Helping Students Deal With Bullying

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you for this comment; I wouldn't be surprised if this actually was part of the issue. Being an HSP myself, and able to identify with that aspect of Johnny's situation, I feel rather silly that I didn't think of this myself.

If that is the case, what may help is finding ways to make sparring activities (and the drills you use to get closer to it) more fun (or even silly, if that suits his personality) for Johnny.

 

[ravenofthewood]

I'd say that perhaps one of the first things he should do is make some friends within the Taekwondo community, if he can. As another person on here said, his Taekwondo classes should be his break so-to-say from reality.

This will reassure him that there are people out there who care about him & want to see him succeed - a strong support system is necessary for a child in this situation. It's necessary for every individual, but more so in his case.

Exactly. We have really been emphasizing this in his class lately--for everyone's benefit. His classmates are the only ones who trained extensively with the previous instructor, my lower belts did not, so we have been working on them learning my expectations and that I will not tolerate behaviors which were allowed in the past. He gets along well with those who have been training with him all the way through, but we recently gained two transfer students who have made life more interesting.

I would also start with self-defense drills so that he at least can be confident in defending himself if ever someone intends to hurt him in any way - I'm not certain how this works in Taekwondo & how broad the curriculum is surrounding self-defense in particular (I was always under the impression that a lot of the kata in Taekwondo is mostly designed for sport, but please enlighten me if I am wrong), but if he can do with more knowledge, perhaps pair him up with someone who specialises in self-defense tactics. Knowing how to defend himself, I think, is top priority.

Self defense is a separate, extremely integral part of our curriculum. Our poomse (kata) do have self defense applications, such as teaching awareness and combinations of moves which are useful in general self defense situations, but we do not have bunkai (is that the correct term?). I do often point out to students how different moves in poomse can be applied to self defense situations, however.

 

[drop bear]

Exactly. We have really been emphasizing this in his class lately--for everyone's benefit. His classmates are the only ones who trained extensively with the previous instructor, my lower belts did not, so we have been working on them learning my expectations and that I will not tolerate behaviors which were allowed in the past. He gets along well with those who have been training with him all the way through, but we recently gained two transfer students who have made life more interesting.





Self defense is a separate, extremely integral part of our curriculum. Our poomse (kata) do have self defense applications, such as teaching awareness and combinations of moves which are useful in general self defense situations, but we do not have bunkai (is that the correct term?). I do often point out to students how different moves in poomse can be applied to self defense situations, however.

A friday night social barbecue works really well to turn students in to friends.

 

[ravenofthewood]

We used to do field trips, movie nights, board games, card games, video games, and study groups. Everything didn't have to be about having a formal youth development experience. We often just did normal things. The main Jow Ga school up north does the same thing even though they aren't a youth development center. They meet up outside of class times and do things together either at the school or they meet up at places like Laser tag. If the parent's can't take them but they want the child to go, then someone picks that child up. This allows the child to be around peers who care and respect him. It helps to set expectation on his value.

If the OP doesn't have the capabilities to do this then he should really direct him to a group that can provide this.

Jow Ga instructors are different. If you are part of our school then you are part of our family and our responsibility doesn't stop at just the class. Once you are a part of our school you become a reflection on our school. If you care about someone's well being then you help when you can and sometimes that means outside of class. If all you see is a paying student then most likely you won't take any additional steps beyond the class. Either way is fine, neither right or wrong. But I can show you instructors who care and help their students beyond martial arts class.

That is really neat that you are able to do that with your students. We have various activities throughout the year (parades, Christmas party, Pro-D day camps, etc.), but not as organized as that sounds.

Unfortunately, I don't have the resources or the authority to implement and run something like that. I certainly care for my students and don't merely see them as dollar signs. I would love to be more involved with them, but I am only able to participate in their lives as much as I am invited to do so by the parents. It is their job to raise their children, not mine. I just have to do the absolute best I can for each child in the time I have them.

 

[ravenofthewood]

This may be what you're suggesting with the drills, but if not I have an idea to help 'build him up' to sparring. Like you said, have specific drills, but rather than sparring, phrase it as having them practice those specific drills on a partner that is resisting, while the partner is trying the same. So, rather than him thinking of it as sparring, he thinks its just another drill. Then add more drills, and before he knows it, you're informing him that what he's been doing for the past X amount of days/weeks has actually been sparring.

Thank you for your suggestion! He has no issue with the sparring drills themselves; it's just the full, sparring-oriented class he objects to.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you for your suggestion! He has no issue with the sparring drills themselves; it's just the full, sparring-oriented class he objects to.

