Hapkido Kwans

[whalen]

personal explanation about the KHF event in October, Florida
Writer : Sung-Book Bae__([email protected])
I am Sung-Book Bae. Before beginning to explain the recent incident and the KHF event in October, I have to express both of my thankfulness and regretfulness to Hapkido people who were there.

Before the event in October, I had made it clear to Master Hackworth that the KHF official event was only the Dan test exam, not the Hapkido seminar. And I requested Master Richard Hackorth many times to give me the information and the names of participants before the event.

My intention was to prepare and give each participant a kind of "Participating Certificate" with a letter of gratitude for coming, no matter it is worthy or not to them. Even till now I don't know who and what they are. On December 12, I got the list of participants by e-mail from Master Hackworth. Only the names.

There might be some regrets and mis-understandings among participants who thought or expected a kind of seminar. However, that event was only for the Dan test. And consequently I was not given the opportunity, there I hoped to meet masters from other organizations and to discuss with them about their joining or cooperation with the KHF.

Some kinds of mis-understanding and possible cultural differences between American way and Korean way in doing business and expression.

Up until now, from overseas, All Dan applications are sent by certified individual masters for their students. So, for that job I planned to set up branch offices and representatives in countries where Hapkido is practiced by many people. I searched appropriate KHF masters who have abilities of organizing people and have some social influences where they live.

During that, Master Hackworth applied for that representative-ship and suggested to have a seminar and Dan test for people who live in America. He has been working as a legitimate master of the KHF for a decade. So I accepted his proposal and said that if he showed his ability in that event he could be appointed as a representative as he wanted.

Till that time, the KHF was not much interested in overseas events and had poor information about Hapkido in America, except knowing some senior masters living there. Anyway, even though there were some complaints from some masters, the KHF decided to have a event in America, showing the KHF willingness to go abroad.

I think although the event was not quite successful, it was an inevitable experience one organization has to face to land a place where some masters had been working individually in their own names(for ex. issuing their own certificates, memberships, and etc.) or without legitimate reporting systems to their headquarters.

I know many Hapkido people are victimized by dishonest masters. So, I'll do my best to relieve people who have practiced Hapkido and want to have relationship with the KHF. I'll prepare some supplementary systems to help them.

Though my personal explanation could sound like a mere excuse, I just hope to show what happened in that event and backgrounds of recent incidents.

Sung-Book Bae

 

[Disco]

The "Real" KHF site has an interesting post. An officer of the KHF Korea (Mr. Bae?) posted a message referencing that the KHF is/was in the process of determining a candidate for the position of U.S. rep to the KHF. To me this means that Mr. H was never, even though he claimed to be, an official rep for the KHF. This has been going on for many years, which everybody now knows. This brings another question to the surface. Surely for the number of years that this has been ongoing, the KHF wants people to believe that they never knew anything about Mr. H's dealings? I find that very hard to believe. Just too many people have had certificates issued and from my understanding, in 1999 this issue was previously brought to light but nothing seemed to have been corrected. Me thinks this may run somewhat deeper than just Mr. H.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Disco:

I think you have hit upon the bain of this KHF mess in particular and the commercial approach to KMA generally. There is a great deal of money to be made selling rank, selling certification, selling seminars, etc. Some people actually do it rather well and when things roll along--- money this way, paper that way---- nobody looks too closely. However, sometimes there are glitches in the system and when that happens everyone is dutifully "horrified" to find out that there were such behaviors going along in the first place.

I hope you don't think for one minute that the folks in Korea didn't know that all of this was going on, that our "star GM" didn't understand what he was doing, or that the people who purchased their standing didn't know what THEY were doing. Everyone from OH See Lim on down would have been the first to tell you that everything was on the up-&-up and that the suspicions of outside observers were unfounded. The ranks were a genuine measure of peoples' technical skills. The standings and organizations as represented were recognized by everyone cited. The organizations were of such repute and influence in the KMA community. It takes more than a website, a printed curriculum and a fee scale to make an organization and EVERYBODY knew that. There was simply a general agreement that noone would look at the entire situation TOO closely.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

I see where the "STAR" of the show has made an appearance over at the KHF site. His role now has him playing an accuser. He came on stage and just blasted Mr. Bae and other's. So by his words, everybody in Korea does it, soooooooo..........!:idunno:

I'm affraid that because their all turning on each other:argue: the actual point in question will most likely pushed aside:-offtopic and in the end the winner of the toilet fest will just turn to all and go:moon: Just seems how these things go. The people that got screwed will probably be given something by the KHF to make them go away. Ain't nothing but a piece of paper anyway. and everybody will go their merry way and all will be forgotten in 6 months, until it erupts again in a couple of years. I thought this happened already in 1999?

