Can YOU Be Beaten?

[Zero]

Jenna

this is a great post!
There is always one day and one opponent when you can be beaten. It happens in the ring even to the Greats, Ali, Andy Hug, Ernesto, etc. A lucky/unlucky shot or a misread/mis-timing of a move, and bam, KO! Fight enough, on the street or in the ring, and you will eventually meet your equal/better, or just have a bad day!

When I fight (competion/ring) I have never worried about being beaten or loosing a competition. I have at times worried about being hurt, particularly when carrying injuries from previous tournaments not healed yet. I don't even think about "I must win this competition, fight, tournament". I do look at all times for the moment of knock out or submission, and that is that.
Who cares if someone/something is out there that can beat you, you're dreaming if you think otherwise; just get to it.

It is frustrating though and a self/mental challenge to overcome when you meet someone who can perpetually beat you, no matter how hard you train! - or maybe this indicates, there is even more training to be done. I am younger (not that that means a heck in itself!), fitter, equal in speed of strikes (almost, in most respects), and hopefully as intelligent/perceptive as my head trainer but for five years have not been able to beat him in serious sparring, despite having won numerous competions. This guy is just a naturally massive guy who has over ten more years fight experience than me; I am working on figuring other ways but have not cracked him yet.

 

[seasoned]

Sure you can...

That's why you should make avoidance your #1 priority.

Very good point, but just as an add on. Know when avoidance turns to violence, and be prepared to transition properly. Just a thought.

 

[zepedawingchun]

. . . .2. The other issue that bothers me quite a lot is what then am I supposed to do when I meet this opponent who has me matched and bettered blow-for-blow? What am I supposed to do then, having realised that THIS is the opponent we considered; that THIS is the opponent who is my defeater; that THIS is my Waterloo? Then what?

I would not for a moment suggest it wise to program ourselves into thinking that there is nobody who can beat us. What I am concerned about is what do we do when we meet this opponent that we KNOW; that we have ADMITTED to ourselves, we cannot possibly defeat?

The last paragraph first, you should never admit there is someone who can defeat you because if you do, you've already lost. Admit you are not invinceable, and there is someone, somewhere, capable of beating you, but with each altercation, don't believe you can be defeated until this opponent proves otherwise. A lot of times, the fight is in your head, and if you think negatively about it, then you will lose. If we encounter that one on a given day we know can defeat us, why be party to the situation?

Now the first paragraph, I'm either going to defeat them in the first few seconds or they're going to defeat me. I don't want to go blow for blow with someone. What happens if they hit like Mike Tyson (in his early boxing years), I'm not going to be able to take much punishment. One of my reasons for martial arts training is to finish the altercation as soon and as quickly as possible, with the least amount of pain and damage to me. If you're trading blow for blow, equal skill, what's the use of fighting? Call it quits, truce, whatever, go out and buy your opponent a cup of coffee. Sit, talk about martial arts training.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is why I walk around with a grenade.

Ahhh then I bow to you skill… and armaments :asian:

That wouldn't be the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch would it

 

[Bruno@MT]

The last paragraph first, you should never admit there is someone who can defeat you because if you do, you've already lost.

Otoh, if you acknowledge the fact that you are NOT invincible, you might be inclined to avoid fights whenever you can, instead of letting pride or ego get you into one.

 

[Tez3]

Otoh, if you acknowledge the fact that you are NOT invincible, you might be inclined to avoid fights whenever you can, instead of letting pride or ego get you into one.

Very true!

 

[MJS]

I am very grateful for all your posts, even you naughty people mucking about in my classroom discussion! Yes I see you down the back there haha!!

Well yes I too had thought it prudent to admit; I too accept that it is statistically highly likely that there was an opponent harder and faster etc than I. In other words, yes, there is almost certainly someone out there who can take me..

Yet..

There are two things that bother me bout this:

1. If I have admitted that I can be beaten [no matter how probable] then have I not weakened my own psychological position from the get-go?

2. The other issue that bothers me quite a lot is what then am I supposed to do when I meet this opponent who has me matched and bettered blow-for-blow? What am I supposed to do then, having realised that THIS is the opponent we considered; that THIS is the opponent who is my defeater; that THIS is my Waterloo? Then what?

