You WILL get cut if someone has a knife. I disagree....

[Gerry Seymour]

i agree on that & that´s why i say a knife attack never happens like in a Dojo. exactly what Emin Boztepe was saying in the video i posted. A slight change of an angle ..you´re cut. This is why i now am looking more at escrima.

I'm a bit confused - nothing I said had anything to do with knives or how knife attacks happen in a dojo. My comments were around the training forms used in NGA.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You "Supposed" to be a master, right? You still got injured one out of 3 times. You sure you did not got slight cut the other two times. Saying one won't get even a slight cut is not believable.

If OP said no serious cut, maybe it's more believable, but not even a small cut? I cannot even say I won't cut myself shaving for sure.

Not even a scratch.

This is the statement you made:

As long as there is a contact, there will be some sort of cutting.

Which is based on two false assumptions.
First, it assumes that contact can only occur with the sharpened portion of the blade.
Second, it assumes a degree of sharpness that, in my experience, isn't at all common.

The big difference in these three encounters was how I responded.
In the first, I followed the "do what they tell you" advice that is taught to kids. And I got hurt.
In both others, I did not. I responded aggressively and immediately when the knife was drawn. And I didn't get hurt.

 

[Jimmythebull]

I'm a bit confused - nothing I said had anything to do with knives or how knife attacks happen in a dojo. My comments were around the training forms used in NGA.

OK .. you mentioned swords & dealing with them in old times & how it transforms or can to open hand. Basically what Emin was talking about & teaches.
look at escrima & think about my post

 

[Gerry Seymour]

OK .. you mentioned swords & dealing with them in old times & how it transforms or can to open hand. Basically what Emin was talking about & teaches.
look at escrima & think about my post

I have some training in FMA, so I'm familiar with the concept.

 

[Jimmythebull]

I have some training in FMA, so I'm familiar with the concept.

well then why ask about my post? you can carry on with this childish attitude or move on Gerry.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well then why ask about my post? you can carry on with this childish attitude or move on Gerry.

Because your post seemed a non sequitur to my post. I still don't get where you got the link to how knife attacks are trained in the dojo from the origin of a set of training forms.

As for the rest, you seem awfully argumentative, just looking for things to call names about. It's a forum, so maybe relax a bit.

 

[Jimmythebull]

awfully argumentative,

actually you seem to follow me & try to provoke a reaction. honestly grow up.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I think a lot of these things are blanket statements that are henpful to some, harmful to others, and most free-thinking people will be relatively unaffected. Let's take for example: "If you try to disarm someone, 100% chance you get shot."

There is no 100% in life, especially when defending an edged weapon. I would say there is a high probability of getting some sort of cut or stab against a (non-moron) knifeman. Maybe 50%, 80% depending on skill levels. Even just 30% is "high" IMO, if that results in serious injury. Of course, if you are fighting for your life, you have no choice but to accept the risk.

I think the main point is that there is little margin of error when going against a knife. Your moves must be especially crisp and clean and done decisively. The timing in closing with the opponent must be just right. Even so, inadvertent contact can occur resulting in minor damage, requiring just a few stitches. I would try to follow this rule: Respect the knife but don't let it make you tentative.

 

[Alan0354]

Not even a scratch.

This is the statement you made:


Which is based on two false assumptions.
First, it assumes that contact can only occur with the sharpened portion of the blade.
Second, it assumes a degree of sharpness that, in my experience, isn't at all common.

The big difference in these three encounters was how I responded.
In the first, I followed the "do what they tell you" advice that is taught to kids. And I got hurt.
In both others, I did not. I responded aggressively and immediately when the knife was drawn. And I didn't get hurt.

You have not seen my knives!!! Do I sharpen my knives, they ALL not sharp when they first arrive. I have to sharpen everyone of them. Mine is not exactly Cheap knives, at least 9Cr13MoV, D2 or N690 steel blade. My definition of sharp is cutting at least 10 layers of paper towel in a stack with slide motion of less than 1" slide travel. You touch it, it will cut. I am not those Forge In Fire making knives, but I do work on sharpening knives.

I agree, when I watch those videos how they disarm knives, how they do grappling with knives, to me, it's dangerous. It's more effective to just attack.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You have not seen my knives!!! Do I sharpen my knives, they ALL not sharp when they first arrive. I have to sharpen everyone of them. Mine is not exactly Cheap knives, at least 9Cr13MoV, D2 or N690 steel blade. My definition of sharp is cutting at least 10 layers of paper towel in a stack with slide motion of less than 1" slide travel. You touch it, it will cut. I am not those Forge In Fire making knives, but I do work on sharpening knives.

I agree, when I watch those videos how they disarm knives, how they do grappling with knives, to me, it's dangerous. It's more effective to just attack.

So some knives (including yours) are very sharp. Some knives are not.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Not a knife & i doubt if anyone runs around with this but... not long ago i saw on tv that a guy attacked someone with a samurai sword in the streets.
Imagine this weapon

Hi J-T-B,

You mentioned knives and now axes and serious and carrying around.
I have had swung and used in anger the following:
Axes, Machetes, Kitchen Knives (large and small) , screw drivers, ...
I have used a sword in a house to defend against an intruder, as well as other smaller blades and lots of improvised weapons all over.