Just having too much fun with all the smilies.:rofl:

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Maybe this is a little off topic, but there has been talk for years about the KHF and how they distibute "power and rank". A quick search, really quick, turned up no less than 3 people in the last 10 years that have claimed to be the US rep for the KHF. James Garrison, Hal Whalen, Richard Hackworth - that was a quick search.

Now, some of the KHF folks calim they were unaware of all that was happening, and thought they were attending a conference on Hapkido in Florida...sorry, that doesn't fly. The thing was advertised for almost a year, and it was clear what was being sold - a chance to train with top men in the KHF. Even if it were a conference, why did the KHF brass attend only an hour or so total for the whole event?? Sorry, I don't care whose protocol is in question, but if you want to call a conference then at least attend it...

In addition, how many native english speakers are there at the KHF? I know at least one, and Mr. Bae's English seems pretty good to me - so know one in Korea knew?? How about all the other guys that have used the KHF name over the years? Did they miss them too?

We have even been traeted to posts that assert that the Koreans really don't care about America. Right, who cares, we only have 5 or 10 people here doing Hapkido. Uh-Huh...

I can tell you from my own experience that the KHF really cares a lot about the rest of the world, and whenever they are given the chance they jump to send people to foreign countries and leave dan grades behind - I've seen it in the United Kingdom first hand.

I am not saying all these are bad people, if you sell a phoney grade, that's bad, but maybe this organization has really lived its useful life. The rumors of grade selling will get worse, the numbers involved will increase in my opinion. Maybe it just got so far out of hand with the KHF that it is time for that organization to call it quits. Take the good men and start again fresh. The air needs to be cleared.

Disco believes that the mess will die down in 6 months - for many I would agree, for some of us that have seem hapkido drawn into a mire of junk like this, the time has come to start cleaning house.

Kevin

 

[whalen]

Kevin, point of clarification: James Garrison was the representative of the Korean Hapkido Federation (often confused with the Korea Hapkido Federation, but a different organization).

There may have been confusion on my position. I have said that I am the US Representative of the KHF Chun Do Kwan. My instructor, GM Yu, Chun-He is the founder. I am also one of only 3 non-Koreans in America that are considered 7th Dans by the KHF.

Hal

 

[iron_ox]

Master Whalen,

You are correct, thanks for that. I went back and checked the source, and it had a typo - Garrison's organization is different one indeed!!

Please don't take offense at my comments about the KHF, I know that you have an excellent reputation as a technician. I am just tired of all the stalling and boo-hooing that everyone is doing. If the accusations are true, action must be taken now. If not, then lets get the air cleaned and move on - we are all be damaged by this.

I will say this Master Whalen, you were very ahead of the curve when in the October 1998 issue of TKD Times, your letter "Hapkido for Sale" made an interesting reference to "...a Disneyworld Hapkido vacation..." very prophetic to say the least all things considered.

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[whalen]

And my life has never been the same since that article.

Hal

 

[Disco]

Although I have not been privy to your referenced 1998 article in TKD Times, I would assume that it addressed the problem (indirectly) that has transpired. As I stated in a prior post, someone referenced a 1999 time frame that this very same problem was brought forth. Apparently, the KHF sat on their hands then and from reading all the postings not only here, but other sites, it looks the same. To quote Yogi Berra,"It looks like deja vu all over again".

Please forgive me if the following comes off the wrong way, but there is no soothing way to say it. Many have you as the leading candidate for the position of U.S. rep and you are more than qualified. From my viewpoint, why would you even want the position? It looks as if nobody paid any real attention in 98. They apparently did a Ray Charles in 99 and now it looks like a Bill Clinton is coming up (what the meaning of is, is). Perhaps it's time for you and other senior American members of the KHF to start a home ruled organization. I'd be willing to bet that it would be a major stepping stone in bringing Hapkido(ists) together in this country.

