Hapkido Kwans

[Kodanjaclay]

I am not sure how much it was per the mooto letter. My fourth dan he wanted 1 grand to fix, and he charged Fabian 600 bucks. Fabian was already KHF certified, but he convinced Fabian that he old Master Cha ripped him off and made him re-pay for 1-3 as well. I brought him to a friends school in ashland Va, where he and a couple mebers of his entourage proceed to embarrass him by telling my friend his rank was no good... in his school, and in front of a couple of his students. Can you imagine how bad I felt? The rank wasn't bad... it was just a cert from our old grandmaster, bearing his name, and the name of his organization... we were both told, mostly because neither of us reads Korean presumably, that one of the characters meant honorary.

I have stated several times that I am unsure what my KMA history will hold. All I can say is that I am tired of the games, and the cons. I don't know that I want to be a part of it, and I nor anyone else, should every be made to feel that way. My trust and loyalty were abused, and I feel as though my psyche was raped. This guy needs to go away, but since he is not returning phone cals, my guess is that he is trying to lay low until the fervor stops... but I have news. It will never stop... Hackworthless, I hope one fo your little flunkies sees this and tells you about it. I am very loyal, true... but also very ethical, and so long as there is air in my lungs, I will be a thorn in your side, and in the side of those like you. I have a great suggestion for you: RETIRE.

 

[Disco]

List of Hackworth's Victims
Writer : Tom Schneider ([email protected])


If any of the following people think they are 4th Dans or higher under the KHF, then they have been conned by Hackworth.

I'm sure that most of these people are honest, hard-working individuals who worked hard for what they believed was legitimate rank and whose only mistake was putting trust in an individual who turned out to be a con man.

Here is the list of just the Americans listed as official KHF instructors on Hackworth's website. None of these people are listed on the official list of KHF Non-Korean Masters listed on the real KHF website.

Ed Annibale
Steve M. Arce
Ken Baker
Walter Bond
Steve Bowman
Frank Clay
Joseph Connolly
Dennis Corn
Dr. Daryl R. Covington
Robert Cox
Jim Cray
Garrett DeWitt
Mike Frazier
Gregory Glover
Craig Hamm
Kevin Huston
Larry Ingles
Dae Y. Kim
Hoon Lee
Joseph Lumpkin
Tommy Lunsford
Robert Marlatt
Shane Miller
Ryoichi Miyahara
Danny Morgan
Charles M. Nestor
Bette Nielson
Darren Norris
Fred Parks
Les Pearson
Dan Piller
Gary Pointer
Terryl Richardson
James Risius
Stuart Rosenberg
Ed Samane
Fred Soto, Ph.D.
Allen Spindel
T.S. Son
Ronald R. Suggs
Barbara Sullivan
Howard Sun
Chuck VanSickle
Shannon Vazquez
Kenneth Winthrop
K.W. Woo

Just at 4th Dan fee's alone that's $19,000. Sounds like a big case of Grand Larceny and getting bigger all the time.

 

[arnisador]

This might be more appropriate for the Horror Stories forum.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Disco:

Just to make sure I understand what you posted....

The list of folks, were they all acquiring their 4th Dan from Hackworth at his going fee, would produce the $19,000US figure you mention, right?

However the $19,000US figure does not take into account those fees charged in the case of folks who may have secured additional dan ranks (5th, 6th, 7th.) or the certs for validating the ranks of students, other BB at a particular location in addition to the school owner or schools and classes related to the main school presided over by the owner.

