Con-Artist Martial Artists

[jkdgenius]

Ok, I can't disagree with that

We'll I can but between you and I, I am choosing not to lol

 

[Headhunter]

Look don't get me wrong, I'm no caped crusader flying around the uk foiling the plans of crap instructors and clubs. In my original comment I said (or at least think I did) that they were friends kids. Not just people's kids I don't know about. But that did if I took my lad somewhere and it was turd 8d probably walk out of there loudly voicing my opinion just my distaste for all those bad pastpast experiences

Well then that'd make you extremely rude and disrespectful

 

[Headhunter]

Agreed. My daughter is on the lamest track team ever right now, but she's having a good time and it's better than playing Mario kart on her Nintendo Switch.

Absolutely I mean let's be honest most kids in any martial art school are going to end up quitting whether it's good or bad school I'd say over 70% will end up quitting but if those kids enjoy themselves for the hour they're training get a decent amount of exercise, meet new people then that's great. People need to realise not everything revolves around being able to take someone in a fight there's more to life than fighting

 

[jkdgenius]

Well then that'd make you extremely rude and disrespectful

Well maybe I'll just stand around the next time it happens (hope gof the life of me it doesn't) and not say anything and let friends waste their money? At least I'd be polite though

 

[Headhunter]

Well maybe I'll just stand around the next time it happens (hope gof the life of me it doesn't) and not say anything and let friends waste their money? At least I'd be polite though

In your opinion it's a waste of money but to them it isn't...and that's the point if they're happy with the service they're getting then it's none of your business if they ask your opinion sure then give it but if not let them get on with it as they're obviously happy with it and frankly if you start disrespecting an instructor in front of his class especially with his kids class then I'd have less respect for you than the teacher because to me that's the lowest thing you can do to disrespect a teacher while he's teaching a class

 

[JoeRoganforPres]

Let's be honest, if you're not competing against others, you'll never know if they're con artist. If your interested in a style for styles sake ie history or just passion, then do it. Just do your research on the school/ instructor before hand. General rule, if they look like this guy you're an idiot and you deserve to be conned.

 

[jkdgenius]

In your opinion it's a waste of money but to them it isn't...and that's the point if they're happy with the service they're getting then it's none of your business if they ask your opinion sure then give it but if not let them get on with it as they're obviously happy with it and frankly if you start disrespecting an instructor in front of his class especially with his kids class then I'd have less respect for you than the teacher because to me that's the lowest thing you can do to disrespect a teacher while he's teaching a class

Hmm, I think you may not know to the same level of which I have seen! Done pretty dire stuff... Look I'm not a rude person and no I wouldn't be so disrespectful to say something during a class, you're taking me out of context and way too literally there.

 

[JoeRoganforPres]

In your opinion it's a waste of money but to them it isn't...and that's the point if they're happy with the service they're getting then it's none of your business if they ask your opinion sure then give it but if not let them get on with it as they're obviously happy with it and frankly if you start disrespecting an instructor in front of his class especially with his kids class then I'd have less respect for you than the teacher because to me that's the lowest thing you can do to disrespect a teacher while he's teaching a class

I think you both need to calm down.

 

[Buka]

Just wanted to say - welcome to MartialTalk, Jkdgenius.

Welcome to MartialTalk JoeRog4pres. Hope you guys both enjoy it.

 

[jkdgenius]

Let's be honest, if you're not competing against others, you'll never know if they're con artist. If your interested in a style for styles sake ie history or just passion, then do it. Just do your research on the school/ instructor before hand. General rule, if they look like this guy you're an idiot and you deserve to be conned.

Haha, now this is the kinda response I was hoping for!! Haha, I'm actually a little speechless after watching that! Haha... More of that please

 

[Buka]

It definitely happens.

By the normal standards for assessing martial arts "phonies", Helio Gracie and his brothers could have definitely qualified. Carlos Gracie got no more than two years of instruction from either Mitsuo Maeda or one of Maeda's students. (The family says Maeda, but the time line suggests a student.) There is no record I know of that Carlos was actually awarded any formal belt rank from Maeda. Carlos's brothers (including Helio) learned from Carlos.

This limited instruction and lack of formal rank did not stop Helio from publicly claiming that he and his brothers were the only legitimate jiu-jitsu instructors in Brazil. At the beginning of his fight career, when his record was 0-0-1, he claimed to be the undisputed, undefeated Jiu-Jitsu champion of Brazil. When Judo started making significant inroads in Brazil, Helio claimed that Judo was nothing more than a watered down version of Jiu-Jitsu created to fool Westerners and that his family was the only Brazilian source of the real traditional Samurai art. (Later on, after his brothers died, Helio changed his tune and claimed to be the person who had single-handedly created BJJ by improving Judo to be more efficient and use better leverage.)

We'll not even get into the many examples of shadiness in the personal and business lives of the Gracie brothers.

If this was the whole story, then Helio and his brothers would be just another example of the dishonesty which often seems rampant in the martial arts world. But they did more than just making sketchy, grandiose claims to promote their art.