Respectfully :asian:

 

[whalen]

Loyalty is the first thing I learned from my master. I only have one father. Just because I do not always agree with him, his politics, or his decisions, does not mean I go out an get myself another father.

Patience is the second thing (and I'm still learning this one.).

But thank you for the consideration.

Hal

 

[fringe_dweller]

Originally posted by whalen
Loyalty is the first thing I learned from my master. I only have one father. Just because I do not always agree with him, his politics, or his decisions, does not mean I go out an get myself another father.

Hal

And there is an attitude we could all learn from....

Grant

 

[Disco]

quote: Originally posted by whalen
Loyalty is the first thing I learned from my master. I only have one father. Just because I do not always agree with him, his politics, or his decisions, does not mean I go out an get myself another father.

This is true, but if the father is not to be trusted and is or has done things unexceptable, then a prudent person distances himself from this person. Just using your annology, sons remove themselves from their fathers everyday, to safeguard their furture.

Loyality is a commendable attribute in a person. Misguided loyality however is subject to questioning. Understand your position in a way. You have been with them for many years and you personally have not been a part of all that has been going on. But based upon available information from the net, this problem has been ongoing for years and was reported to have been addressed in 1999. Apparently nothing was corrected. It now has again surfaced for all to view again and the powers that be seem to be talking around it. Can't help but to be somewhat perplexed. If in fact the allegations are true and proof is available (which seems to be the case from those that have been the accusers), by not coming forward with a position on the matter only makes it look questionable at best. Responding that it's under investigation is an old dodge. Proof and accusers are and have been available for quite some time. Even on other sites, this is starting to fade into the sunset, just as it looks like they wanted it to. If I was a senior member and looking to safeguard my organization, I would endeavor to stimulate the officer(s) in charge to state offically the organizations position on the person in question and just exactly what's going to happen to those affected.

Respectfully :asian:

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Disco:

A theme that I have heard in my life a lot is that one "cannot fix a system from the outside". The way this has been explained to me is that to some extent one must find a way to "get along" within the organization and work for change from within. I also agree with Hal that loyalty to ones' GM or organization is of prime importance. Certainly, if we don't like the way things are going we can always "vote with our feet" as the saying goes. There are a myriad of organizations to choose from. For me, however, this raises two very important points.

The first point is that if one remains with an organization will it happen that sooner or later one hits a "glass wall" beyond which the powers in authority will resist further change. This was the reason I raised the point about the $$. My sense is that most organizations will make changes guided by which option promises the greater financial reward.

The second point is that a member walks a very thin line between honoring oneself and honoring the organization. Waiting for the wheels to move slowly, trusting in the good efforts of current officers, working slowly to improve quality of services can try the patience of Job. And there is no guarentee that such things will come out well either in one organization or another. Personally I would like to see Hal take a more pro-active part in announcing remedial efforts for the current misused and abused KHF membership, but then there might already be things at work that have not been finalized for release.

Its coming up to about a month since the "Great December 6th Announcement" that was to have wow-ed the MA world. I can see giving it a bit more time to see what might happen in the next few weeks. I don't see this dying down to nothing in that time. There is a LOT of unfinished business to be addressed before all of this is laid to rest. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

I do think that loyalty has its place, particularly in the study of any martial art. But when the orgainzation or the head of the orgainzation violates a trust - or worse, allows the orgainzation to be ridiculed, something has to change. My first instructor was "ethically challenged" and when he was gone, the orgainzation decided to fold and start fresh rather than try to outlive the bad image the instructor cast.

Another question comes to mind - according to recent press, the KHF has accepted a Yudo orgainzation into its ranks as a Hapkido Kwan - what is this about? Maybe as Bruce suggests, money is playing a bigger part in this than we can imagine.

I hope that the KHF does not believe that this will just all blow over - we in the Hapkido community have all gotten a good kick in the teeth over this one - its time to get a decision that can put some of this really to rest.