If I read your post correctly you were suggesting that the $19,000US would be simply the tip of the iceberg. If this is true I think it is important for people to appreciate just how large the iceberg might be. Hackworth made quite an issue about how many kwans, styles, schools, etc. were related to or members of his growing network. At one time Hackworth was associated with a variety of kwans in the US and Korea through the KMAIA, with KIHAP with Ed Annibel, a Yudo Association with Joe Connolly and smaller groups such as the one associated with Rev Covington ("Karate for Christ"). Apparently all of these groups and associations enjoyed various validations from Hackworth and his machine.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Bruce, I was using the fee amount that Mr. Clay had mentioned in his post as a generalization. On the mooto site the fee was quoted at $1500. Just using the 4th as the tip of the iceberg so to speak, for that is the only fee that has been quoted. I would imagine that there are lots of folks from 1st thru 3rd not only in Hapkido but the other organizations and disciplines (TKD and Karate?) that are/could be affected. Just at the 4th Hapkido level, is big time grand larceny numbers. This could inflate to mini Enron numbers. As far as Mr. Connelly goes, aside from the fact that he likes to inflate his bio, he also may be on the outside looking in. I would venture that he was most likely conned also. His name was on that list of victims. That would most likely takeaway many of the rankings he lists. In general, a thief dosen't like to share, so I doubt Mr. H was/is spreading the wealth.

From minor research, this effort against Hackworth has been ongoing for some time and has finnally produced sufficient evidence for people to take off the gloves and call it like it is. There's just way to many people claiming foul and voicing an outcry to think that this is just a flame war. I have no personal stake in this, aside from the fact that as a practicioner of the arts, particularly those arts in question, I want to see some sort of Justice and Honor returned to what is a very big part of my life. A man like this casts his shadow on all of us in the arts and makes us all look bad in the eyes of the general public. This is the time for all of us to step forward and show that we can and MUST police our own. If this incident......... no travesty, goes unchallenged and is left to just fade away into obscurity, then we as a community are just as guilty of perpertrating a fraud as he is. The people that are directly affected must, repeat must, not let this man slide, if there is a legal way to confront him. As for my position in this, I will endeavor to keep people informed and not let this slip into the history files and become forgotten, until there is resolution.

 

[whalen]

[Re.]List of Hackworth's Victims
Writer : Harold L. Whalen__([email protected])


My sincere apologies to those who were duped by Hackworth. I can assure you that the KHF is addressing this situation.

Unfortunately, some of the people on the list promoted by Hackworth are of questionable Hapkido backgrounds. I believe that in some cases, money was first, ability was second. However, those of legitimate Hapkido backgrounds will be assisted.

If you have any questions, or if I can be of help, feel free to contact me directly.

Sincerely,

Harold L. Whalen
7th Dan, KHF

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Hal:

Sounds like a nice "middle-of-the-road" kind of policy.

BTW: Have YOU heard any earth-shaking announcements about who is to be the Head rep for the KHF? From the list it would seem that you would have the rank, or at least the ear closest to what may be happening across the pond in the the Old Country.

BTW #2: As I sit by and watch things unfold, the irony is not lost on me that rather than being one who might have been expected to "slit their wrists" I can enjoy a comfortable perspective from which to watch Hackworth hoisted on his own petard. Couldn't have happened to a nicer person. :shrug:

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Is or has the KHF formally denounced Mr. Hackworth and removed him from their rolls? For those with "legit" Hapkido backgrounds, would you have any idea of what the KHF is willing to do on their behalf? Forgive my straight forward questioning, but I am curious as to the extent the home office (Korea) will go to in order to attempt a correction and unvilify their reputation. Even though I am not personally affected, on behalf of those that are, I applaud you for stepping forward and offering your assistance and your personal apology. You are sir, a person of honor and integrity.

Respectfully
Mike Dunn / disco

 

[whalen]

Bruce: stay tuned to my radio show for all the answers.

But seriously, I am in contact with Korea and the KHF. It is somewhat like dealing with City Hall (or any government agency). I have been in contact with several Grandmasters of the KHF including GM Bae. As of now, there is no earthshattering news to share. I will keep everyone informed of any developments. Let's keep in mind that this problem didn't develop overnight, and so it won't be solved overnight either. And as much as this man has personally attacked me, he is innocent until proven guilty.

