Hapkido Q&A's

[SmellyMonkey]

Dear Jeremy:

"......I've said before that everyone is allowed their own interpretations of hapkido. Hapkido is different for everyone...."

I think thats a crock, Jeremy. I think thats a load of guff that people have been selling each other so that no one holds another person too accountable for whip-stitching together whatever they want and calling it whatever they want to. You have people practicing all sorts of outlandish weapons including nunchukas and calling what they do "Korean Martial Arts". Is this why people like KMA, because they can do whatever they feel like doing and noone will complain? Over here in the States people will talk about this opinion or that personality and its all judgments. But let somebody step in and start asking for proof of this and that and suddenly conversation sorta dries up. My sense is that folks have gotten accustomed to maintaining a certain level of "wiggleroom" in what they say and do and statements like yours seem to be the gas that keep that trolley running. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bruce (or Kevin, or anyone else, if you wish to answer), if you had 100% power over the world-wide management of hapkido:

1. Then what is the "correct" definition of hapkido?

2. What strikes are and are not hapkido? What kicks? What throws? What joint locks?

3. Is hapkido to remain a static art, or does it evolve? If it evolves, who has the right to evolve the art?

4. Which weapons should be allowed and should not be allowed to be called hapkido weapons?

 

[SmellyMonkey]

Here is my attempt-


1. Then what is the "correct" definition of hapkido?

Hapkido is an art that attempts to balance self defense strategies and techniques with spiritual growth. Depending on your instructor, it can be balanced more towards self defense techniques OR spiritual growth. But hapkido requires both parts.

Hapkido is not just defensive or offensive. It is both.

A hapkidoist must subscribe to the following theories:

a. The water theory. Water always flows to the lowest point. If a hard obstruction is placed in the path, water will flow around the obstruction. If a soft obstruction is placed in the path, water will flow through the obstruction. Therefore, do not fight a grappler with grappling. Do not fight a striker with striking.

b. The circle theory. Circular motion is seen everywhere in nature. All human motion is circular. Even a straight punch involves using circular motion from the hips and shoulder. When examining a technique, we look to see where the circular motion is occuring. And we try to add strength to the circular component. As we learn more, we learn to make the circles smaller-or tighter. This adds speed and strength.

Circular motion is also more difficult for the eye to see compared to a straight motion. A jab is easier to avoid and block then a ridge hand or knife hand strike.

c. The development and use of ki. In hapkido, we meditate and do breathing exercises to develop the ki. When striking, we try to move the ki from the tan tian to the striking point on the striking limb. We try to focus the ki to attack the weakest point of our opponent (see also water theory).

You cannot focus your ki on another if you are not in control of balance. Therefore, you must always try to control your AND your attackers balance during a fight.



2. What strikes are and are not hapkido? What kicks? What throws? What joint locks?

So long as they meet the theories in answer 1., any are acceptable.

3. Is hapkido to remain a static art, or does it evolve? If it evolves, who has the right to evolve the art?

So long as any changes add to and meet the theories in answer 1., the changes are acceptable.

4. Which weapons should be allowed and should not be allowed to be called hapkido weapons?

As long as the weapons are used in a manner that meets the theories in answer 1, any are acceptable.

 

[Disco]

SM, right to the point, I like that. I've shy'd away from most of this thread because in all honesty - my confusion level was somewhat pegged. But now here you present 4 open questions that I'll take a stab at.

1. Then what is the "correct" definition of hapkido?

I'm affraid that nobody really knows. There's to many venues

2. What strikes are and are not hapkido? What kicks? What throws? What joint locks?

Again, who's to say. Choi, according to what was listed a few posts back, only taught about 8 or 10. Other's that came after him added more. Is that unto itself bad. Yes and No.... If the kicks are practical for combat then yes. If their for show and have limited - if any practical value, then no. Just my opinion. For me, any practical strike is a good strike. As for throws, I think they kind of weed themselves out - again the practical value, so most styles tend to agree on throws. Joint locks are another item. Depends if you want to do a lot of ground work. To me groundwork should be minimum, so therefor the number of joint locks will be restricted to wrists and elbows, which by their nature have only so many applications. Again, for me the practical application and assessment has to be there.