Starting with that minimal level of instruction, they trained their asses off. They taught lots of students and did lots of sparring in class on a daily basis. They engaged in plenty of challenge matches with other martial artists - in the ring, in the dojo, on the street, on the beach. They picked the brains of other martial artists they encountered and stole any concept or technique which they found useful. They produced a ridiculous number of offspring and trained them (at least the males) from an early age to be fighters and competitors and teachers.

The result - a sophisticated and highly effective martial art and a family of top-notch professional martial artists. (The Gracies were not solely responsible for the creation of BJJ, but they played a huge role in both the technical development and promotion of the art.)

As a BJJ instructor, I'm most familiar with the history of my art, but I've read things which suggest a similar process has played out in other styles as well.

There ain't one God damn thing I like about that post, Tony. But I'm sure I'll get over it.

 

[CB Jones]

Agreed. My daughter is on the lamest track team ever right now, but she's having a good time and it's better than playing Mario kart on her Nintendo Switch.

Mario Kart....

Mario Kart, Jagermeister, and chicks(not in that order) caused a lot of dropped classes back in my college days.

 

[JoeRoganforPres]

Absolutely I mean let's be honest most kids in any martial art school are going to end up quitting whether it's good or bad school I'd say over 70% will end up quitting but if those kids enjoy themselves for the hour they're training get a decent amount of exercise, meet new people then that's great. People need to realise not everything revolves around being able to take someone in a fight there's more to life than fighting

Agree but then pick another hobby. And don't label it self defence.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think what annoys me most is when I am having a martial arts conversation with someone who obviously doesn't know much on the subject. I refer to it as Blue Belt syndrome. A person knows enough to think they know all. I'm sure I was guilty of it too. WIth your years in JKD you can probably see right through someone who doesn't have that much experience but talks up like they do.

Oh god, I’m really glad there are no recordings of me from 25-30 years ago spouting off about martial arts matters that I thought I understood but really didn’t.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There ain't one God damn thing I like about that post, Tony. But I'm sure I'll get over it.

I think you probably agree with this part, don't you?

Starting with that minimal level of instruction, they trained their asses off. They taught lots of students and did lots of sparring in class on a daily basis. They engaged in plenty of challenge matches with other martial artists - in the ring, in the dojo, on the street, on the beach. They picked the brains of other martial artists they encountered and stole any concept or technique which they found useful. They produced a ridiculous number of offspring and trained them (at least the males) from an early age to be fighters and competitors and teachers.

The result - a sophisticated and highly effective martial art and a family of top-notch professional martial artists.

 

[Flying Crane]

Well maybe I'll just stand around the next time it happens (hope gof the life of me it doesn't) and not say anything and let friends waste their money? At least I'd be polite though

I wonder how many people are on the internet, bitching about you right now.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think what annoys me most is when I am having a martial arts conversation with someone who obviously doesn't know much on the subject. I refer to it as Blue Belt syndrome. A person knows enough to think they know all. I'm sure I was guilty of it too. WIth your years in JKD you can probably see right through someone who doesn't have that much experience but talks up like they do.

I know I was guilty of it. Less at blue belt (second belt in NGAA), but definitely by purple belt (4th belt in NGAA). By then, I was certain I knew tons. That was probably 20 years ago now, and I know less now than I thought I knew then.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm sorry but I just don't agree. Would you stand around and watch an elderly man or woman buy knock off double glazing at 3 X the price when there is a perfectly good store within zimmer frame distance offering superior quality for normal price?

Since I don't know much about any of that, yes. I'd be willing to admit maybe I don't understand what makes good glazing or whatever, nor what that person values in the product.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Plenty and you know due to my bad experiences I guess I'm maybe more burnt than others, which is why it gets to me. But at the same time if it smells like and looks like then it's probably haha

There's a school near me that I know is crap. They don't even look good in demos. But folks seem to like the school. If someone asks for my opinion, I'll tell them I think the technique is crap, but I've not seen anything that would cause harm in the school and folks seem to like training there. The only real harm is if folks think they're getting technique that is useful for a given purpose (I'm not sure the technique from that school is good for any purpose other than getting a body moving).

 

[Danny T]

By the normal standards for assessing martial arts "phonies", Helio Gracie and his brothers could have definitely qualified. Carlos Gracie got no more than two years of instruction from either Mitsuo Maeda or one of Maeda's students. (The family says Maeda, but the time line suggests a student.) There is no record I know of that Carlos was actually awarded any formal belt rank from Maeda. Carlos's brothers (including Helio) learned from Carlos.

This limited instruction and lack of formal rank did not stop Helio from publicly claiming that he and his brothers were the only legitimate jiu-jitsu instructors in Brazil.
they did more than just making sketchy, grandiose claims to promote their art.

Starting with that minimal level of instruction, they trained their asses off...

The result - a sophisticated and highly effective martial art and a family of top-notch professional martial artists...

As a BJJ instructor, I'm most familiar with the history of my art, but I've read things which suggest a similar process has played out in other styles as well.

Yeah and there is the Bruce Lee guy for one. Just over 2 years WC training came to the U.S. began teaching a martial art he created using his own name a few years later he then created another one.

As Tony stated there are others.