't actually matter what you think about yourself as long as you have confidence in yourself. thinking you are wonderful isn't going to help you a lot in any situation.

It always matters what you think of yourself. You should always love who you are as a person and stand firm to that. You should always see value in your existence and that you should be respected. Self-esteem isn't about telling yourself or thinking you are wonderful. It's about you being of value in society, that you have a place, and right to be. It's about accepting who you are as a person along with your flaws and still believe that you are important. That you are of value in society. It's about you not only understanding that it's your right to be respected, but to also demand that you be respected as a human and as of value. It's the only thing that keeps you from feeling like trash, and unwanted.

There is only so much an instructor can do in the couple of hours ( if that) a week one sees a child so instructing well, taking small steps with less confident students, building up confidence in the techniques in small increments is the way to go. It sounds grand all the psychology about self esteem etc but we can only do what we can and as long as e do it well we are doing our bit to help in what is a large problem.

Improving self-esteem is not a fast process. It's a much longer process than learning a technique and it demands consistency. If a brick falls from the wall of your self-esteem, then you must repair it. There are no big and fast steps in developing self-esteem.

Are you saying no other country can deal with these problems?

The reason I said the U.S. is because I don't know what other youth development centers in other countries do. So I only speak on what I know and that's would be how youth development centers run in the U.S. Why would I speak about youth development centers in other countries when I'm not familiar with what they do or the approaches they take with the development of the youth.

We are martial arts instructors who have a student for an hour or two a week not therapists.

You don't have to be a therapist to deal with issues like this. You only have to understand where your can help and where your limits are. If there is a limit then get someone to fill in that gap. Have a guest speaker come in to do what you aren't able to do or to provide the knowledge skill sets to deal with the issue. Every problem doesn't have to be solved or even addressed directly by the instructor.

So if you don't can the capabilities to address this issue then simply partner with an organization that does. Have that person come and talk to the kids once a month. Have guest speakers who are popular talk about what it was like when they had to deal with bullies when they were kids. Have someone from the youth development field to sit in and help balance the conversation. You don't always have to try to solve a problem by yourself. Especially when it comes to kids. Hence the saying "It takes a village to raise a child"

 

[JowGaWolf]

That is a job for a professional therapist/psychologist/psychiatrist plus his family. The OP was asking what he can do in his martial arts class.
It's an issue about bullying, family problems and an incompetent previous instructor not specifically low self esteem.

Not everything takes a PhD to make a difference.

• You can do something about bullying, but only if he has good self-esteem.

• You can't do anything about family problems except provide a place where he can have a break from the family by being a place where he can build quality bonds with other people with the hopes that some of these people will be like family. And as an Instructor take advantage of teachable moments Reference:

• If he's no longer with an incompetent instructor then that issue is no longer an issue.

 

[Tez3]

Not everything takes a PhD to make a difference.

• You can do something about bullying, but only if he has good self-esteem.

• You can't do anything about family problems except provide a place where he can have a break from the family by being a place where he can build quality bonds with other people with the hopes that some of these people will be like family. And as an Instructor take advantage of teachable moments Reference:

• If he's no longer with an incompetent instructor then that issue is no longer an issue.

PhD? Hardly.

I think a good right hook might do better than 'good self esteem'. Self esteem doesn't stop people bullying you, it may stop it affecting you so much but people can still bully you.

The point about this thread is that it's about martial arts, no more, no less. It's not a martial arts instructor's job to fix self esteem or confidence, it's our job to teach good martial arts in a positive and competent way. The side effects of that are increased confidence and self esteem somewhat, for some it will be more than others. The rest is for those outside to fix. Your insouciance in saying that if he's no longer with the bad instructor there's no issue amazes me, as there clearly will be issues arising from bad teaching.

We used to do field trips, movie nights, board games, card games, video games, and study groups

That's fine for you but we are talking about everyday martial arts classes who don't impinge on people's private lives as much as your group seems to. Most martial schools/clubs stay withing their area of expertise...martial arts.