3. Is hapkido to remain a static art, or does it evolve? If it evolves, who has the right to evolve the art?

Evolution should be present in every art. The simplist example would be dealing with weapons. When the gun was invented, the arts being used at the time must have adapted to this new threat.

4. Which weapons should be allowed and should not be allowed to be called hapkido weapons?

That's kind of like dealers choice in a way. In my opinion, weapons training is introduced by some just to seperate themselves from other's. The weapon(s) they may choose to teach has no real businees being taught with Hapkido. My reasoning - Weapons that can assist with the mainstay of what hapkido does - joint locks / throws are an outreach of Hapkido training. The cane (hooked) is considered by many the weapon most associated with Hapkido. It does just what it's intended to do. A stick / baton can be used in the same manner. Any weapon that must be forced to try to accomplish the like is not really a weapon of choice and should be discarded imo.

Hope this was of some assistance...... :asian:

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Thanks for the kick list. Both DJN Kim and GM Lim were taught by DJN Choi but they have different numbers of kicks, very similar, said to have been taught to them. Do you have any reason for the difference? For example did GM Lim modify or drop out some kicks that may have been taught originally? Any ideas.


It sounds like GM Kim has added a few to the original 10 kicks. This could be that he used the same kick on different targets.

Does GM Kim do toe spear kick?

Take care

www.millersmudo.com

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Folks:

For the moment-- let us all agree that Hapkido is a Korean art and put the Japanese to one side regardless of who is teaching what, 'kay?

If you accept that premise than it follows that Hapkido, whatever its curriculum, is bound together by Korean culture, and is an integral part of Korean martial science along with all of the other arts, practices and activties. I say this because unless we start identifying those points that we have in common this is not going to go anywhere.

If people can agree with the first point I suggest that a follow-up is that the Hapkido arts are either
a.) a Mu-Do or martial system in which the basic principles apply whether one uses a weapon or not

or

b.) is some distinct art which can be identified as adhering to a select group of principles in its execution, application and deportment. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Todd:

".....Bruce Please don't take offense Bruce but do you see the problem with your reasoning?...."

What I see, Todd, is that you and Kevin and a number of other practitioners want reality to conform to a very specific view of both Korean culture and Korean history. You state that it is natural that the Koreans would want to make something their own, and then call "dead" anything but what YOU happen to be doing. How very convenient for you.

Apparently if every other aspect of Korean martial science is "dead" including the literature, the practice and the research then the only thing that is authentic is what YOU happen to be doing. How very politically and commercially convenient.

I can easily imagine that you do not want to discuss the MYTBTJ and its many traditions because then you would have to network with practitioners such as the Kyong Dang, Ship Pal Gi and even (shudder) Hae Dong Kum Do. Rather than do that you would rather study swordwork that Lim brought back from Japan and now presents for consumption in Korea.

I can easily imagine that you don't want to talk about the relationship of Chinese traditions as they interface with Korean traditions. I pointed out four traditions all of which are as valid as Chois but there is no room for them in your discussion. Those traditions were in Korea long before Choi. How is it that YOU DO NOT show where HIS tradition interfaces with the standing Chinese traditions? They are still alive and practiced with long lineages.

I can easily imagine that you do not want to talk about standing curriculum because apparently Lims' curriculum is still a work in progress unlike the other contributions which are readily identifiable and readily available with no equivocation or delay.

