Hapkido Kwans

[Disco]

Well, I see where all the hoopla and pre-stake burning rhetoric has disappeared in the KHF/Mr H saga. So the bottom line on all this was what? He is still doing business as usual, so apparently no charges were filed. He now belongs to another/different KHF organization, which welcomed him with open arms. Judging from some of the posts from the KHF site, not that long ago, smack down is still ongoing, but coming from his camp. Reportedly filing some sort of legal papers to road block coming into this country against some Hapkido Masters from overseas.

Granted, none of this effects many of us on a personal level. We were not the ones allegedly cheated and lied to. But this was brought to a public forum for all to see and analyze and comment on. Now it seems that it's out of sight out of mind, on to other topics. This is not the solution to the reported problem. You do realize that if those of you who are affected and have voiced your disgust and vented your rage to the rest of us, if you refuse to not follow thru or at the very least attempt to do what is called for, then your own personal credibility will be undermined in many peoples eyes. I forget who penned the phrase, "Evil succeeds when Good Men do Nothing", but he was on the money.
:asian:

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Disco:

I hate to say this but I think the earlier stuff with all the rowdy name-calling and finger-pointing was the easy part. It now remains for people to continue to be vigilant and constant and I am afraid that Americans are not well-known for either. I wouldn't exactly call it "outta sight; outta mind", but more like "so whats' next?" Seems like we Americans are always looking for novelty and when the novelty wears off in one place we head in some new direction. Con artists depend on this aspect of human nature.

As far as being accepted to a new organization, I am not sure that it has happened yet but probably will. This new guy, Park, seems hot to build an organization and a rep. The best thing he has to offer is validation by a jen-u-wine Korean national. What does he care what the round-eyes do to each other as long as he gets his cut, right? In fact, what do ANY of these players care as long as they can continue to market illusion for cash. Its not like you are going to see a whole bunch of these bozo-s at the up-coming camp in June putting their skills to the test. On the other hand, we have a list of 21 questions for which these turkeys are accountable. Maybe we need to keep those handy.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Well Bruce, it's been a while since anything or anybody has posted on this thread. Even from the other sites, this is a dead issue. Everybody seems to be totally involved with the up coming KHF seminar (?). I know, we have discussed this before. I guess it's just me, I just can't see spending that kind of money, when you compare it to the Mississippi gathering, which was less than 1/3 the price. I'm Scotch/Irish, so I'm cheap but I will drink if you buy. :uhyeah: I believe the guys in charge locally now, Mr. Duque and Mr Whalen, are standup people and have the best of intentions. It's the people behind them that looks to still be in the direction of business as usual. But that is just my opinion, I have been wrong now and again though. I would like to see somebody answer the open question I put forth on the other site though. Don't think I'll hold my breath while waiting.

Take Care :asian:

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Disco:

I know what you mean. I suppose I DO take a little different view of these things. I remember how bitter I was when GM Myung tossed me out of the WHF a few years back. I couldn't know that he would take me back in a few years later and was pretty pissed-off about all that I had done for the organization and for YMK Hapkido. I think thats why its so easy to understand peoples' feelings of betrayal with this whole Florida thing. Anyhow, it was some time later and I stumbled upon Master West, quite by accident. I am not sure he will ever know what a service he did with just extending some tolerance and support. He's quite a man, and thats one of the reasons he'll have to put up with me using "master" where he' concerned, despite the fact that he personally really hates that. And to be honest, I have come to feel much the same about Master Timmerman, who likewise has given a whole lot more than I think he has gotten sometimes. He also is just going to have to suffer being addressed as "master Timmerman", like it or not.

Now, the reason I share all of that is that these people have put their actions where their mouths are, and since imitation is the sincerest form of compliment, I feel constrained to do the same thing. As much bitching as I have done about organizations and leadership, when its my turn at the front of the line I think I need to quit talking and start doing. Honestly, I don't know WHERE this KHF thing is gonna go, but if I can pitch-in and help turn a lemon into lemonade maybe there are a whole lot of people who can be helped. If this up-coming event comes off HALF as well as I think it will I can see a few things coming out of it. Heres a couple of fantasies.....

1.) Regional testing each year at pre-specified times and at pre-specified locations.

2.) In counterpoint to the testings and perhaps 6 months off the sceduled test would be a regional Seminar to examine material for the up coming test.

3.) Each Dan rank would have specified criteria unique to that particular rank.

4.) 3 Times a year, a clinic in Hapkido or Hapkido weapons would be conducted, and the content would be consistent with uniform testing and training guidelines.

5.) Finally, I hope that if these things happen with this level of frequncy that we can figure some way to keep the cost down. I am not talking about just keeping down the cost of the event, but also off-setting the cost of coming in from out of town and staying in a strange area for a few days. Sometimes I think its not just the cost of the event but the meals, hotels and local transport that can be daunting for people.

Anyhow, I understand what you are saying. I hope we are looking at a major change in the wind. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Bruce, I like your fantasies. I have no problems with supporting the right agenda and the right people who are willing to serve the greater good. The only real problem I have, is paying thru the nose for any and all of the services this organization offers.

If you do attend the June festivities, perhaps you can set aside a few hours and we can visit. I'm about an hour or so south in the Tampa area.