Hal

 

[Disco]

Innocent until proven guilty?................. We are all under the assumption that proof of wrong doing has been established. Are there in fact persons that have this proof or is this just a personal vendetta by a few people? With the amount of people making accusations on several sites, including the KHF site, one has to believe that these people have some tangible proof to back up their statements.

 

[glad2bhere]

My sense is that at some level we all have a pretty good idea of whats going to happen here. We have all seen it before and it stinks but its the way these things usually go.

Every time some entrepeneur exceeds himself people are dutifully horrified and appalled. We wonder how could such things happen and why doesn't somebody DO something. Here are a couple of answers.

1.) There are a lot more people who want the quick and easy way to positions of influence than those who want to earn their way. Hackworths' system seemed to be a viable venue for getting the sort of position of authority, status and prestige that people were hungry for. In order for this to change people would need to give up their hunger for power and status.

2.) There are a lot of people who want to avoid accountability. How many people if they could pay a bit more and NOT take a test or have their skills publicly assessed wouldn't do it? We KNOW if our skills are good or not. What kind of person who has viable skills in one art knowingly accepts standing in another art with little or no experience in that second art? If you have any doubts about how desperate people can be to avoid accountability trying raising the issue of centralized licensure or governmental oversight and see how fast people pull back!

3.) Money WILL talk so Bulls*** WILL walk. There are big bucks in the Martial Theatre industry. Even a little seminar of 20 people @ $60US a head will bring in $1200US for an afternoons' work. Imagine a weekend of 100 people @ $100US for both days! And I'm not counting the last minute "testing" which kicks in "test fees", or books and tapes, memberships and so forth. Easy money and don't pretend that you honestly think that people in positions of power don't do the math before they cut somebody like Hackworth loose. Just how do you think he got into the position of authority that he found himself? It wasn't his charming personality!

No, Friends, it is going to happen again, farther down the road. Not because we like getting burned, or bamboozled, but because in the minds of a great many people there is a little "risk management" program running even as I write this. The program decides the probability of this pain visiting our own house, and when we find that likelihood acceptably small we turn our backs and go about our business, After all, as painful as this is, its pain in someone elses backyard, right?

......at least for the time being.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Reviewing some of the other sites where this is also an ongoing issue, KHF, Budoseek, Bullshido and 1 or 2 other's that escape me at the moment. The consensus of opinion is to let this simmer down, pull back and let it unfold? Nice way of saying forget about it. The old saying, "Out of sight - Out of mind", comes to mind. At least 2 of those sites have some sort of vested interest with the party being accused. Can understand why they would want it to just go away. The other's don't and what I'm seeing from them is we just don't care.....total apathy. That seems to be the prevalent attitude throughout society. Another old saying comes to mind in dealing with a situation like this - "Fool me once, shame on you / Fool me twice, shame on me"....... For the people that have a personal involvement in this, stay the course. Don't let something like this happen to other's and surely not by the same person.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Disco:

Maybe I can provide an alternate way of considering this. In one very telling way Hackworth HAS done us a service.

For many years now I have been advocating for these myriad organizations to actually perform the sorts of services that organizations are meant to perform. People join organizations for the increased frequency with which organization bring like-minded people together. People join organizations for the hierarchical way in whcih those organizations structure themselves and their membership regarding skills or services. People join organizations to improve their standings or skill sets. People join organizations to broaden their experiences or awareness. I could go on, but I think you get the point. The common point of reference for all of these things is that people have an expectation that if someone sets themselves up as an organization they are actually going to deliver on these expectations. What Hackworth seems to have given us is a Class-A bungle that these organizations now have to deal with. My question is, "will they?"