If that's the case, getting him more used to sparring should go a long way toward him being ready to go back to that class. Just make sure he's in a position to do well in it when you suggest he goes back. One thing that might help is to occasionally run a small portion of the regular class (when he's in it) very much like the sparring class. Get him used to the environment he'll return to there.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It is their job to raise their children, not mine.

I have heard this all through my adult life and people wonder why kids are so screwed up these days. I'm not saying that this reflects on you, because I don't know you as a person. I'm just pointing out how often I've heard it and the changes that has occurred to youth during the same time this statement became popular.

I personally can't understand it because I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone looked out for each other and the kids of the neighborhood. It was a community and that's what a community does.

 

[Tez3]

Nothing in his comment said anything about other countries. He spoke of a specific institution that exists in the US, because that's the system he knows of.

It didn't sound like that however, as part of his long lecture it sounded very much like he was saying 'only in the USA'.



You have martial arts schools that are daycare centres, something that wouldn't be allowed here as well as having far more school input into children's lives than would happen outside the US. I was watching the news here on the BBC when they were talking about the Las Vegas shooter and the US etc. A professor said that we don't understand that the USA is a very different country from the UK, we think we because we speak English and watch American programmes we do things the same but we are actually very different. One of those differences is the way we view bringing up children especially in view of mental health. We would not expect sports instructors, churches or even teachers to be involved in our children's lives to the extent that Americans seem to. We don't have summer camps and we wouldn't expect counsellors etc to come to a martial arts class etc in the way mentioned.

but I am only able to participate in their lives as much as I am invited to do so by the parents. It is their job to raise their children, not mine

This is exactly how we'd expect it to be here. People would be horrified to find others interfering in their children's lives to the extent mentioned before.

I have heard this all through my adult life and people wonder why kids are so screwed up these days. I'm not saying that this reflects on you, because I don't know you as a person. I'm just pointing out how often I've heard it and the changes that has occurred to youth during the same time this statement became popular.

The vast majority of children are NOT screwed up, the vast majority lead perfectly normal lives doing fantastic things in sports, activities, school etc. labelling them as being screwed up makes them think they are and they really aren't. A friend of mine a military psychiatric nurse was on deployment with the Americans in Afghan, he said the prevailing attitude with the Americans was that 'everyone has something wrong with them mentally', if you think you haven't you are just in denial, that everyone needs therapy. Well, that's a screwed theory, you are telling people they have mental health issues that need to be sorted instead of telling people they are strong enough to deal with difficult but normal circumstances that arise in life. If your grandparent dies of old age that is part of life and you need to deal with the sadness not rush off to a counsellor for therapy. Bullying needs to be sorted in a proper manner, bullies punished and children taught to stand up for themselves, don't make them mentally weak by telling them they lack self esteem and confidence which needs so much 'special' treatment. A counselling culture is bad for people especially children.[/QUOTE]

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have heard this all through my adult life and people wonder why kids are so screwed up these days. I'm not saying that this reflects on you, because I don't know you as a person. I'm just pointing out how often I've heard it and the changes that has occurred to youth during the same time this statement became popular.

I personally can't understand it because I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone looked out for each other and the kids of the neighborhood. It was a community and that's what a community does.

Neither of the neighborhoods I grew up in were nearly that communal. I think it's a good thing some are, but I wonder how many people our age grew up in such communities. From what I saw, it was more common among poorer people, but I don't know if that was common.

I do think it is better societally - and probably for the child - when people take some responsibility for helping children. We (a global and rather vague "we") often have a notion that raising kids is a parent's job. But very few parents are properly prepared for it. People who make a practice of helping kids over many years become very good at the part of that they work with over and over, and can be of great help to parents. Those youth development centers often have folks like that in them.

 

[oftheherd1]

I have heard this all through my adult life and people wonder why kids are so screwed up these days. I'm not saying that this reflects on you, because I don't know you as a person. I'm just pointing out how often I've heard it and the changes that has occurred to youth during the same time this statement became popular.

I personally can't understand it because I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone looked out for each other and the kids of the neighborhood. It was a community and that's what a community does.

I don't think I want to get involved in the back and forth of this thread that has occurred so far. I think there has been some good and advice, and even it not as good as I might think it should be, most I am sure has been well intentioned.

That said, I think there is a lot of truth in what you say here JowGaWolf. When and where I grew up, people did get involved. Even if an adult didn't know a kid, they likely would admonish the kid for bad behavior. That doesn't seem to get done much anywhere these days. I think some of it has to do with our litigious society. If they knew the child, not only would they admonish a child, if it was serious enough, they likely would tell the child's parents. As an aside, if a child got in trouble in school and some punishment (detention, then called having to stay after school, or spanking, the parents would be informed. If the infraction was serious enough to warrant a spanking at school, another might be waiting at home.