Mike

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Mike:

And I think that "paying through the nose" is the flip-side of this.

Meaning no disrespect to GM Myung and the WHF I know that one place that I have had serious differences with him has been on the matter of compensated services. Its not that I dispute being compensated for performing a service. Rather I take issue when each and every interaction with him became a matter commerce. We are talking about a person whose family is independently wealthy back in Korea so its not as though he HAD to charge for his services. In fairness, though, one would expect him to ask some compensation for his time and efforts. Still, a single trip to the Midwest (Chicago area) included RT air-fare, his lodging for the weekend, wining and dining, and transport. Later he began to ask for a set "honorarium" of some $700US. Now, when you are talking about a core WHF cadre of some 30-40 people doing this 3-4 times a year things begin to add-up fast! And we have not even gotten to the place of discussing advertising and promotion expenses, cost of the facility as well as time and energy expended. My personal concern was that in repeatedly doing these promotions in this way no thought was taken for maintaining a base of interested NEW practitioners who might still be in the stages of trying to make decisions about how to use their disposable income. People who are reading this who are KMA practitioners with families, with children, with domestic overhead to consider will know what I am talking about.

I am not sure what the answer is, except to say that perhaps there needs to be a more moderate approach to activities. Instead of four tiny events, or one big yearly event, maybe the answer is 2 or 3 moderate events. Maybe the cost needs to be shared between the host entity and the visiting entities.
Maybe the goals of an event need to be less generalized (IE. "Introduction to Hapkido", "will focus on Ke-bon-su") and be more grade specific (IE. "will focus exclusively on 1st and Second Dan requirements"). Perhaps another alternative is to have larger admissions fees but for an entire school regardless of the number of participants. I don't know. I only know what has NOT worked in the past and the result is that the art--- not the organization suffers for it.

As far as getting together in Tampa I think it would all depend on how intense this experience turns out to be. It sounds like a great idea, though.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Bruce, your illustration of costs should open some peoples eyes. We have discussed this issue on another site, but I will add it to this thread, as it ties in with what we are now discussing. It's nice that the KHF is wanting to open it's arms - so to speak, with inviting everyone to this seminar. But the question is, is this really a seminar? From the offered text from KHF officials, it's a Dan testing and Masters course. They will undergo pre-testing evaluations, while at the same time going thru the required KHF curriculum. As outsiders, we will be able to interface only with the given agenda. Granted, people would/should be able to learn something, but it's not a seminar in the text of being able to share and expand, like the Mississippi gathering. I personally can't see spending that kind of money, to in essence meet and greet other Hapkidoin. I just think that this could be adjusted to where the KHF people do their thing and then have an open seminar for everybody else at a more reasonable cost.

If you decide to come down in June, give me a shout and I'll send you my number. If you should find the time, just give us a ring and we can get together.

Mike

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Mike:

I think I follow what you are saying. Unless I miss my guess I think the issue is in the definition and practice of the term "seminar". I know at Master Wests' events the opportunity is much greater for dialogue and that those opportunities occur at many levels from informal chatting between classes, infrequent exchanges on the mat, and, of course, those get-togethers over food and drink after the daily training is done. When I compare these with the WHF seminars, for instance, I can imagine that maybe GM Myung would LIKE to have such an experience, but in practice it was less a "seminar" in the Western sense, and more of an instructional intensive. There was little or not talking on the mat, and not a whole lot of kibbutzing around the perifery of the mat. People were usually so dogged at the end of the day there wasn't a lot of motivation for going out and hoisting a few. Personally I think if people went to the typical American practitioner and invited them to come to an "intensive" it would probably daunt many of them.

Another point that comes to mind is the variance in material. By this I mean that as I write my books on Hapkido, YMK Hapkido is ever a constant guide. However, to write about techniques so as to have as broad an application as possible I have had to step-around some of the more specialized moves and concepts. I think the view of this seminar is more focused on giving the KHF take on Hapkido arts and in that way it is undoubtedly intended to serve a kind of unifying theme. I'm not sure I would call it a recruitment effort as I don't hear that in any of what people are communicating about it and its content. Rather, I get the impression its a mending process for members of the Hapkido community who want to participate. After so many different injuries to the community by that person in Florida including mixed-messages, misrepresentations and some pretty big "whoppers", maybe the idea is to take a moment out and reassert what the KHF is about. I don't know; I'm just spit-balling now. For me I still look at it as a invitation to a challenge and an opportunity to contribute to a worthwhile effort.

BTW: Other than yourself, are there others in the Tampa area who have been impacted by all of this? Sometimes I wonder how much what we say here is followed by people lurking in the background, ys know?

As we get closer to the June event maybe we can make some plans to at least make contact, yes?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Nobody that I know personally has been affected by the proceedings. I'm just an opinionated observer myself. But what I have gained from all this is a great awakening on what has/is going on within the world of martial arts, along with the opportunity to talk and meet some new brothers in the arts. I had lunch last week with Jeff Cook from Budoseek, a fine gentleman. By all means, as the June time frame draws near we should stay in touch. Who knows, mabey I'll get a piece of the lottery and show up at the Ocala gathering. :lol: