K
Karazenpo
Guest
Thanks, Tom. Hey, you're only a stone's throw away from me, we ought to hook up sometime!
K
Karazenpo
Guest
Thanks, guys, I thought you'd appreciate that post and I took Doc's advice.....I went to bed and I even made it into work today, thanks, Doc!, lol.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Can we lose all the titles when we dump the theories and deal with the realities?
Thunderbolt
Orange Belt
Doc,
after reading everybody's posts including yours, I have to ask you 1 question
1-Ed. Parker Sr created 2 versions of kenpo: *commercial* and *none-commercial* art.?
OR
2- He created 1 version of AK but his students decided to make it *commercial* one.???
thanks.
after reading everybody's posts including yours, I have to ask you 1 question
1-Ed. Parker Sr created 2 versions of kenpo: *commercial* and *none-commercial* art.?
OR
2- He created 1 version of AK but his students decided to make it *commercial* one.???
thanks.
K
Karazenpo
Guest
rmcrobertson said:
Personally, we should lose more than that. Dan ranking is completely off the wall and think how ridiculous it is training in pajamas decorated with a bunch of patches but then again the military has uniforms with patches and they go by titles and are undisputedly 'reality' figthers and this would include our law enforcement personnel also. I would have to say this protocol maintains discipline, respect and order. Imagine going into boot camp and calling the drill instructor who's a Sgt. by, let's say, 'Mike', lol, boy, that'll get you far or the next time you get stopped by a state trooper and his name tag says Trooper Robert Johnson and you ask: "Bobby, what did I do wrong?', that will get you far too, lol. Nothing wrong with theory either, but you can't base everything on just theory, the theory has to be proven at some time in reality and then and only then will it become a true fighting principle for you that you can bank on. The late Bruce Lee made a good point, only he said it about forms, I'll say it this way, if I may: "Promoting yourself as a self defense 'expert' in the martial arts but never, ever proving yourself in true combat would be the equivalent of claimimg to be another Mark Spitz while learning to swim on dry land." There is nothing wrong if you never had the opportunity to use your skills, it's just important that you do not convey to others an impression that you have. Finally, never have a condescending attitude toward someone who has because eventually it will come back and bite you in the as_, lol.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
One suspects that that last post spoke for itself.
K
Karazenpo
Guest
rmcrobertson said:
I should hope so, it was intended to, lol.
K
Karazenpo
Guest
Robert, let me take this a step further. Why does it bother you that I, or anyone else on this forum was awarded a title with their rank? and why did you feel it appropiate to deflect, you know, dance around, evade, whatever, my original post? You act like a senator from my own home state in Massachusetts who just got buried in a recent election for doing the same thing, lol. I follow and respect the protocol of my instructors, that's all, and if it makes you feel better, I don't even use my title when I teach at my school. I believe that you are a teacher? college, is it? I could be wrong and please correct me if I am (like I know you won't, lol). Well, if this is so, what do your students address you in class as, 'Bobby', 'Rob', 'Dude', Robbie, worse? What is the protocol that you follow in your professionalism? Please, give me a little more than that, just because I'm from the same state as Johnny K. doesn't mean I don't have enough smarts to pick up on the little dig you threw me WHILE of course evading the whole point of my post. Please, no more rhetoric, literary mumbo jumbo or beating around the proverbial bush. If I may use your own quote and apply it to you: "One suspects that your last post spoke for itself", well then, Rob, you never have applied your theories in the real world, have you?
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
I'm inspired. From here on out, I will train naked, and have everybody refer to me simply as "Dude". It will make training in public and visiting other schools a little awkward, but what-da-hey...life needs a little spice. No?
Dave
PS -- twenty bucks says, if I happenstance my way into success, 40 years in the future will find "dude" an official title/rank in some art, somewhere.
Dave
PS -- twenty bucks says, if I happenstance my way into success, 40 years in the future will find "dude" an official title/rank in some art, somewhere.
K
Karazenpo
Guest
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka said:
Hey "Dude", lol. Good one! I hear ya, Dave, you gotta have a sense of humor in the martial arts or actually in life for that matter!
Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
Karazenpo said:
Ding! Advantage goes to Joe!
Old Fat Kenpoka
Master Black Belt
rmcrobertson said:
Well, at least you are no longer alone. Think about it. :2xBird2:
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
way to go, dude!!
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
hey prof joe!
i dont want to toe the line of disrespect to anyone that practices or teaches....but a lot of people i have met that teach have never seen any action outside of their dojo(and i am not implying that people should be spoiling for a fight every 10 minutes like a drunken sailor.......some people are just not in the position to use or test their skills in that manner). i dont think that that is a bad thing, simply because a lot of "stuff" is taught through theory by a teacher, even though that teacher may not practice said theory in everyday life. having said that.....as far a MA go, having theoretical knowledge and practical (practical meaning something outside of your normal tippy tap sparring, or grappling in a scientific way) knowledge is an important combination to have in a teacher (IMHO).
on my next train of thought.......i think that some people that have never been in a fight (but practice thoroughly) are also practising good martial skills.
but that doesnt mean i dont think that a good slap in the face is out of the question, every once in a while.
shawn
i dont want to toe the line of disrespect to anyone that practices or teaches....but a lot of people i have met that teach have never seen any action outside of their dojo(and i am not implying that people should be spoiling for a fight every 10 minutes like a drunken sailor.......some people are just not in the position to use or test their skills in that manner). i dont think that that is a bad thing, simply because a lot of "stuff" is taught through theory by a teacher, even though that teacher may not practice said theory in everyday life. having said that.....as far a MA go, having theoretical knowledge and practical (practical meaning something outside of your normal tippy tap sparring, or grappling in a scientific way) knowledge is an important combination to have in a teacher (IMHO).
on my next train of thought.......i think that some people that have never been in a fight (but practice thoroughly) are also practising good martial skills.
but that doesnt mean i dont think that a good slap in the face is out of the question, every once in a while.
shawn
Doc
Senior Master
Thunderbolt said:
Actually, although there were varying degrees of crossover from one evolving method to another, there were at least 5 clear and distinct philosophies and/or styles.
1. "Kenpo Karate"
What Ed Parker was doing when he arrived on the mainland, first as a brown and later as a black belt opening shop in Pasadena around 54. Wrote the book of the same name and published it in 1961. Bought thousands of patches and got "stuck" with them. Teachers like Chuck Sullivan draw from this era.
2. "Chinese Kenpo"
When Ed Parker discovered the vast knowledge available and embraced the Chinese Arts while studying with and under Ark Wong and Huemea Lefiti. Also where he met Jimmy (James Wing) Woo, and Danny Inosanto. Broke with the established "yudansakai." During this period he wrote "Secrets Of Chinese Karate" and published it in 1963. Notice the compressed time frame. People like Frank Trejo's instructor, Steve Hearring still teach this perspective in Pasadena.
3. "American Kenpo"
Began the codification process of his early understandings of Chinese Kenpo into a distinct evolving American interpretation. Dropped all Japanese - Chinese language and non-essential non-American cultural accoutrements. Notice the lack of the word "karate," considered an insult to the Chinese. Some like Dave Hebler draw from the beginnings of this version.
4. "Ed Parkers American Kenpo Karate"
A series of personal issues causes Ed Parker to decide to enter the commercial marketplace and expand in the second half of the sixties. Looking for a method that differed from the kenpo franchises that preceded him that he felt were flawed, he drew upon his many "transfer" black belts from other styles. Stumbling upon "motion" as a base concept, it allowed him to create loose conceptual guidelines for already competent black belts. This further gave him the freedom to travel conducting seminars, belt tests, and selling, while seeing the majority of his "students" two or three times a year and usually once at the IKC. Most of the well known black belts came up under this system. Some better than others. Some spent their own dime and came to see Parker often when he was in town like Dennis Conatser. Some came very late in the eighties and is the reason they are not on the family tree. The rest came after Parker's death. Most of the older seniors rejected it and/or left, and at least one Kenpo master from another style said, "Parker has gone Hollywood." In truth he had. Movies, TV, celeb students, etc. It worked. This was what he was sharing with a few private students in an effort to cash in on the publicity of Larry Tatum's student Jeff Speakman's movie, "Perfect Weapon." He hoped to rekindle a chain of schools that he directly financially controlled. All of his schools and his black belt students had defected years ago. He maintained only one profitable school run by Larry Tatum in the eighties.
5. "Ed Parker's Personal Kenpo"
The ever evolving personal art of Ed Parker that included elements left out of his commercial diversion or off shoot. (nerve meridians, mat work, manipulations, structural integrity, etc) This included all the things that students couldn't duplicate because Parker didn't generally teach it. Here lies all the things that some have discovered is missing from his diversion art that he never wrote about anywhere. "Slap-Check" comes to mind. I gave what he shared with me my own name after he passed based on phrases Parker used to describe it to differeniate between it and other versions of what he taught. However in reality it is the "American Kenpo" Parker was utilizing before he passed away that was still evolving. Others that he may have taught may have other names for it, but to understand it, a person would have had to evolve with Parker into it becuase of a lack of its hard codification.
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