I would not for a moment suggest it wise to program ourselves into thinking that there is nobody who can beat us. What I am concerned about is what do we do when we meet this opponent that we KNOW; that we have ADMITTED to ourselves, we cannot possibly defeat?

Thank you all again,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Janna

1) The thing is, in this case, you're recognizing your weak spots. I have weak spots and I do my best to work the hell out of them. IMO, its much better to see what the weak spots are and work them during training, than to find out later on.

2) Always give 100% no matter what. I may be getting my *** kicked, but I'm not going down without a fight. . The other person will have a reminder or two of me.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I have been beaten many times both in fighting and in other areas like sports or activities. I have also beaten others both in fights and other areas too. Even someone I beat one time beat me the second time but as long as you give it all you got and had heart you were respected by your opponent. I recall when I was in Japan studying martial arts and having a conversation with my mother-inlaw about the techniques I learned in the middle of me explaining out of nowhere she smacked me joking saying"if you are so great how come you can't dodge an old lady's hand?"

 

[zepedawingchun]

Is it prudent to admit there will always be an opponent capable of beating you?

Or does such an admission lessen your chances of defeating that opponent should you ever encounter him?

Thank you for reading
Always,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

The original question was about whether admitting there is always an opponent capable of beating you will effect the outcome beforehand, your losing. Not whether you should avoid a fight or prevent a fight from happening because your ego won't let it go.

The question states an opponent is encountered, meaning the fight has already begun. So now, will your preconceived notion that there is always someone better possibly lessen your chance of victory? Most definitely YES!

Just like you are what you eat, you are what you think. If you think negatively, the outcome will be negative. In a combat situation (fight or altercation, whatever) you need to be as positive as possible. It's alright to know there is always someone, somewhere out there, better than you. But don't think this new challenge IS that person who can defeat you before the conflict begins and they prove it to you. Because if you do, then you will most assuredly lose.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Most people can beat me but unless they killed me I'd come back when they weren't looking and hit them round the head with a baseball bat.

Seriously, old and sneaky beats young and fit everytime. In a fair fight I'd get beaten but, frankly, I wouldn't fight fair.

Tes,

Your comment makes me think of a quote from the character Jayne Cobb from teh TV series Firefly,

"I'll kill a man in a fair fight, or if i think he'll start a fair fight"


As for me, I cheat, to survive and would cheat with no questions asked. Could I say they beat me literally and figuratively? Yes.
But I learned a long time ago, the ones I walk away from before or after contact are the ones I call a win. But I am honest, and always tell people I got my butt kicked when I did, but I survived.



Thanks

 

[BLACK LION]

From my perspective which is purely combative in nature I have to be the better killer when its my life or the life of another on the line... This has something to do with my military background and everything to do with the warrior path I chose long ago...
I have to forget about my worldly weakness yet exploit all of my enemies weaknesses... I understand they may take a piece of me but I will take everything from them...
I understand that if my actions are selfless, right and just then there are forces beyond my human ability at work at that moment... Regardless of the outcome, there will be a lasting impression that will continue to echo through time and space long beyond my days...

I am afraid but I understand there is no getting around it...but there IS getting over it... My life is in the LORDS hands and if I am to meet my demise by his will then I will gladly fight until my blood runs dry... He will give me the strength, courage and sound mind to do what needs to be done and if giving my life is part of the process then so be it...
I understand that it is "evil" I am up against and I am there to show no quarter regardless of whats amassed against me...


forgive the rant....

 

[BLACK LION]

Btw...there are alot of good points here....

 

[BLACK LION]

I am very grateful for all your posts, even you naughty people mucking about in my classroom discussion! Yes I see you down the back there haha!!

Well yes I too had thought it prudent to admit; I too accept that it is statistically highly likely that there was an opponent harder and faster etc than I. In other words, yes, there is almost certainly someone out there who can take me..

Yet..