I think it helped children feel there was more accountability in the world. That is something I think I see lacking. The idea that every little Johnny and Suzy should be allowed to do whatever they want as part of healthy growing up and learning to express their personality doesn't seem to be working out will.

@Tez3 There is an undercurrent of everyone who has any kind of problem probably needs therapy in the US. But it really isn't quite as strong as it seems like your friend made it sound. Assuming she was probably talking to other psychiatric personnel, they may have been speaking from their experience of being gainfully employed. I am not against professional therapy being available and utilized. In fact, I think professionals being able and willing to involuntarily commit people to institutions might help those committed.

But no easy solutions.

@ravenofthewood I would still appreciate an answer about details of the time he fought back and got into trouble for it.

 

[Balrog]

Unfortunately, this same lack of confidence caused Johnny to quit sparring classes; he felt overwhelmed and like he was getting "beat up" all the time. But, yes, I can definitely see other areas where he has grown that I can point out to him. Thank you!

Johnny is eleven. One other thing I neglected to mention is that he was being bullied all last year and didn't tell anyone about it. He then reacted quite violently one day after the bully gave him a bloody nose and a black eye, and got in major trouble because of it. This year, however, he's in a different school, without that past history, and his teacher and the administration know what is going on.

He needs to get back into sparring class, period. That is the biggest confidence builder.

And if he's jumped by a gang of four, the best he can do is to pick one of them and hurt that guy as badly as he can. That will reduce it to three and the others might back off. Otherwise, rinse and repeat.

 

[Tez3]

Assuming she was probably talking to other psychiatric personnel, they may have been speaking from their experience of being gainfully employed.

He and he was treating American service personnel some of whom had mental health issues but many who didn't but had been referred by the MOs because of the thinking that everyone had issues and needed some sort of therapy. If your best mate is blown up in front of you yes you may need some sort of professional help to deal with it, if your dog dies of old age you don't, you mourn and move on.

 

[Steve]

I don't think I want to get involved in the back and forth of this thread that has occurred so far. I think there has been some good and advice, and even it not as good as I might think it should be, most I am sure has been well intentioned.

That said, I think there is a lot of truth in what you say here JowGaWolf. When and where I grew up, people did get involved. Even if an adult didn't know a kid, they likely would admonish the kid for bad behavior. That doesn't seem to get done much anywhere these days. I think some of it has to do with our litigious society. If they knew the child, not only would they admonish a child, if it was serious enough, they likely would tell the child's parents. As an aside, if a child got in trouble in school and some punishment (detention, then called having to stay after school, or spanking, the parents would be informed. If the infraction was serious enough to warrant a spanking at school, another might be waiting at home.

I think it helped children feel there was more accountability in the world. That is something I think I see lacking. The idea that every little Johnny and Suzy should be allowed to do whatever they want as part of healthy growing up and learning to express their personality doesn't seem to be working out will.

@Tez3 There is an undercurrent of everyone who has any kind of problem probably needs therapy in the US. But it really isn't quite as strong as it seems like your friend made it sound. Assuming she was probably talking to other psychiatric personnel, they may have been speaking from their experience of being gainfully employed. I am not against professional therapy being available and utilized. In fact, I think professionals being able and willing to involuntarily commit people to institutions might help those committed.

But no easy solutions.

@ravenofthewood I would still appreciate an answer about details of the time he fought back and got into trouble for it.

I thin tez is about 20 years behind on this subject, and she’s trying to drag her entire country back with her.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

I really fell bad for johnny I experience bullying too in Elemntary through Highschool the only way to cope with that is to joined a martial arts School it can build you self confidence SElf ESteem self control etc and once he has that he will be good he just needs to be focus and in sparring its good for him too so he will know when the opponent is goona hit but make sure he has his guard up. know if you bully is bullying you on your way home and not in the school grown call the police and those kids will be charge they will learn their lesson or go out before they come out s they dony have to bully you

 

[ravenofthewood]

I have heard this all through my adult life and people wonder why kids are so screwed up these days. I'm not saying that this reflects on you, because I don't know you as a person. I'm just pointing out how often I've heard it and the changes that has occurred to youth during the same time this statement became popular.

I personally can't understand it because I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone looked out for each other and the kids of the neighborhood. It was a community and that's what a community does.

Quoting JowGa's post here, but this is really an overall response to everyone who has weighed in on the community issue.