Lastly I find it all but entertaining that you and Kevin are talking from different places regarding Korean culture. Apparently you both want Hapkido to be a Korean martial art. What you do NOT want to do is accept responsibility in the fullest sense for practicing and professing a Korean martial art. There is always that one last qualification that lets you have some wiggleroom just in case you find people are holding you a bit closely accountable for what you teach and what you profess. You only want the art to be Korean just so far as it authenticates what you do and not so far as you are responsible as an actual adept at its values and mores. I can easily imagine that you want everything about Korean martial tradition to be dead---- except that part that serves your personal ends. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[iron_ox]

What I see, Todd, is that you and Kevin and a number of other practitioners want reality to conform to a very specific view of both Korean culture and Korean history.

You, as a professor of Korean culture and Korean History are certainly in a place to tell us that...

You state that it is natural that the Koreans would want to make something their own, and then call "dead" anything but what YOU happen to be doing. How very convenient for you.

Show one of the items you claim is still living with a current tradition.

Apparently if every other aspect of Korean martial science is "dead" including the literature, the practice and the research then the only thing that is authentic is what YOU happen to be doing.

Not a single tradition you mention is connected with Hapkido in any way, through Ji or Choi, Myung Jae nam, no one - and you cannot even prove these "ancient" traditions are still in existence.

How very politically and commercially convenient.

You worry so much about commercial schools don't you. Well hey, didn't you pay to train with Kim, Yun Sang - did you complain about that to him? All training in your eyes should provided free right?

I can easily imagine that you do not want to discuss the MYTBTJ (Dead Book, crappy drawings of Dead traditions, that probably died because they didn't work or got superceeded by better stuff) and its many traditions because then you would have to network with practitioners such as the Kyong Dang, Ship Pal Gi and even (shudder) Hae Dong Kum Do.

I do Hapkido, why the hell do I "need" to network with them?
They don't do Hapkido, they do what they want, good for them.

Rather than do that you would rather study swordwork that Lim brought back from Japan and now presents for consumption in Korea.

Yes, and doesn't try to mask anything. You want to cover the Hapkido tracks with stuff it has NO relation to...

I can easily imagine that you don't want to talk about the relationship of Chinese traditions as they interface with Korean traditions.

You can easily imagine what? When you can prove a RELATIONSHIP, we can discuss it. Wing Chun is Chinese, is it also Korean, how about its relationship to French Cooking - maybe there isn't one...I pointed out four traditions all of which are as valid as Chois (but have nothnng to do with Hapkido in any way) but there is no room for them in your discussion.(They are not RELATED) Those traditions were in Korea long before Choi.(So was Shotokan, and Judo, how are they related?)
How is it that YOU DO NOT show where HIS tradition interfaces with the standing Chinese traditions? Because it doesn't.

They are still alive and practiced with long lineages. Really? Where, who?

I can easily imagine that you do not want to talk about standing curriculum because apparently Lims' curriculum is still a work in progress unlike the other contributions which are readily identifiable and readily available with no equivocation or delay. You are being a bit obnoxious here actually insulting - you gave a list of kicks and got one...the rest is bluster so cool it.

Lastly I find it all but entertaining that you and Kevin are talking from different places regarding Korean culture.
Professor, please enlighten me where?

Apparently you both want Hapkido to be a Korean martial art. What you do NOT want to do is accept responsibility in the fullest sense for practicing and professing a Korean martial art.

Responsibility like making it Chinese, or adding stuff that has no place, or training from a 500 year old book of dead traditions, or working to un-commercialize an art you willingly continue to pay for?

There is always that one last qualification that lets you have some wiggleroom just in case you find people are holding you a bit closely accountable for what you teach and what you profess.

OK, straight BS here, we are accountable to the Choi tradition. WHERE are you accountable? To history (fantasy) books? Who is holding who accountable? I practice the Choi tradition of Hapkido, you will not and CNANOT make that claim. What can you cliam? TO have spen lots of time looking for Mantis Kung FU where it is not? Maybe Kuk Sool Kon is more your cup of tea.

You only want the art to be Korean just so far as it authenticates what you do and not so far as you are responsible as an actual adept at its values and mores.

You are so right, I don't eat kim chee and drink soju with every meal. I would go commit seppuku, buts thats Japanese...