Finally, anyone read the January TKD Times? Wonder how they feel about the new "pair" of column writers?? Heard future columns have already been cancelled!! But just to be sure, drop them a line to tell them how you feel reading stuff from an accused fraud.

Kevin Sogor

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Kevin:

".......Another question comes to mind - according to recent press, the KHF has accepted a Yudo orgainzation into its ranks as a Hapkido Kwan - what is this about? Maybe as Bruce suggests, money is playing a bigger part in this than we can imagine. ....."

You just hit the nail right on the head! I had not heard about this but if it is true that is EXACTLY what I am talking about!! Some time back I remember raising cane about GM Ji bestowing a standing on a Judo player from out close to the East Coast. I'm not saying that person was not talented, or gifted or competent. What I AM saying is that GM Ji teaches Sin Mu Hapkido. What happens to the integrity of the art if one takes in people and gives them standing in the hopes that they will, with time, absorb and promote a particular style of Hapkido? To my mind what this is about is guarenteeing residule fees to help support GM in a style to which he would like to become accustomed in his old age.

I have some pretty strong issues about this as you can tell, but its NOT about making money. People have a right to make a living just about anyway they choose. What I DO have a problem with is when the integrity of the KMA suffers. I have already fought with people who told me for some time that if it hadn't been for Japanese arts there would BE no Korean traditions! I have long since shut them up with sound facts, resources and citations. But it doesn't help me when Korean nationals themselves make outlandish claims, play fast and loose with curriculums, or abuse historical traditons so to improve the bottomline.

I am waiting for just ONE more Korean national to tell me that Westerners will never fully appreciate Korean culture, or fully understand Korean martial tradition. Seems to me, from what all I have seen in the last year that all one needs to understand the "nuances" of Korean martial traditions these days is an appreciation for money and a talent for schlock marketing. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[rana_hapkido_panama2002]

Hi all and be blessed and all of you have a great 2004

I am Ramon Navarro, HapKiDo Sabum now for almost 27 years from the country of Panama and assistant to Grand Master Park, Song IL 9th Dan; we have Song Moo HapKiDo International (for English speaking people) and Song Moo HapKiDo Internacional (for Spanish speaking people).

I am the person in charge of the International Kwans that are for now USA and Colombia with working plans for other countries.

I believe that Loyalty is important because like the saying of the Christians and Catholics say : ' The family that prays together stays together ' and by other expressions are like this one ' Strength comes from unity '.

If this a fact then we must stay firm on our principles and if must choose to change this principles it must be done in the way that it will be best for our conscious mind and future in life - not to make enemies if possible !

Also we must act in accordance to our believes and if this means go public then it must be done.

Now a days everyone wants money and some are willing to go beyond the realm of the right way to do this. Unethically ! This should not be the way but the truth is that it is happening.

I believe that HapKiDo to be done correctly, it must not be mixed and I know that many other people do not think like I do and I respect that. Thought it is much important that a organization that is well known as in this theme the KHF that if there are any errors that are being made that there must be corrections done as soon as possible for the sake of the people that are part of that organization and the well being of its members.

I do not know for real but I think that the best way to reorganize an organization is by getting rid of all the people that have to do with the case of this one specific group that is very big and very well known for it not to lose its strength as such. The bad thing is that the people that have the head should not be in the art but the truth is that it must be the way that it is : to have a well respected person from its origin to guide and rule it !

I do know is that there are a lot of people that need to be backed up and a hole lot more that do want to get involved but do not do so because of the actions that some ones do in many of the main organizations and that they instead of helping the art speaking well of the other organizations, degrade them wish do not do good for the art in general.

The truth is that there is something that must be done in the inner line of the Korea HapKiDo Federation so it can be seen that the future of the other people that would like to join do it with security of the growth of their group.

I am not going to say to much more, Thanks for the group and have a good training year coming up, 2004.

HAP:asian:

 

[Disco]

Bruce, have to agree with your monetary outlook. Just seems to be the evolution for people in positions of authority or posing as such. Also, as Mr. Sogor pointed out, they accepted a Yudo organization as a kwan. I have heard this prior to his posting, but could not bring myself to believe it was true. They would have to be past the point of arrogance, to not care what people would think of actions like this. What kind of validation, other than money, could they come up with for something like that? In all fairness to the senior members, who seem to hold the true tenents of the Martial Arts to heart, I think that more investigation will just uncover what most fear. A cesspool of corruption and fraud. I would like to believe that it is only localized to where the stink is coming from now, but only the very gullible could entertain that position.

