Wing Chun Boxing

[drop bear]

Right. Boxing is a set of rules with many different ring approaches.

VT doesn't function under the ruleset and none of those approaches resemble VT in specific strategy or tactics.

Nothing of VT resembles nothing of boxing in specific strategy or tactics?

 

[LFJ]

Nothing of VT resembles nothing of boxing in specific strategy or tactics?

Is this a trick question with the double negative or are you a native Spanish speaker?

They are quite different in specifics, and are most often contradictory methods.
You can find some superficial similarities, but the how and why are still often at odds.

 

[KPM]

Just to chum the waters a bit. Wasn't WSL a boxer prior to learning Wing Chun? Isn't it possible that he recognized a deficiency in the method and corrected it by modifying it based on knowledge and experience of WB? Who would be the wiser if he did? Especially if the modification occurred after Yip Man passed, there would be very few who could confirm or deny any alterations.

Oh yeah! I'm pretty convinced that WSL made changes and "updates" to his Wing Chun, and that this is why it has quite a few differences compared to everyone else's Wing Chun! And I think these "updates" were for the better! But try to convince the WSLVT groupies and they will blow a gasket! To suggest that WSL violated Chinese tradition and actually changed his Wing Chun.....scandalous!!!!

 

[KPM]

The thing is, if I want to start doing WB in a fight, I have to abandon the VT strategy and tactics, and vice versa.

---Let me fix this for you......"if I want to start doing WB in a fight, I have to abandon the WSLVT strategy and tactics"

So, in the end, the WC elements are indistinguishable from the boxing that already existed. It's just boxing.

---If you think that, then you obviously haven't matched many of Paul Rackemann's videos that I shared.

 

[LFJ]

Oh yeah! I'm pretty convinced that WSL made changes and "updates" to his Wing Chun, and that this is why it has quite a few differences compared to everyone else's Wing Chun! And I think these "updates" were for the better! But try to convince the WSLVT groupies and they will blow a gasket! To suggest that WSL violated Chinese tradition and actually changed his Wing Chun.....scandalous!!!!

How can you be convinced of anything, without prejudice, regarding a martial art you don't know the first thing about?

There is nothing undesirable about believing WSL made updates for the better.
Ever wonder why "WSLVT groupies" don't believe that, though?

Highly doubt any of us care about Chinese tradition. I, for one, couldn't care less.
We don't dress up and do "discipleship" ceremonies like some other groups.

 

[KPM]

The elements of the VT method when outside of close range is already present in the system, on the dummy for example. Nothing needs to be added or modified.

.

Really? Then you must have a very special dummy! One that can throw punches so you learn to gauge distance and stay just out of reach? One that can move and follow you across the floor as you bait it to over-reach or over-extend and leave an opening? One that will miss a strike and off-balance itself so you can practice stepping to the side and getting an angle for hard punches? One that will respond to baiting and luring tactics to make mistakes and set up openings? I'd like to see that dummy!

 

[LFJ]

The thing is, if I want to start doing WB in a fight, I have to abandon the VT strategy and tactics, and vice versa.

---Let me fix this for you......"if I want to start doing WB in a fight, I have to abandon the WSLVT strategy and tactics"

Same thing.

Really? Then you must have a very special dummy! One that can throw punches so you learn to gauge distance and stay just out of reach? One that can move and follow you across the floor as you bait it to over-reach or over-extend and leave an opening? One that will miss a strike and off-balance itself so you can practice stepping to the side and getting an angle for hard punches? One that will respond to baiting and luring tactics to make mistakes and set up openings? I'd like to see that dummy!

When clueless, best to ask, not make yourself look stupid.

 

[KPM]

Same thing.



When clueless, best to ask, not make yourself look stupid.