There are two things that bother me bout this:

1. If I have admitted that I can be beaten [no matter how probable] then have I not weakened my own psychological position from the get-go?
This is my dilema as well... you have to train the "mindset" first and if that "mindset" is "I can be beat" then the defeatism is already ingrained in the training... at least in a combative sense...
In a competitive sense...yes, anyone can be beat on any given day but you train hard and get back up when you get put down and you keep comin till you cant anymore...
BUT... Combat and competition are totally different things when it comes to mindset even though there may be some similarities...
I am a worst case scenario or shtf kinds guy , so my training is bast on combat rather than competition and so is my mindset...


2. The other issue that bothers me quite a lot is what then am I supposed to do when I meet this opponent who has me matched and bettered blow-for-blow? What am I supposed to do then, having realised that THIS is the opponent we considered; that THIS is the opponent who is my defeater; that THIS is my Waterloo? Then what? Personally I wouldnt stand in the face of anyone and tell myself this is my defeater... I would already have a plan to kill him based on his structure and stature...
Remember, Survival is the key to valor... and a successfull escape in a victory in a sense, when playing the ultimate game... wether its agress or egress it must be violent and completely unconventional... You are superman, until you are dead...

I would not for a moment suggest it wise to program ourselves into thinking that there is nobody who can beat us. What I am concerned about is what do we do when we meet this opponent that we KNOW; that we have ADMITTED to ourselves, we cannot possibly defeat? I never look at anyone and say..."he can beat me" or "hes the one that I cant beat" ... Instead I would much rather explore the myriad of ways i can take him or them...

Thank you all again,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Janna

Forgive me, I am completely one-sided when it comes to mindset and thats the reason I refrain from social or antisocial altercations... I do not compete or seek to compete any longer either... I understand that there is bigger, stronger, faster and smarter out there and I prepare to face that threat or multi-threat...when it comes I wont be playing by the rules that govern thier prowess or ability over mine...
All creatures are equal in injury and trauma....

 

[celtic_crippler]

"In the end it matters not who is right, it matters who is left." -SGM Ed Parker

 

[Nomad]

Is it prudent to admit there will always be an opponent capable of beating you?

Or does such an admission lessen your chances of defeating that opponent should you ever encounter him?

Prudent? If we're talking about tournaments, I'd say that denying it would be a serious sign of delusion in my case.

There are two things that bother me bout this:

1. If I have admitted that I can be beaten [no matter how probable] then have I not weakened my own psychological position from the get-go?

I see it differently. Admitting that there is someone bigger, stronger and faster is a great motivational technique to work harder to make yourself bigger, stronger and faster, so fewer people fit into this category...

2. The other issue that bothers me quite a lot is what then am I supposed to do when I meet this opponent who has me matched and bettered blow-for-blow? What am I supposed to do then, having realised that THIS is the opponent we considered; that THIS is the opponent who is my defeater; that THIS is my Waterloo? Then what?

Either find a quick exit or take him/her with you. Seriously, if you know you're outmatched, don't get into the fight. If the person is determined to seriously harm you, look into the not so deadly art of nike-do. If that's not an option, then as others have said, make them pay dearly for the opportunity of beating you.

There are many stories of smaller, weaker opponents taking out attackers who anyone would think had the clear advantage. The odds are never hopeless, though they can be stacked against you.

 

[Jenna]

Some of you are very clever and insightful bout this thank you again. I am grateful to have such experience and advice around me it makes it a pleasure to be here you are all very special people thank you.. You have encouraged me to post the one last on this so blame yourselves haha..

And I do not want to annoy or upset anybody thinking I am playing games.. I would not change the scenario; the scenario is always the same.. You have admitted [it being prudent to do so] that you can be defeated. You are not arrogant in matters of your defence. Confident, yes. Experienced, yes. And but accepting that the potential exists somewhere somehow for your defeat. You are sensible bout that. Nobody could argue..

