Wing Chun/Tsun + Brazillian Jiujitsu =

[Yoshiyahu]

No mystic wolf thats not accurate analogy of Wing Chun VS BJJ

Try this on for size!!!



Wing Chun:wuguns::biggun:BJJ

The BJJ Lover()

I am just Joking I love all you guys...lol...


Keep the Forum Posistive...

Wing Chun vs BJJ:jediduel::deadhorse:redeme:

 

[Steve]

Okay. I officially give up.

Edit: Actually. I'll take one more stab. A challenge to si-je, yoshi and anyone else who cares to give it a stab. I challenge you guys to post one thing that BJJ has in common with wing chun. Something legitimate. Rather than reflexively looking to argue. Rather than immediately trying to think of a way to refute or rebut mine or anyone else's last post, try instead to post something positive. In the spirit of the thread, try to think outside your current world view. If it helps, substitute Judo newaza instead of BJJ. I am sure that there is at least one thing.

 

[MJS]

Sigh...let me try again. The things that are mentioned, ie: biting, eye gouging, etc. are not limited to WC. Those are tools that I too, would use. I've repeatedly stated that any grappling art could be studied, not just BJJ, and I've also asked for thoughts on other grappling arts, yet never got an answer.

I've also stated that when I do a Kenpo takedown/tackle defense, it still looks like Kenpo. I stated that I train the defense against a grappler and make slight, subtle adjustments, but again, the defense still looks like Kenpo.

I'm simply saying to keep the WC defense. Don't change it to look like BJJ. Do what I do with mine. Get with a grappler, test your defense against their mount position, side control, takedowns, etc. If pure WC works, great. If not, then you need to go back to the drawing board and figure out why.

 

[MJS]

Someone please, help me out hear. Maybe I have been posting in this thread for all the wrong reasons. After looking at the you tube film, it was more of a contest then what I thought it was going to be. Not what I thought we were posting about. I thought it would be knock down drag out. There were rules in these matches that would favor one over the other. The boxer had one gloved hand, bad mistake, and in most other matches I did not see some of the principles I thought could change the outcome. We are talking rules here and that is where I made my mistake. We all spent over 140 posts hashing out who’s art was better and wasted numerous hours of typing. I would never put my self in a situation where my art and my reputation were on the line but yet I could not use all of my techniques, it is just crazy. Were these matches geared toward seeing which art was better, or just to see who could get the other person to submit. If I am wrong. Please, let me know, but I think I would have sunk my teeth into any part of his body I could, and there were many chances, and hung on for dear life. This is what bothers me about this whole cage thing, people look at this and determine that any form of punch, kick or strike is inferior. Have I read this whole theard wrong??

Guess you missed the point. I was showing how easy it was, despite the other guys striking, for the grappler to take him down. Of course, if you had a weapon, if you bit, hit the eyes and throat, etc. things may be different. However, while those are important tools, I feel that you should also have a plan B, in the event you are not in a position to bite or hit the eyes.

 

[seasoned]

Okay. I officially give up.

Edit: Actually. I'll take one more stab. A challenge to si-je, yoshi and anyone else who cares to give it a stab. I challenge you guys to post one thing that BJJ has in common with wing chun. Something legitimate. Rather than reflexively looking to argue. Rather than immediately trying to think of a way to refute or rebut mine or anyone else's last post, try instead to post something positive. In the spirit of the thread, try to think outside your current world view. If it helps, substitute Judo newaza instead of BJJ. I am sure that there is at least one thing.

Tenacity in posting.

 

[jarrod]

Guess you missed the point. I was showing how easy it was, despite the other guys striking, for the grappler to take him down. Of course, if you had a weapon, if you bit, hit the eyes and throat, etc. things may be different. However, while those are important tools, I feel that you should also have a plan B, in the event you are not in a position to bite or hit the eyes.

mjs, you should know by now that grapplers are always alone, unarmed, toothless, & have giant bulging eyeballs that are much more difficult to protect than the average human being's. also our groins are evidently enormous targets

*reverts to lurking*

jf

 

[mook jong man]

Okay. I officially give up.

