Are women disadvantaged in striking arts/styles?

[Tez3]

Maybe you missed this Steve.

Steve usually doesn't read what I write, he presumes to know what I'm thinking, reads things I don't into what I write and worse to my mind presumes to know what emotions I feel. In fact he makes up a whole different personality for me which simply doesn't fit. It is just so much easier to put him back on ignore, I learnt long ago not to waste getting upset with things one can do nothing about, it's simply not worth it, that includes anything on the internet.
However like a dog with a bone he won't stop picking up on things I say for a while yet.

 

[Dirty Dog]

People, is there any chance we could turn this back to the OP?

Women are not inherently disadvantaged in striking arts. Size and strength carry some advantage, but there are both large/strong women and small/weak men. Training can overcome disparities of size/strength to some extent.

 

[tshadowchaser]

How do I put this politely? Oh I know. Everyone knock of the personal jabs and get back to the main subject of the OP.
If you do not like the other persons comments put them on ignore.
I'm was trying to read this thread but got lost in the back and forth banter from a few of you

 

[ballen0351]

People, is there any chance we could turn this back to the OP?

Women are not inherently disadvantaged in striking arts. Size and strength carry some advantage, but there are both large/strong women and small/weak men. Training can overcome disparities of size/strength to some extent.

Honestly you answered the OPs question right there. The question was flawed from the start and was answered along time ago.

 

[Hanzou]

People, is there any chance we could turn this back to the OP?

Women are not inherently disadvantaged in striking arts. Size and strength carry some advantage, but there are both large/strong women and small/weak men. Training can overcome disparities of size/strength to some extent.

Well if the average size of an American man is 5'10, 192lbs, and the average size of an American woman is 5'4, 160lbs, and if men naturally have more muscle mass than women, that's definitely an inherent disadvantage. That means that on average, a man can outreach, hit harder, and overpower a woman.

 

[geezer]

Well if the average size of an American man is 5'10, 192lbs, and the average size of an American woman is 5'4, 160lbs, and if men naturally have more muscle mass than women, that's definitely an inherent disadvantage. That means that on average, a man can outreach, hit harder, and overpower a woman.

Correct. So the question is to what degree can technique and attitude overcome this discrepancy? So much depends on the individual. Tez says she's 5'4' tall, 9 stone (126 lbs.) and 61. I'm 5'8", 175 lbs and only 59. But if we sparred, you can be darned sure I'd keep my guard up. Total respect, Tez!

 

[tonyjw86]

Whew boy I didn't mean to offend anyone. I see everyones point here. To clarify striking might not have been the best term maybe something more realistic pressure. Close to what you would with a male partner for the females advantage.

 

[ballen0351]

Whew boy I didn't mean to offend anyone. I see everyones point here. To clarify striking might not have been the best term maybe something more realistic pressure. Close to what you would with a male partner for the females advantage.

Why are you going different for a male vs female? I train police officers at the Academy and on the streets. I go the same no matter who I'm working with. And I make sure my students go the same as well. You go easy on one of my female student you will quickly feel that was a mistake. If your going light in females in class your doing then a disservice. I've also been in some nasty fights with woman when I arrest then because I was going easy on them and that was a mistake. Now everyone is treated the same.

 

[tonyjw86]

My original post was taken a bit out of context. With this I was just trying to clarify that what I meant was women are at a disadvantage in class when not treated like and equal.

 

[ballen0351]

My original post was taken a bit out of context. With this I was just trying to clarify that what I meant was women are at a disadvantage in class when not treated like and equal.

The only time I go easy on people I base it on their skill level not their gender or even size. A new guy or girl I'll go easier on since they are still learning.

 

[Steve]

Whew boy I didn't mean to offend anyone. I see everyones point here. To clarify striking might not have been the best term maybe something more realistic pressure. Close to what you would with a male partner for the females advantage.

I think most people understood. Glad you came back to clear things up.

 

[tonyjw86]

I think most people understood. Glad you came back to clear things up.

Thanks Steve.

 

[seasoned]

Whew boy I didn't mean to offend anyone. I see everyones point here. To clarify striking might not have been the best term maybe something more realistic pressure. Close to what you would with a male partner for the females advantage.

Thanks tonyjw86 for coming back on and explaining. We also have a meet and greet thread where you can introduce yourself to the martial talk members if you haven't already.