Please imagine then now that you are not talking possibilities, rather you ARE encountering this opponent that you envisaged. He IS real. He has no mind to chat, to have a drink, to be civil, to chill, to lighten up, to philosophise, or to hear your half-assed reasoning. He is here for you unlike a nightmare creature that you can even ask “why”. This is it. There is no extrication or egress when you are already caught. Instinct then. Your very best move has just done NOTHING to him. You see all your options struck off. Perhaps this is your epiphany moment and you understand that this is check AND mate. All your arsenal is rendered second-rate with him. There can be no disbelief that such a thing could happen when you have already established the possibility in your head. This is you. There is no time to rethink. Time is all up. What are you going to do? What? Submit? Surrender?

If you say this is nonsensical and unrealistic then I would just say that it is a metaphor on other things maybe. You know like maybe when you hit a brick-wall scenario at work, what do you do? Admit defeat? Give up your job? Maybe sometimes that is expedient. Most times I think that option is unavailable. I would ask how do you find something extra within you that EVEN YOU did not know you had? Is that even possible or is it just pure fanciful? What is that something extra? Can it be quantified?

Ah you are going to be sick of me now that is ok and but I hope not because I value what you are all saying.
Always
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Janna

 

[AMP-RYU]

"You can beat me down 100 times, but will never break me! For I am resilient, and will never give up!"

 

[K-man]

Please imagine then now that you are not talking possibilities, rather you ARE encountering this opponent that you envisaged. He IS real. He has no mind to chat, to have a drink, to be civil, to chill, to lighten up, to philosophise, or to hear your half-assed reasoning. He is here for you unlike a nightmare creature that you can even ask “why”. This is it. There is no extrication or egress when you are already caught. Instinct then. Your very best move has just done NOTHING to him. You see all your options struck off. Perhaps this is your epiphany moment and you understand that this is check AND mate. All your arsenal is rendered second-rate with him. There can be no disbelief that such a thing could happen when you have already established the possibility in your head. This is you. There is no time to rethink. Time is all up. What are you going to do? What? Submit? Surrender?

If you say this is nonsensical and unrealistic then I would just say that it is a metaphor on other things maybe. You know like maybe when you hit a brick-wall scenario at work, what do you do? Admit defeat? Give up your job? Maybe sometimes that is expedient. Most times I think that option is unavailable. I would ask how do you find something extra within you that EVEN YOU did not know you had? Is that even possible or is it just pure fanciful? What is that something extra? Can it be quantified?

Perhaps we could look at it from the other side. Your opponent has looked at the situation and has decided, rightly or wrongly, that he can beat you. He must go through this process, and the reason he goes through this process is that he also knows he can be beaten.
So, he picks you. Sorry Jenna, you're now on your own against this big strong ugly thug and he doesn't want to socialise. He doesn't know how good you are. His appraisal is that he can take you out and is not expecting a close fight, see his decision above. So he attacks and you're both into it, you're up against the wall and your strength is failing. You know you are in deep s#^t ... but he doesn't know that. He is surprised that you have lasted this long. He had planned just to beat you to pulp, not get hit back. Because he knows that out there there is someone better that him, suddenly he thinks that it could be you and he has doubts. You manage to hit him on that vital point you learnt last week and he goes down, just long enough for you to stomp on his ankle and run away.
You have survived because you didn't give up.
There's a script for a movie here somewhere ... "Jenna takes Goliath", priceless.

 

[Tez3]

A few years back there was an altercation among colleagues of mine, it happens lol, the guys were both ex forces so a fist fight isn't that unusual. Anyway one guy hit the other, a rather nice right hook which caught the other square on the jaw, now he should have gone down but he didn't, he did the Bruce Lee thing and just looked at the guy who hit him! That was a big moment of panic for the hitter, he'd just given it his best shot and it had no effect. He began backing away apologising profusely with us laughing, he didn't get hit back though, he knew he'd been beaten.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Is it prudent to admit there will always be an opponent capable of beating you?

Or does such an admission lessen your chances of defeating that opponent should you ever encounter him?

Thank you for reading
Always,
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Both.......hope that answers your question.

Seriously, acknowledging you are not indestructible is good in AVOIDING certain situations........conversely, however, internalizing that knowledge can help ensure your defeat if actually confronted by a violent situation.

About the best answer is to avoid violent situations if feasible........but have a trigger whereby any thought of failure is banished when confronted by violence, understanding that in some situations violence will save you where caution will not.