Edit: Actually. I'll take one more stab. A challenge to si-je, yoshi and anyone else who cares to give it a stab. I challenge you guys to post one thing that BJJ has in common with wing chun. Something legitimate. Rather than reflexively looking to argue. Rather than immediately trying to think of a way to refute or rebut mine or anyone else's last post, try instead to post something positive. In the spirit of the thread, try to think outside your current world view. If it helps, substitute Judo newaza instead of BJJ. I am sure that there is at least one thing.

I'll have a crack , I didn't do BJJ so I can't speak for that but I did train with Pancrase guys and what I found was that I started to develop a sensitivity on the ground when in body to body contact mostly feeling with my chest and legs.

My arm sensitivity and hand speed from Chi Sau came in handy when I was mounted and trying to get an overhook or underhook so I could bridge and roll the guy .

It also helped when I had him mounted I could thwart his attempts to overhook or underhook my arm . So in closing I would say Wing Chun and groundfighting both develop a type of sensitivity that is suited for their specific purposes .

 

[dungeonworks]

Well, since I was the one that started all this, I will restate my intentions:

1. What parts of Wing Chun and Brazillian JJ would mesh well together?
2. Who's doing it, and how are your results thus far?

It was never meant to say which is better, although it drifted into that. It was never meant to show one up over the other, rather see what the addition of the BJJ ground game, which I feel is one of the very best tried and proven styles around with plenty of video proof from the past and modern competition. I love Wing Chun and simply was looking at a way I think could give me "value added" benefits from cross training without deviating too far from my Wing Chun. I already know I can go from Koei-Kan to sub. wrestling with no issues...but Koei-Kan is my base style. As I learn Wing Chun, I see some things in common between the two arts. Efficient movement, avoiding force with force, sticking...ect.

 

[Hand Sword]

Would it be a fair assessment for all sides arguing to agree to a simple idea-IMHO? Consider the fact that since the 1st UFC some real attention to the separate worlds of grappling and stand up has be given. Also, whether any truly want to admit to it or not, that event got all sides thinking and addressing (re-addressing?) the issue being debated. And since this is the case would it be fair to say that both sides got a jump and started a sort of evolutionary process? And since that process is still ongoing, would it also be fair to say that no definite answer could be given yet? Especially because the results are on the individual level, and therefore subjective?

I dunno, just a thought I had. Sorry to interrupt dungeonworks.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I feel any type of grappling can be adopted and modified to fit any art.

I find being in someones guard to be similar to push hands and silk reeling found in Tai chi chuan because that is what I used in a BJJ person guard.

I don't see anything wrong with a person wanting to merge BJJ and Wing chun if they feel they can merge it into something they feel will allow them to have a better access to a wider range of an arsenal.

In the end a person makes the art they train in their own. Meaning they adapt,modify,add or subtract according to their ideas,theories,body and experience. If we do not remain fluid in our ideas and in our minds we will become stiff and unable to bend or move freely in time of action.

 

[dungeonworks]

...I dunno, just a thought I had. Sorry to interrupt dungeonworks.

Don't be. Ain't like I never hijack or go off topic. :angel:

I like the whole enchilada of the debate, including where the conversation goes, even if adrift from the topic. I was just stating what I was looking for out of this thread is all.

 

[Mystic Wolf]

:deadhorse
Lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Personally I love Judo moves...it has a sorta of flare...as for BJJ having anything in common with WC...


Please lets discuss the principals of WC and compare them to BJJ principals...


But all arts interelate at some point in fair honesty so i am sure you can find one point that interelates with WC. Maybe not structure and formation of basics which makes it so you successfully use you wing chun as second nature. But maybe a technique or two can be compared...


Wow..why is this thread so much more lively than the other WC thread?

Okay. I officially give up.