This is a cultural thing, though, as I believe Tez3 is saying. While it may be the case in the US, and you might find the attitude you are advocating in rural communities in Canada, it is unheard of in Canadian urban culture, especially on the West Coast. I agree with gpseymour that often parents aren't prepared for every challenge they face with their children, but people can only be resources for parents as far as the parents allow/ask them to (cases of abuse, negligence, and neglect obviously excluded). Educators are part of a team with the students' parents, but every well-functioning team has a leader who directs the rest of the group. As the progenitors and legal guardians of the students, parents have this role of leader. Any other person on that team, therefore, is invited by the parent and only has as much influence on the raising of the child as they are granted, whether school teacher, counsellor, doctor, or martial arts instructor.

While a child is in my dojang, he is in my sphere of influence. That is my opportunity to influence and mold him to grow up to be a moral person and a responsible citizen. As soon as he leaves my dojang, I no longer have any direct control over his life, unless his parents invite me to be more involved. It is none of my business (again, abuse, etc. excepted) how they raise their child, unless they ask for advice. I agree with oftheherd that children don't experience enough accountability nowadays. Will I tell a parent if their child is demonstrating behaviour issues in class? Definitely! Do I expect that the parent will follow up my in-class consequences with consequences of their own? Yes. That is part of working as a team with the parent. Anything that does not happen while under my supervision, however, is none of my business, and parents would strongly resent my further involvement without invitation.

This is especially the case with the vast number of children of immigrants that I work with. Their families have their own familial, cultural, and religious communities which help them to raise their children in the degree of communality their culture expects. They don't want my white, Canadian cultured interference. They bring their children to me so I can teach them martial arts, so I teach them martial arts and do everything I can to show those children that I care about them during the time they are in my class.

I hope this helps to understand the limitations I face in being able to help Johnny. His dad has invited me to participate in dealing with the issue within the dojang, but no more than that.

I hope to be back later to answer other posts, but it is Thanksgiving weekend here, and I am quite busy.

 

[oftheherd1]

He and he was treating American service personnel some of whom had mental health issues but many who didn't but had been referred by the MOs because of the thinking that everyone had issues and needed some sort of therapy. If your best mate is blown up in front of you yes you may need some sort of professional help to deal with it, if your dog dies of old age you don't, you mourn and move on.

Apologies for the incorrect gender reference. I did see your pronoun 'he' but somehow that slipped in.

Well I have been out of the Army for a while. Looks like we have gone from denial to everyone getting referals.

 

[oftheherd1]

I thin tez is about 20 years behind on this subject, and she’s trying to drag her entire country back with her.

I am guessing that was tongue in cheek, at least I hope so. I expect what she says works in her country or she wouldn't say it. I meant to compliment her on the suggestion that a good right hook has its place.

 

[Tez3]

I am guessing that was tongue in cheek, at least I hope so. I expect what she says works in her country or she wouldn't say it. I meant to compliment her on the suggestion that a good right hook has its place.

I had to look to see what you were talking about, I should have known. Please bear in mind that that poster does his best to belittle, bully and abuse me every chance he gets hence why he's on ignore. His personal attacks have been reported by me several times as this one will be. it's a shame I had to look this time, it's akin to being bitten by a gnat, slightly annoying but of no consequence in the great scheme of things.

However you were quite correct, it was a tongue in cheek comment as much as I do like thumping people.
The high rate of suicide among ex and serving military has caused the powers that be to worry and demand that anyone with suspected mental health issues be referred to mental health services.

 

[Steve]

I am guessing that was tongue in cheek, at least I hope so. I expect what she says works in her country or she wouldn't say it. I meant to compliment her on the suggestion that a good right hook has its place.

When you use an anonymous “friend” story as a way to support a stupid idea that brits need therapy less and Americans abuse it, no, not tongue in cheek. She did this in another thread more specifically about mental illness, and frankly her perspective is ignorant. It promotes the stigma that people need to be sick in order to benefit from counseling. Not only does she have a very damaging perspective, it is out of step with her country, which is struggling with mental health just like the rest of us.

But yes, a good right hook has its place. I applaud you for focusing on the positive.

 

[Steve]

I had to look to see what you were talking about, I should have known. Please bear in mind that that poster does his best to belittle, bully and abuse me every chance he gets hence why he's on ignore. His personal attacks have been reported by me several times as this one will be. it's a shame I had to look this time, it's akin to being bitten by a gnat, slightly annoying but of no consequence in the great scheme of things.

However you were quite correct, it was a tongue in cheek comment as much as I do like thumping people.
The high rate of suicide among ex and serving military has caused the powers that be to worry and demand that anyone with suspected mental health issues be referred to mental health services.

bless your heart.