I can easily imagine that you want everything about Korean martial tradition to be dead---- No, but the stuff you "cite" is

Bruce, if I couldn't laugh at this stuff, I'd be insulted. You havbe never proven a link of ANY kind from the short list that you produced. I didn't provide a list of kicks here because in refection, the idea was rather silly to me, how does that prove anything, or demonstrate anything except that so and so did a front kick too.

A relationship is a connection - you FAIL to prove a single connection to Choi with any of your blow hard posts, and as is your typical agenda, proceed to say that the rest of us should prove a link and that we are not KOREAN enough for your taste. You seem to think that a martial art is supposed to encompass an entire cultural tradition - where this ridiculous notion came from I do not know...

Your argument has again failed to produce a single salient point that draws anything you say closer to Hapkido.

 

[howard]

hi bruce,

Dear Todd:

...I can easily imagine that you do not want to discuss the MYTBTJ and its many traditions because then you would have to network with practitioners such as the Kyong Dang, Ship Pal Gi and even (shudder) Hae Dong Kum Do. Rather than do that you would rather study swordwork that Lim brought back from Japan and now presents for consumption in Korea...

bruce, to me you are really beginning to sound very nationalistic and xenophobic (ironically, from a korean perspective)... please convince me that i'm wrong.

and if i'm not mistaken, didn't you post here or on another board a few months back that you intended to visit daegu and train with master lim? what changed your mind, and why do you seem so negative toward him now? simply because he teaches things that have japanese roots?

regards, howard

 

[Barrie]

Dear Todd,

Thanks for the feedback; this thread is going other places but I am still interested in the kick thing and finding out what DJN Choi taught and to whom.

DJN Kim has a rising toe kick to the neck in his 16 but no spinning kicks. He says DJN Choi had photos taken of the techniques he taught in the sequence he wanted them taught, including the kicks and strikes. DJN Kim and his training partner were the models for the photos for the most part. I understand these photos are in his possession along with a lot of other documents. He is a very friendly man and perhaps you could visit and view this material on one of your visits to Korea if you are interested in DJN Choi's various teachings. The curriculum DJN Choi taught DJN Kim has been written down, at least up to 5th degree.

Kind regards,

Barrie

 

[glad2bhere]

OK. Lets take these one point at a time.

1.) ".....Show one of the items you claim is still living with a current tradition....."

The following are living Korean traditions still practiced in Korea.
a.) The Mu Yei To Bo Tong Ji
Is practiced by the Kyong Dang & Ship Pal Gi. Furthermore select forms such as BON KUK GUM BUP and CHOSON SEBUP are either studied by or form the basis for such organizations as HwaRang Gumdo, HwaRang Gum-Bup, and Hae Dong Gumdo. They also continue to be studied by such Hapkido groups as the KUK SOOL WON, HWARANGDO and the Yon Mu Kwan. Stick, Spear, wol do, hyop do, dan bong, soh bong are also infrequently practiced by a variety of Hapkido traditions depending on the guidelines of the teacher.

b.) Archery

c.) Ssireum

d.) Taek Kyon

None of these traditions is DEAD. You may not understand them or you may not know much about them but they were around long before Choi and have in one way or another been integrated into the Hapkido arts by a number of folks. If you still don't know the connection between the Hapkido arts and cane work (which was also practiced by Takeda) or swordwork (which was also practiced by Takeda) or stick work (which was also practiced by Takeda) and yet you espouse a link between Choi and Takeda and Lim teaches Japanese sword there is not much more I can say. If your art is truly Korean as you say you are connected to these traditions.

Furthermore The O-Gae, which has been a philosophical foundation for martial tradition for 1400 years is still used by TKD, TSD, HKD and a host of other arts as the ethical premise for practice. The guidelines for the organization of martial practice has its earliest records in the SAMKUK YUSA of the 14th Century which was 500 years before your Choi was born. If he was truely the Korean national you say he is likewise bound by that code and those philosophies. If you say your art is Korean you are connected by these philosophies.