As for the position that you "can't change things from the outside". Common sense dictates that a single person who gets access to a position on the inside, can't change it either. More over they just acquiesce and become part of the problem. In a situation like an organization like this, positioned in another country under so-called governmental acceptance, there is no way a foreigner would get an inner position (Bruce's "Glass Wall"). I know Bruce dosen't care all that much for organizations but they are here and we have to deal with them the best we can. Just using this situation for an example. The only recourse that many would have is to just leave and go off on their own. Now you have independent's, that for them to advance in rank, they now must promote themselves. Kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't. But many look down on the self promotion aspect. So now your back to organizational overview. I still adhear to the position that the time has come for the senior ranking in the U.S. to reposition their thinking.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Ramon:

I think you raise some very sound points. I am sure there are a great many of folks like myself who are waiting to see whether or not the KHF will deal with things and what that actions will produce. I am a loyal WHF member and could see becoming a KHF member IF I could be sure that values and ethics were placed higher than financial success and prestige. As it stands I am in something of a holding pattern. In a way its a bit like touring the New England area of the US and seeing the fine old covered bridges which were built many decades ago. They are certainly attractive and romantic from a distance, but up close there can often be warning signs that age and use have weakened them to traffic. Pretty to look at, but losing their practical use. We need people who can come to the front and show us that the organizations are all that they say they are. FWIW.

BTW: Sometime it would be really nice to get a chance to meet you and finally put a face with these great posts you contribute.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[greendragon]

I have long ago come to the conclusion that money is money... For many years I held the KMA traditions and masters above ill repute. Well I finally talked to a very wise american with great knowledge of Koreans and korean culture. I started complaining about the things I have seen and didn't agree with. Bottom line is that he says he doesn't understand why americans put koreans on some big ethical and moral pedestal, he says hey they are just people like everyone else and money corrupts EVERYONE! Now I'm not making excuses, I am just saying that I like a lot of others viewed the korean masters thru rose colored glasses... well they are JUST like americans and they CAN be corrupted with money just like all the other cultures so to think they are above that or better than that is looking at everything very unrealistically. If things don't change the way you think it will look at the money trail... in the end it sways too many people and money and greed doesn't care what country or culture you are from.
Michael Tomlinson

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Michael:

"......Bottom line is that he says he doesn't understand why americans put koreans on some big ethical and moral pedestal, he says hey they are just people like everyone else and money corrupts EVERYONE! ....."

You probably know what I am going to write even before I put it down here, but I will share this all the same for others who have not heard my spiel.

What you have laid out here is exactly the point I have been working to make for a few years now. It does not help that people from this side of the Pacific put personalities up on some pedestal. It does not help that some Korean personalities encourage an elite view of themselves with talk of fancy titles, or exotic lineage, or embellished tales of how they came to represent the art that they advocate. The simple fact is that we are dealing with people who instruct in an activity and just like any activity you have good and bad instructors and a host of folks in between. Since I have a teaching background in the school system here in the States I can tell you that I have met some stellar teachers. I have also met some real zeroes. I can tell you that all--- all----- of those folks I am speaking about are not above being regarded objectively for what they do and how they do it. What this means for my KMA experience is that when some personality shields himself from criticism behind a title or exotic history I am the first to pull that crap to oneside, and start asking some basic questions about what he teaches, why he teaches that and how he gets his message across.

I know that Americans get toasted pretty well by Koreans for being so "intellectual" and asking so many questions. However, I would turn the table and challenge many Korean organizations and personalities for hiding behind a mis-use of Neo-Confucianism that seems to shield such folk from accountability. Under such a model if we "underlings" are to hold to our place and pay loyalty and support to people in position of responsibility over us, it is also required, by the same model, that people in positions of responsibility act with honor, justice and benevolence to care after the needs of those under them. This does not include greening membership like a cash cow so as to feather their nest and preen their egos.

OK. I feel better now.

Best Wishes,

Bruce