If the OP doesn't have the capabilities to do this then he should really direct him to a group that can provide this.

Not his responsibilities, that's for the family to do. He is the child's martial arts instructor not his guardian. You could find families finding exception to this sort of interference as they would see it. People send their children to a class to learn martial arts, not be counselled etc.

Improving self-esteem is not a fast process. It's a much longer process than learning a technique and it demands consistency. If a brick falls from the wall of your self-esteem, then you must repair it. There are no big and fast steps in developing self-esteem

Why are you addressing this to me ie 'you'. I'm find, I have an inordinate amount of self esteem and more than my fair share of confidence. I've never had a brick fall out of my self esteem. I think you seem to misunderstand a martial arts instructors role in the process, it's important but not the focus of any process.

So if you don't can the capabilities to address this issue then simply partner with an organization that does. Have that person come and talk to the kids once a month. Have guest speakers who are popular talk about what it was like when they had to deal with bullies when they were kids. Have someone from the youth development field to sit in and help balance the conversation. You don't always have to try to solve a problem by yourself. Especially when it comes to kids. Hence the saying "It takes a village to raise a child"

Parents don't pay a martial arts class for this and I wouldn't foist it on children who come to me to learn martial arts. It would be extremely arrogant to assume the children you teach are in need of all of this and that the parents send their children to have this. The children are there to learn martial arts, your part is to teach them and do it well treating them with respect and patience. No one is trying to sort this by themselves, I'm assuming you haven't read very much of this thread because you've gone down a track no one else is and are lecturing us for whatever reason.

 

[ravenofthewood]

It's quite possible that's a result of previous instruction. It might also be something akin to PTSD (similar process, probably not quite the same result), where the situation feels too much like something that happened when he was bullied.

Thank you for this comment; I wouldn't be surprised if this actually was part of the issue. Being an HSP myself, and able to identify with that aspect of Johnny's situation, I feel rather silly that I didn't think of this myself.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

PhD? Hardly.

I think a good right hook might do better than 'good self esteem'. Self esteem doesn't stop people bullying you, it may stop it affecting you so much but people can still bully you.

The point about this thread is that it's about martial arts, no more, no less. It's not a martial arts instructor's job to fix self esteem or confidence, it's our job to teach good martial arts in a positive and competent way. The side effects of that are increased confidence and self esteem somewhat, for some it will be more than others. The rest is for those outside to fix. Your insouciance in saying that if he's no longer with the bad instructor there's no issue amazes me, as there clearly will be issues arising from bad teaching.



That's fine for you but we are talking about everyday martial arts classes who don't impinge on people's private lives as much as your group seems to. Most martial schools/clubs stay withing their area of expertise...martial arts.




Not his responsibilities, that's for the family to do. He is the child's martial arts instructor not his guardian. You could find families finding exception to this sort of interference as they would see it. People send their children to a class to learn martial arts, not be counselled etc.




Why are you addressing this to me ie 'you'. I'm find, I have an inordinate amount of self esteem and more than my fair share of confidence. I've never had a brick fall out of my self esteem. I think you seem to misunderstand a martial arts instructors role in the process, it's important but not the focus of any process.



Parents don't pay a martial arts class for this and I wouldn't foist it on children who come to me to learn martial arts. It would be extremely arrogant to assume the children you teach are in need of all of this and that the parents send their children to have this. The children are there to learn martial arts, your part is to teach them and do it well treating them with respect and patience. No one is trying to sort this by themselves, I'm assuming you haven't read very much of this thread because you've gone down a track no one else is and are lecturing us for whatever reason.

Tez, in fairness, some parents are looking for schools that do exactly this sort of thing. It is something many martial arts schools advertise (as someone mentioned earlier), and they advertise it because parents like it. And while some parents do not want a school that gets more involved, there are many who like that personal involvement from martial arts instructors, sports coaches, clergy, school counselors, and others where it isn't strictly "their job". My only admonition is that someone advertising such should make an effort (backed by some learned knowledge) to actually deliver.