Some years back I was involved in an ugly little mess where I was working and I was told that I could not trust the management there to do the right thing by me. All I had to go on was the grousing of some disaffected co-workers. As an (expensive) experiment I eschewed Union representation and simply went on faith----- and got my clock cleaned. The only redeeming blessing I could see out of that mess was that I now have concrete experience that tells me never to trust these management people as far as I can throw them. I think the same holds true for the KHF. Why do you think I am following this so carefully----- and I am not even a member? For years I have heard various organizations advertise and represent themselves as the very embodiment of Korean martial arts and martial tradition. So far the World Kido and Korea Kido have split and there is little to be heard from either of them. Sin Mu Hapkido is still around and selling rank to anyone who will expand their cachement area. Now the KHF is up to ITS armpits in poop. And everytime someone asks one of these organizations about their shortcomings there is always some heavy rationalization to explain away why what people are seeing is not really what is happening. Well, we all know whats going on right now. We have the person who designed this mess and we have the folks who were defrauded and we have the organization(s) in whose name(s) this was done. I am waiting to see what it is that the KHF is going to do to make things right. If they fail you can best believe that I know one 3rd Dan in Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido who won't let it pass by quietly.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Bob D.]

Is it typical for dan tests to cost $1500 in Hapkido?

 

[Disco]

I guess if there's a monoply on organization availability. If you don't join them (the people that charge $1000-1500), then by their words on their site, your a fraud. In legalize, I think that could be catagorized as strong arming.

 

[glad2bhere]

Actually I think one can take it a step farther.

Has anyone actually considered what it costs to get a test?

Has anyone ever noticed that the fees always seem to be higher in the US and a lot less in Korea?

And exactly how much of that expensive test is a foregone conclusion simply because the testor has the cert in his hot little bag and the testee has a check in HIS hot little hand?


I don't know this for a fact but I have a vague suspicion that what is being bought is not just the cert but an unstated agreement between people that for the person doing the certifying not to scrutinize to closely the person being certified agrees to pay a bit more. A lot less scrutiny means a LOT more money.

"Of course, thats just my opinion. I COULD BE wrong."

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[fringe_dweller]

Originally posted by Bob D.
Is it typical for dan tests to cost $1500 in Hapkido?

Not where I'm from.... Damn that's a lot of money to be spent on rank.

Grant

 

[Disco]

Does have to make you wonder. I've had my suspicions for a long time. Not that I'm any Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee, but I've seen way to many that.........just suck......no other way to put it. Well I guess you can only bail out the boat so much until the hole gets to big to stay up with the water coming in.%think%

 

[Disco]

It's been just about a week, since there was any information on the situation with the KHF and Mr. you know who. What if anything is going on? I would have thought that by now, with all that has been presented, that the KHF would have said something definitive about their position and the disposition of the party in question. Are the people who were victimized going to seek criminal action? Would hate to see this just fade away into the sunset like a bad Italian Western

 

[whalen]

About the recent incidents after listing the non-Korean masters
Because of the recent listing of the KHF non-Korean masters on the KHF web site, many masters are disturbed and confused. As the director in charge of this matter, I am sincerely sorry to many innocent and enthusiastic Hakido In(people).

As we know, President Oh and all the masters of the KHF are working very hard to keep austere Dan(Black Belt) Rank to preserve Hapkido as an orthodox martial art.

Partly due to this policy, some masters who run Dojangs(schools) at the front sometimes meet financial difficulties, not only the difficulties of teaching lots of Sulki(techniques) to apply Dan rank. However, it can not be excuses to so-called "selling Dan".

We admit many masters' difficulties to follow the KHF policy at the front line. That is why the KHF has begun to improve and reform lots of things to function more systematically and organizationally to help masters not only in Korea but also overseas in the world.

Till recent days, the overseas networks of Hapkido normally have been working on as individual masters' bases or some specific Kwans'(schools) bases without reporting to the KHF, whereas the KHF has been concerned mainly in Korean domesticity.

And some dishonest people and masters have exploited this former attitude of the KHF, and have caused today's mischievous incidents consequently.

The KHF will do proper actions against masters and people who broke the Hapkido and martial arts ethics after investigation.

And also the KHF promises to do the best to relieve the innocent Hapkido In(people) according to our regulations.

Thank you.


Sung-Book Bae
Director, the KHF
22_______