 

[Tez3]

My original post was taken a bit out of context. With this I was just trying to clarify that what I meant was women are at a disadvantage in class when not treated like and equal.

Kudos for coming back, however your post was crystal clear in that you advocated hitting women hard until they lost their tempers to make them come out of their shells, no wiggle room there for misunderstandings. I think though you've had time to think since reading the replies so that has to be good. Hopefully you don't still think it's a good idea!

 

[tonyjw86]

Kudos for coming back, however your post was crystal clear in that you advocated hitting women hard until they lost their tempers to make them come out of their shells, no wiggle room there for misunderstandings. I think though you've had time to think since reading the replies so that has to be good. Hopefully you don't still think it's a good idea!

Jeez its called a striking art. I used the term striking as in training. My sister is my training partner. We talk about this all the time. You're taking it out of context, period.

 

[Tez3]

Yes women are disadvantage because of muscle mass and strength but also because of the way most (not all) are babied in class. Men hold back because they don't actually wan't to hurt a women. Women also don't want to hurt each other. This holds them back from training their full potential. It sounds bad but making a women mad by striking her really helps her come out of her shell and use some force.

Ok so which bit of this am I taking out of context? You advocate hitting a woman hard to make her come out of her shell. You advocate making a woman mad. You advocate using some force.

How is striking anyone hard to make them angry ever going to be a good idea?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ok so which bit of this am I taking out of context? You advocate hitting a woman hard to make her come out of her shell. You advocate making a woman mad. You advocate using some force.

How is striking anyone hard to make them angry ever going to be a good idea?

You throw real attacks at wanna be cops, not matter what the sex. They are trying to cops for God's sake.

 

[Tez3]

You throw real attacks at wanna be cops, not matter what the sex. They are trying to cops for God's sake.

Ah but dear friend we aren't talking about baby cops but karate beginners, whole different thing. Besides as I can testify the sort of women who join police forces don't tend to the sort who need to be taken out of their shell, they'd fail their first interviews for training if they were.

 

[Steve]

Tez, why are you having a go at the new guy? He's already explained what he meant. Take everything you said to me and apply it to yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[K-man]

I can't speak for sporting martial arts but the object of a self defence art is to not get hit. Learning how to take a hit can its own set of problems, such as the tendency to want to exchange blows in a 'fight' or get a false sense of security because they have only have ever been hit with padded gloves on their body armour and therefore think getting hit skin on skin is the same. In a self defence situation you can not afford to get hit even once. There is a big difference in getting hit in sparring and getting hit by an attacker in the proverbial street. Exactly how does a small man or woman, or child learn to take a hit from a 300 pound street thug or someone with a weapon? How do you learn to take a hit in the groin, throat or spine?

The objective of self defence might be not to get hit. The first objective of self defence is not to be in that situation in the first place. However, having said that it is totally unrealistic to go into a fight and expect not to get hit. We rarely use gloves and almost never wear padding. I expect people (students) to gradually increase the power of their punches (to the body) until the are pretty much hitting as hard as they can. Someone accidently smacks me in the head, fine, I should have defended myself better even though he wasn't deliberately targeting the head. We need to be able to take reasonably hard hits without being fazed. Now when it comes to smaller guys. Suck it in sunshine, on the street your size won't protect you and that includes sucker punches that you don't see coming. Children, totally different matter. I don't know what you can do about that these days. Back in the 50s we had the 'Police Boys Clubs' where we learned boxing. You learned to hit and be hit but I'm not sure that our 'cotton wool society' takes to kindly to that sort of thing these days. I've given up teaching kids.

Which brings us back to women and in fact the OP. In training I expect the lower ranked student to control the intensity of any contact. Sexist or not, I would do the same thing with a woman. There are other complications as well like not targeting the chest. I think each case will probably by different but as Tez pointed out, deliberately hitting a woman to make her mad to bring out the best in her is a totally flawed concept. Now I actually do have a female student who is waiting to join the police force. She is training with us because there is very little contact training in the police academy. Over the next months I will lift the intensity of her training because ultimately her life could depend on it. If a 300 pound thug decides to take her on and she can't reach her gun she may well cop a big hit. Hopefully the conditioning we train might make it less of an issue than if she was not used to being punched.

Training to receive shots to the throat and groin ... not for the normal person but ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pB7gnB31NnI

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