Are women disadvantaged in striking arts/styles?

[Dirty Dog]

Yes Dirty Dog, I believe that point may have been brought up once or twice before. As has certain things that might actually be to a woman`s advantage believe it or not.

Did you have extra snidesauce on your lutefisk this morning?

I`d like to ask the other boys around here a question: have you ever lost a sparring match against a woman (disadvantaged as they are) due to overconfidence?

No. When I did much in the way of competitive sparring Back In The Day, matches were split by gender as well as size. Still are, from my experience, at least insofar as tournaments go. Within the dojang, we mix up partners regardless of size/gender/rank.
Nowadays, if I'm sparring someone (regardless of their chromosomes) I've either trained them, trained with them, or been trained by them. So there's never a reason to be surprised by their level of skill.

I`ll go first, I have, more than once too, and not only were they women they were also lower ranked than me and I got beaten fair and square due to ego.

I can see the possibility of going into a match against someone I didn't know and making a poor assessment of their skills going in, but I'd like to think I'd figure that mistake out pretty quick once the match started. Certainly in less than one round. Was this a one-shot and you're out sort of thing?

 

[Tez3]

Size wasn't the only consideration. The other was cultural and societal mores that caused men to treat women differently while training.

I take it you don't grapple with soldiers then because they treat men and women exactly the same, the women have proved they are up to the mark ( in Iraq and Afghan amongst other places like Sierra Leone) so they get treated exactly the same in sports too, no quarter given in training, besides the men know it doesn't do the women any favours to go 'soft'.

 

[Hanzou]

I can only speak from personal experience, but at my club male students get over that pretty quickly. When they don't, they learn a pretty quick lesson similar to Tez's student.

Cool.

I simply pointed that out because of the two ladies in the OP vid getting tooled by the male black belt to such a degree that many observers thought it was cruel. Clearly they had been handled with kid gloves throughout their martial journey.

 

[Cirdan]

Did you have extra snidesauce on your lutefisk this morning?

Just raw tørrfisk but no knife around so breakfast was a mighty battle.

(snip)

I can see the possibility of going into a match against someone I didn't know and making a poor assessment of their skills going in, but I'd like to think I'd figure that mistake out pretty quick once the match started. Certainly in less than one round. Was this a one-shot and you're out sort of thing?

Do you see that possibility being greater with a female opponent?

One of the times was a one-shot-out, others were not. They were not regular training partners however so poor assessment might be a factor as you say.

 

[Tez3]

Cool.

I simply pointed that out because of the two ladies in the OP vid getting tooled by the male black belt to such a degree that many observers thought it was cruel. Clearly they had been handled with kid gloves throughout their martial journey.

Oh my days, they weren't getting 'tooled' in that video, if they were, it would make it a porn film.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Do you see that possibility being greater with a female opponent?

Honestly, no. Could it have been a factor when I was young & dumb? Sure, I suppose. I was as stupid and biased as any teenager.

One of the times was a one-shot-out, others were not. They were not regular training partners however so poor assessment might be a factor as you say.

The times that is was not BOOM-WTFJUSTHAPPENED??? what prevented you from realizing you'd misjudged them and correcting yourself? I'm assuming it wasn't just a case of being beaten by a more skilled opponent - that happens to everybody - because if it was, I don't think you'd have said you were beaten by ego.

 

[Cirdan]

The times that is was not BOOM-WTFJUSTHAPPENED??? what prevented you from realizing you'd misjudged them and correcting yourself? I'm assuming it wasn't just a case of being beaten by a more skilled opponent - that happens to everybody - because if it was, I don't think you'd have said you were beaten by ego.

Is it not obvious? I used moves which I thought were "sufficient" rather than what would have been optimal. Correcting yourself is not always that easy either if you are on a wrong track while sparring plus it is not like we went several rounds with time to evaluate strategy. Now I dare say I underestimate opponents far less often these days and keep my ego out of sight, but I was by no means a kid when this happened and I refuse to believe I am the only one this could happen to -multiple times no less.

 

[kodora81]

Cool.

I simply pointed that out because of the two ladies in the OP vid getting tooled by the male black belt to such a degree that many observers thought it was cruel. Clearly they had been handled with kid gloves throughout their martial journey.

Cool.

Maybe they *had* been treated with kid gloves. Or maybe they were tired. Or who knows. One video doesn't really make much of a larger point.

I'm not sure why the comments under the video are so important to you, yet you seem so resistant to take any comments from this thread to heart.

 

[Hanzou]

Cool.

Maybe they *had* been treated with kid gloves. Or maybe they were tired. Or who knows. One video doesn't really make much of a larger point.

I'm not sure why the comments under the video are so important to you, yet you seem so resistant to take any comments from this thread to heart.

Actually I disagree. You can tell a lot from that video. Fatigue doesn't explain things like poor form/technique, flinching, and other fundamental problems. I have other videos which show similar results involving women in striking arts.

I find the comments under the video a bit more objective than the comments here. Unfortunately some here are quite a bit more biased for a variety of reasons.

 

[K-man]

Actually I disagree. You can tell a lot from that video. Fatigue doesn't explain things like poor form/technique, flinching, and other fundamental problems. I have other videos which show similar results involving women in striking arts.

I find the comments under the video a bit more objective than the comments here. Unfortunately some here are quite a bit more biased for a variety of reasons.

Really ...

The higher black belt is obviously way more experienced. I don't like the way he conducts himself. How about keeping your hands up and not acting like his opponents are inferior ... They may not be as good or experienced yet, but they held their own. He obviously has a chip on his shoulder .... They were testing, let them test... Make them work hard for it, but don't belittle them with your actions.