Furthermore, if your art is valid because a Korean national brought it to Korea for Koreans to train in it is no less or more valid than is any of the Chinese Boxing styles I have identified including Praying Mantis, Tan Tui, Long Fist and Eagle Claw. Your art is connected to these culturally and as there is a significant arguement for Japanese traditions proceeding from Chinese traditions through Korean probably historically. If you can't see this connection it is only because you willfully choose not to. Why don't you look these various arts up and do some research into how they relate to both Japanese and Korean traditions? Is it too much work?

2.) "....You worry so much about commercial schools don't you. Well hey, didn't you pay to train with Kim, Yun Sang - did you complain about that to him?..."

No I didn't complain because nothing he did degraded the integrity of his own art nor the teachings of his teacher. He introduced no politics, and at every turn went out of his way to imbue what he taught with an ethic and a culture that Americans have little appreciation for. Whatever commerce he expressed did not introduce at any time a desire to avoid accountability, sell standing or rank, market himself as something he wasn't or ask for license to make his art some contrived hierarchy of institutionalized power with himself at the top.

3.) ".........I can easily imagine that you do not want to discuss the MYTBTJ (Dead Book, crappy drawings of Dead traditions, that probably died because they didn't work or got superceeded by better stuff) and its many traditions because then you would have to network with practitioners such as the Kyong Dang, Ship Pal Gi and even (shudder) Hae Dong Kum Do.

I do Hapkido, why the hell do I "need" to network with them?
They don't do Hapkido, they do what they want, good for them....."

Thank you for demonstrating how abysmally ignorant you are of the very works you are criticizing. No wonder you can discredit them so freely. What do you know of them? You, who ask for "connections" now ask why you should seek out the very practitioners I supplied you with to experience those connections. You practice swordwork and report that it is purportedly a mixture of Japanese and Korean sword. Don't you want to connect with people who train in only Korean sword? Isn't that what you asked for--- connections? Well I am giving you connections. Weapons that are used in Hapkido and other places in Korean tradition. Emptyhand techniques that are used in Hapkido and other Korean traditions. Philosophy and ethics that have guided every other activity----- somehow does not apply to the "Korean" art you practice-----aren't these the connections you asked for? No mask, here. These are legit traditions, but you would rather import Japanese material and call it "Korean". You would rather have everyone believe these traditions are dead so you can sell the traditions you favor more easily.

4.) "..... You are being a bit obnoxious here actually insulting - you gave a list of kicks and got one...the rest is bluster so cool it......"

No. There IS no insult. This is flat out a question quite to the point. Every Hapkido student I know now, or have known, knew the basic kicking curriculum within monthes of starting their training. Every major kwan I know has published a basic curriculum and that includes Kim. The report is that Lim studied with Choi for 22 years and Todd has been with Lim more than a few years. Whats the problem with laying out the basic kicking material? I was with Kim for 12 days and had his basic kicking material down and laid it out along with four other traditions in less than an hour? Whats the story about this?

5.) "......OK, straight BS here, we are accountable to the Choi tradition. WHERE are you accountable? To history (fantasy) books? Who is holding who accountable? I practice the Choi tradition of Hapkido, you will not and CNANOT make that claim. What can you cliam? TO have spen lots of time looking for Mantis Kung FU where it is not? Maybe Kuk Sool Kon is more your cup of tea......"

WELL, AT LONG LAST...... about time you finally got to this point.

Lets see. Choi learned something (but we are not sure what), from someone (though we are not sure who) and its standard curriculum was never recorded--- not once--- in its entirety as a single tradition--- not once in over 30 years. It comes from another country but you want it to be Korean---- but not beholding to Korean tradition or culture and NOW you tell me that you are accountable regarding this non-specific and unrecorded art to a person who is no longer alive!! Excuse me. Let me hear one more time.

WHO??? is it that is living in a fantasy?!?!