Edit: Actually. I'll take one more stab. A challenge to si-je, yoshi and anyone else who cares to give it a stab. I challenge you guys to post one thing that BJJ has in common with wing chun. Something legitimate. Rather than reflexively looking to argue. Rather than immediately trying to think of a way to refute or rebut mine or anyone else's last post, try instead to post something positive. In the spirit of the thread, try to think outside your current world view. If it helps, substitute Judo newaza instead of BJJ. I am sure that there is at least one thing.

 

[Mystic Wolf]

When my students reach Si-Hing or Si-Je, I suggest that they go study another art if they haven't before WC.
The reason is so that they can do random attacks against the students they are instructing. I beleive in keeping the students in WC when training to defend there selves and having them being attacked in different ways,whether standing or on the ground, I keep it WC all the way. And by studing other arts keeps us fresh and knowledgable in WC.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I suggest meshing Japanese Juijitsu wing chun not bjj...but thats my opinion!

Well, since I was the one that started all this, I will restate my intentions:

1. What parts of Wing Chun and Brazillian JJ would mesh well together?
2. Who's doing it, and how are your results thus far?

It was never meant to say which is better, although it drifted into that. It was never meant to show one up over the other, rather see what the addition of the BJJ ground game, which I feel is one of the very best tried and proven styles around with plenty of video proof from the past and modern competition. I love Wing Chun and simply was looking at a way I think could give me "value added" benefits from cross training without deviating too far from my Wing Chun. I already know I can go from Koei-Kan to sub. wrestling with no issues...but Koei-Kan is my base style. As I learn Wing Chun, I see some things in common between the two arts. Efficient movement, avoiding force with force, sticking...ect.

 

[Mystic Wolf]

Question for the BJJ readers, please explain how you do sensitvity training?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

In BJJ or any grappling system. ie. wrestling, sambo, greco roman, etc. you are always trying to feel what your opponent is doing and counter their movement. Rolling with a partner you develop the skill to feel where they are going and then counter it. The very best bjj practitioners are also in general the most relaxed and smooth. (ie. no tension) This comes from years and years of rolling and being able to pick up where the other person is going via. feeling it through contact. Experience also plays a part in that you can see/feel what they are trying to do. Hope that helps.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I believe all martial arts tend to use the same strategy...but it is very good...thankyou for sharing...

In BJJ or any grappling system. ie. wrestling, sambo, greco roman, etc. you are always trying to feel what your opponent is doing and counter their movement. Rolling with a partner you develop the skill to feel where they are going and then counter it. The very best bjj practitioners are also in general the most relaxed and smooth. (ie. no tension) This comes from years and years of rolling and being able to pick up where the other person is going via. feeling it through contact. Experience also plays a part in that you can see/feel what they are trying to do. Hope that helps.

 

[D Dempsey]

In BJJ or any grappling system. ie. wrestling, sambo, greco roman, etc. you are always trying to feel what your opponent is doing and counter their movement. Rolling with a partner you develop the skill to feel where they are going and then counter it. The very best bjj practitioners are also in general the most relaxed and smooth. (ie. no tension) This comes from years and years of rolling and being able to pick up where the other person is going via. feeling it through contact. Experience also plays a part in that you can see/feel what they are trying to do. Hope that helps.

This is also why I have seen several blind grapplers competing and winning in higher level events like the Pan-Ams.

 

[Mystic Wolf]

Now we are getting somewhere.
Ok, in WC we also train to feel where are attacker is going and what his intensions are. We start as soon as they punch.

For example, if the attacker throws a staifgt jab, with our seeking hand, it sences the punch and goes to tan sau then stays with the jab as the attacker retracs the jab we ride up to him following up with chain punches.
The key is also to stay relaxed.

Also on the ground and if someone has us in the mount, the key is to stay relaxed and this is where chi sau comes in very handy. We start to deflect the punches which tells where to displace there energy to buck them off and roll them.