Hmm, the dude is stronger, faster, has longer range and is CLEARLY more experienced. Sounds like every belt test i've ever been in. Train all day, be really lovely exhausted and then have to fight someone who's fresh and has been training for a decade longer. I can't blame those girls at all, but it would have been nice to see one of them really drill him just once.

What a bunch of wussies! You guys think that just because she's a female that she OBVIOUSLY can't handle the fight! That's what's wrong with our society! Martial Arts are FIGHTING sports! And personally, given the current violent times we live in, a woman BETTER be able to hold her own against an attacker! I say, kudos to her for giving as good as she's getting! When I was in Shotokan, those women were hardcore. When I was in Shorin Ryu, those women were hardcore. Get over it people, I've seen a LOT worse! Look at BJJ, those guys don't go soft just because it's a woman! They get choked out just like the men. You fight like you train and train like you fight!
GEEZ!

This black belt is being a disrespectful arrogant jerk.

There are quite a few objective comments under the video, plus a number from people who think like you.

 

[ballen0351]

Cool.

Maybe they *had* been treated with kid gloves. Or maybe they were tired. Or who knows. One video doesn't really make much of a larger point.

I'm not sure why the comments under the video are so important to you, yet you seem so resistant to take any comments from this thread to heart.

I would + Rep the crap out of this on the old system Nice post

 

[drop bear]

Cool.

I simply pointed that out because of the two ladies in the OP vid getting tooled by the male black belt to such a degree that many observers thought it was cruel. Clearly they had been handled with kid gloves throughout their martial journey.

not really. It could be but it doesn't have to. Look up prince nazeem.

good strikers can frustrate you.

 

[drop bear]

Actually I disagree. You can tell a lot from that video. Fatigue doesn't explain things like poor form/technique, flinching, and other fundamental problems. I have other videos which show similar results involving women in striking arts.

I find the comments under the video a bit more objective than the comments here. Unfortunately some here are quite a bit more biased for a variety of reasons.

i flinch when sparring my coach in mma when he is in fight prep.

the reason is every time i enter i get cracked in the head hard. Which Sucks. Which makes me second guess my entries.

now normally i could just staunch up and bang. But if I do that i am in real danger of getting knocked out. And he is better at that too.

so i am in this loose loose situation which becomes very mentally challenging. Intuitively i just want to run away. But if I am not progressing the fight then i become a target and get picked off.

long story short. You include striking with a good fighter you are going to look like that chick as well.

and grappling wont save you.

 

[drop bear]

not really. It could be but it doesn't have to. Look up prince nazeem.

good strikers can frustrate you.

or look up Forrest griffon Anderson silva

 

[Hanzou]

You include striking with a good fighter you are going to look like that chick as well.

Actually, I would never perform a strike with my head completely turned away from my target with my eyes closed.

So no, I wouldn't look like those girls no matter how good my opponent is.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Here is norwegian Cecilia Brækhus, one of those poor weak disadvantaged women.

I like how similar her name is to 'break us'.

 

[Dinkydoo]

i flinch when sparring my coach in mma when he is in fight prep.

the reason is every time i enter i get cracked in the head hard. Which Sucks. Which makes me second guess my entries.

so i am in this loose loose situation which becomes very mentally challenging. Intuitively i just want to run away. But if I am not progressing the fight then i become a target and get picked off.

long story short. You include striking with a good fighter you are going to look like that chick as well

Every. Single. Time - sparring with a friend who's also an instructor. He's bigger than me and much more skilled so its really a case of when I'm going to get hit hard rather than if. It can be very tough mentally. On one hand I'm trying not to be hesitant, commit to my strikes and fight without tension and on the other I know that at some point I'm going to be made to pay for not being quite fast enough or too predictable.

At times my friend probably looks like he's just playing with a beginner with only one months experience but the reality is that I'm actually quite competent when matched up with most other students in classes I attend.

Downside: I look like a rabbit caught in headlights at the time.

Upside: Every time I spar with someone practically the same height as me, mentally, I feel that I have an advantage - and I usually perform well. That and nobody films me getting schooled by an instructor and puts it on YouTube!

I wouldnt be surprised to hear that these two women have a similar experience.

 

[Tez3]

Actually, I would never perform a strike with my head completely turned away from my target with my eyes closed.

So no, I wouldn't look like those girls no matter how good my opponent is.

ROFLMAO. So, post a video up of you sparring then........prove it!

 

[Hanzou]

and grappling wont save you.

I would also like to add that grappling can save you if you're dealing with someone who is unfamiliar with it. Honestly that's a bigger portion of the population than those unfamiliar with striking. Far more people know how to punch and kick than to grapple or throw. Simply the nature of the beast.

The best example I've seen of this was a pretty highly trained security guard going against some untrained thug in a street brawl;

The unskilled striker was still able trade blows significantly well with more skilled striker. Why? Because the principles of striking are simply more familiar to the general population than grappling is.

 

[Dinkydoo]

The unskilled striker was still able trade blows significantly well with more skilled striker. Why? Because the principles of striking are simply more familiar to the general population than grappling is.

Hanzou, the guy got his *** absolutely handed to him. Had it carried on he could and probably would have been seriously injured - going by the strikes landed ratio between the two.

Any untrained fighter with a rough idea of what to do in a confrontation can sometimes get away with being less trained - THAT'S really the nature of the beast. I've been put on the ground when free sparring a few times myself, but I've survived without tapping out occassionally. Okay, not always and I don't look particularly competent on the ground with an experienced grappler but neither did that guy fighting with the police officer.