What is apparently most important to you is the very thing that I mentioned many posts ago. All that matters is that you can make some sort of claim ("..... I practice the Choi tradition of Hapkido, you will not and CNANOT make that claim. ....") that will simply authenticate what it is that you want to sell. Has nothing to do with the integrity of the art. It has to do with the ability to one-up the competition in the marketplace.


Now, how about YOU answer some of my questions?

How come you won't identify whether you practice a Korean or Japanese art?

How come its so important to you to make sure that Lims tradition occupies a singularly exclusive place that neatly avoids accountability to either a Japanese OR a Korean authority?

How come everytime I give you information all you do is ask for more information? When are YOU going to start doing research and answering these questions for yourself. Why are YOU not finding these connections for yourself. The information is out there. Why do I have to spoon-feed this material to you. How come Lim isn't teaching you about these connections instead of teaching you Japanese material? FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[glad2bhere]

".......bruce, to me you are really beginning to sound very nationalistic and xenophobic (ironically, from a korean perspective)... please convince me that i'm wrong.............."

I can't convince you that you are wrong. You are going to see what you want to see. What I am writing is in simple defence of a Hapkido that deserves being spoken for.

I have read way too many times about Hapkido according to some personality, or Hapkido as a Japanese tradition, or Hapkido as a focus of evolution. There is Hapkido which is almost all kicks, and there is Hapkido which is indistinguishable from Aikido. There is Hapkido that is purportedly taught to Special Forces and Hapkido thats puportedly taught to Children. There is Hapkido that uses rope, and stick and sword, and spear, and cudgeol and staff and emptyhand. But when I pipe-up and ask people to actually stand-up for Hapkido as a Korean martial tradition with documented practice and a standardized curriculum and an integrated place along with the other martial traditions suddenly how is it that people start back-pedaling like crazy? A guy could be forgiven for concluding that folks would rather blab about the image of Hapkido than allow themselves to get pinned-down about what it really is!

".......and if i'm not mistaken, didn't you post here or on another board a few months back that you intended to visit daegu and train with master lim? what changed your mind, and why do you seem so negative toward him now?..."

The answer is simple. I train according to the spirit of the kwan. If I do not have the trust of the people with whom I train or they do not have my trust there is no training and there is no kwan----- just people doing stuff in the same room. I was invited to go to Taegu. The person who invited me to go had reservations about me and I backed-off against the time that a better relationship might develope. No big mystery, just people being people. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[howard]

hi bruce.

not so. i'm going to see what's there. i wish that were always what i wanted to see, but often it's not.

not everybody has preconceptions that bias their perception of reality.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Howard,

Thanks for clarifying your position.

For myself, I will stick with my position as well. If there is room for the liberal and even outlandish in the Hapkido arts, there is room for the conservative as well. I don't pretend that my take on the Hapkido arts is anymore or less popular or palatable than anyone elses. I do believe that it needs to be considered and expressed as well as any other interpretation of the Hapkido arts. If there is room for the likes of Pelligrini, Lee, Ji as well as a whole host of "new Hapkido" traditions there is room for someone such as myself who pushes for a a singularly greater focus on the Hapkido arts through the lens of other standing Korean traditions. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[howard]

...If there is room for the likes of Pelligrini, Lee, Ji as well as a whole host of "new Hapkido" traditions there is room for someone such as myself who pushes for a a singularly greater focus on the Hapkido arts through the lens of other standing Korean traditions.

bruce, i definitely agree with that.

regards, howard

 

[Master Todd Miller]

The curriculum DJN Choi taught DJN Kim has been written down, at least up to 5th degree.

GM Lim has his curriculum written down as well. I believe up to 4th dan. DJN Choi was a member of the Jungki Kwan after he closed his dojang in 1976. I just got done watching a video of DJN Choi performing some of our blue belt requrements on GM Lim. I am wondering what GM Kim's curiculum looks like as in Son Mok Paegi, Son Mok Sool, Uh Bok Sool excet.