So, could you provide a little feedback to your training experience, systems , teachers and/or experiences if not able to discuss the later.

 

[Alan0354]

So some knives (including yours) are very sharp. Some knives are not.

I don't know why some carry knives that are not sharp!!! I sharpen them, never use for opening envelops, cut boxes or anything. I have box cutter for that. The one in my pocket is always at the tip top condition.

 

[Jared Traveler]

I don't know why some carry knives that are not sharp!!! I sharpen them, never use for opening envelops, cut boxes or anything. I have box cutter for that. The one in my pocket is always at the tip top condition.

I have worked a super ton of cuttings. Recovered a lot of knives into evidence. One night in particular I worked 5 stabbings. From what I have seen the vast majority of knife attacks are done with knives that are not sharp.

Lots of homeless people carry dull kitchen steak knives. May people just grab a dull knife out of a drawer before attacking. Or go for that flimsy dull "truck stop" folder in their pocket.

A knife very well may be sharp, but most likely you will in my opinion be attacked by a dull knife.

 

[Alan0354]

I have worked a super ton of cuttings. Recovered a lot of knives into evidence. One night in particular I worked 5 stabbings. From what I have seen the vast majority of knife attacks are done with knives that are not sharp.

Lots of homeless people carry dull kitchen steak knives. May people just grab a dull knife out of a drawer before attacking. Or go for that flimsy dull "truck stop" folder in their pocket.

A knife very well may be sharp, but most likely you will in my opinion be attacked by a dull knife.

Good to hear.

Ha ha, I have no plan in attacking people. I hope I never even have to pull it out. If I get to the knife, that means I lost my cane already. If I pull the knife, it's desperate. It has to be as sharp as possible.

BTW, in your experience, what is the % of people that pull out knives know how to use the knife? Or they just swinging around? When I put a knife in my pocket, I make sure I at least slash and thrust my heavy bags with a rubber knife I bought. I found video on Filipino Kali knife and watch what they are doing. Turn out the moves are very similar to their escrima Kali stick fight. So it's not hard for me to follow at all as I practice the stick for about 3 months before already. I actually have a Thread about this here yesterday. I believe if I carry any weapon, I better know at least a little how to use it. I have been practicing stick fight with a cane for a year and half already just to carry a cane. Just carry without knowing how to use it might be more dangerous.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Good to hear.

Ha ha, I have no plan in attacking people. I hope I never even have to pull it out. If I get to the knife, that means I lost my cane already. If I pull the knife, it's desperate. It has to be as sharp as possible.

BTW, in your experience, what is the % of people that pull out knives know how to use the knife? Or they just swinging around? When I put a knife in my pocket, I make sure I at least slash and thrust my heavy bags with a rubber knife I bought. I found video on Filipino Kali knife and watch what they are doing. Turn out the moves are very similar to their escrima Kali stick fight. So it's not hard for me to follow at all as I practice the stick for about 3 months before already. I actually have a Thread about this here yesterday. I believe if I carry any weapon, I better know at least a little how to use it. I have been practicing stick fight with a cane for a year and half already just to carry a cane. Just carry without knowing how to use it might be more dangerous.

What I would fear most is deceptive, aggressive, shanking style attacks. I would imagine if someone knows how to use one and is going to attack you, most likely it would be a prison style attack.

 

[Alan0354]

What I would fear most is deceptive, aggressive, shanking style attacks. I would imagine if someone knows how to use one and is going to attack you, most likely it would be a prison style attack.

I don't know what you mean by prison style attack. Please explain. What is shanking style attack?

 

[Holmejr]

I don't know what you mean by prison style attack. Please explain. What is shanking style attack?

A shank in the prison system is typically a thin pointed weapon, often rounded and used for thrusting type of attacks. Thrust, pull, thrust, pull in rapid succession. Of course this can be accomplished with a traditional knife as well. Less or more easy based on blade design.

 

[Alan0354]

A shank in the prison system is typically a thin pointed weapon, often rounded and used for thrusting type of attacks. Thrust, pull, thrust, pull in rapid succession. Of course this can be accomplished with a traditional knife as well. Less or more easy based on blade design.

I see, thanks

Actually I saw those on tv, I was amazed how fast they can stick it over and over. I actually practice that like punching with one hand, just keep sticking/punching. I notice at the beginning, I could do it very slow because I don't get use to it. But after a few days, I can do it faster. Just practice. On the heavy bag, I practice low-high-low 3 thrust in a roll.

 

[isshinryuronin]

So some knives (including yours) are very sharp. Some knives are not.

It doesn't matter. Even a not very sharp knife can do damage - I think it would just hurt more. And I doubt the attacker would be willing to let you examine his blade, anyway. Defensive tactics wouldn't change, IMO. More important than the sharpness of the knife is the sharpness of its wielder and defender.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Shanking:

In my opinion people are more likely to slash defensively with a knife, but offensively people are more likely to thrust and puncture.