Take care :asian:

www.millersmudo.com

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Todd:

I suppose I could try to describe the techniques right here on this Net, but it would be the hapkiyusool material as seen through the eyes of a yu sool practitioner. Not sure that would do it justice. Now, Jarrod has invited you to experience Dojunim Kim first hand, and I think that Barrie has done the same. And you will be in Korea next year and only an hour from Taejeon. Wouldn't it just be easier to come to Gumsan or Taejeon next time you are in Korea and experience the material for yourself? I am going back to Korea next May (Please God) if there is no way I can get to the Australian event (depends on scheduling right now). Seems like this would resolve a lot of questions. I had thought that I might be interested in what Lim is doing but after various exchanges I think that what I have found with Kim moves in a direction much closer to how I see Hapkido coming together for me. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Bruce,

I would like to see GM Kim at some point but my focus is GM Lims material as he was DJN Chois longest running student it makes more sense for me to focus my energy there but if it works out that I can visit GM Kim I will make an effort just to see his take on the Founders material.

When will you be hosting GM Kim here in the USA?

www.millersmudo.com

 

[Barrie]

Dear Todd,



It would be very interesting and informative if you were to visit DJN Kim Yun Sang as you are in a position to objectively compare his teaching to that of Gm Lim.



My interest is in discovering what DJN Choi taught and to whom, rather than the personalities themselves, interesting and talented though they are. To me this is the way to explore DJN Choi’s art and philosophy. It is entirely possible that Choi taught different students different things above his basic or core material, extras if you like, much as his teacher, Takeda is said to have done. If this is the case then he would have been merely mimicking his teachers methodology.



With this in mind it would be useful to examine and compare the material taught to his senior students (both curriculum and philosophy), how they interpreted it and what they now teach. The students of most interest would be those that DJN Choi graded highly, whose names are recorded in the records that were held by his son’s wife (after they were both dead) and are now in the possession of DJN Kim along with many other relevant documents. Assuming that Choi graded students according to ability and mastery of his art, the rank he conferred is of more relevance than the length of time in training although they are obviously related.



The students we might study include DJN Chan Chin Il, Gm Ji, GM Lim, Master Rim, DJN Kim, and GM Lee Young-Su amongst others. We have very good information about GM Ji’s curriculum, and that of DJN Kim and while there are similarities, they also differ in the detail (as you would be well aware). Both gentlemen have extensive oral histories of DJN Choi that tell us about his philosophy. Unfortunately Gm Lee Young- Su (9th degree, DJN Kim’s training partner) died last march, but I believe one of his students teaches in Texas ( Master Yang Seung-kyu) who may shed light on his master’s teachings. No doubt others will suggest other students that could contribute to the search.



If we remain objective in our researches, and put aside the personalities, we may eventually learn the essence and breadth of Choi’s art and philosophy.



There may be other avenues to explore also and we should continue to look for them.



The people of interest are getting old and it would be a pity to lose any opportunity to mine their knowledge.



I hope you find the time and the objectivity to make the most of any contact you have with DJN Kim.



Kind regards,



Barrie

 

[Master Todd Miller]

If we remain objective in our researches, and put aside the personalities, we may eventually learn the essence and breadth of Choi’s art and philosophy.

If the opportunity presented itself I would be interested to meet GM Kim. GM Lim is my teacher and I am more than satisfied with training with him. There are many Masters that train at the Jungki Kwan that were students of DJN Choi so I have meet with others along with GM Lim that were taught by DJN Choi.

Just a side not why does GM Kim call himself Doju Nim? The Founder gave that title to GM Chang, Chin Il and he is still alive as far as I know.

I will let you know the next time I go to Korea. You should do the same and train with GM Lim. I am sure there will be similarities.

Take care

www.millersmudo.com

 

[Black Belt FC]

Greeetings,

Hi everyone came by to see whats new and by the looks of things heated debates are underway.

Has anyone heard about GM West being invited to lead the US Kidohae? Wondering if this is he say she say.....
Lugo