Once again, we see your typical pattern for participating in a discussion. WSLVT is the "gold standard" for all Ip Man Wing Chun and anyone doing anything different from WSLVT must be wrong and was learned improperly or incompletely. You throw a comment out like "the dummy teaches long range" without any elaboration or explanation and expect everyone to just take your word for it. And why did I not ask? Because another pattern you show is that when people do ask for elaboration you just ignore it, obfuscate and never really explain, or say that you aren't here to teach anyone Wing Chun. Please go find another thread to post on if this is how you want to carry on a discussion.

 

[LFJ]

Once again, we see your typical pattern for participating in a discussion. WSLVT is the "gold standard" for all Ip Man Wing Chun and anyone doing anything different from WSLVT must be wrong and was learned improperly or incompletely.

Not at all. I take each one case by case and independent of WSLVT.

If, for example, your YMVT as a standup striking style doesn't address the obviously common long range, and just assumes you'll teleport safely to your preferred range and not be outclassed there, something indeed "must be wrong and was learned improperly or incompletely".

That has nothing to do with WSLVT. It's an independent observation. A viable standup striking style would not be created like that by people who actually fight.

 

[KPM]

^^^^ Ok, then I'll ask again....please post video of a WSLVT guy conducting the fight with a "long range game" and doing something other than just charging in from long range as in all the videos I posted.

 

[LFJ]

^^^^ Ok, then I'll ask again....please post video of a WSLVT guy

And you say I make everything about WSLVT?
Seems like your obsession on every unrelated thread.

You've acknowledged your problems and are looking to WB to fix them. Good.
Proving WSLVT to be equally deficient as yours won't help you, besides to feel better.

Proving the opposite will only make you feel worse. So, just keep focusing on fixing your thing.

 

[KPM]

^^^^ Ok. Strike one. Then please explain to everyone how the dummy teaches WSLVT's "long range game."

 

[LFJ]

^^^^ Ok. Strike one. Then please explain to everyone how the dummy teaches WSLVT's "long range game."

Why? If you want to gap-fill with WB, do so. If you want to learn WSLVT instead, go learn it.

 

[KPM]

^^^^ Ok. Strike two. Then please summarize for us or explain how you see WSLVT working a "long range game", since you have no video. Please summarize it here to contribute to the current discussion rather than just linking to a prior thread.

 

[LFJ]

^^^^ Ok. Strike two. Then please summarize for us or explain how you see WSLVT working a "long range game", since you have no video. Please summarize it here to contribute to the current discussion rather than just linking to a prior thread.

Why? Too lazy or stubborn to click on a link to a post you responded to at the time with this:

"Thanks LFJ! Nice direct responses and clear illustrations. I understand much better where you are coming from now! This is how discussions should be done!"

Strike three! GTFO!

 

[KPM]

^^^^Ok. Strike three. You have made it very obvious now that you have no intentions of actually contributing to this thread in any kind of positive way. Let me repeat what I said before:

Once again, we see your typical pattern for participating in a discussion. WSLVT is the "gold standard" for all Ip Man Wing Chun and anyone doing anything different from WSLVT must be wrong and was learned improperly or incompletely. You throw a comment out like "the dummy teaches long range" without any elaboration or explanation and expect everyone to just take your word for it. And why did I not ask? Because another pattern you show is that when people do ask for elaboration you just ignore it, obfuscate and never really explain, or say that you aren't here to teach anyone Wing Chun. Please go find another thread to post on if this is how you want to carry on a discussion.

You've just proven me right. So, PLEASE GO ELSEWHERE.

 

[Juany118]

Just to chum the waters a bit. Wasn't WSL a boxer prior to learning Wing Chun? Isn't it possible that he recognized a deficiency in the method and corrected it by modifying it based on knowledge and experience of WB? Who would be the wiser if he did? Especially if the modification occurred after Yip Man passed, there would be very few who could confirm or deny any alterations.

Clearly there were changes but I don't see how those changes are related to the issue proposed here. The power generation is not related to modern WB, the footwork is substantially different as well. I think that rather than adding elements of WB to WC WSL more likely used the fighting experience he had from both to make his VT different.

 

[LFJ]

^^^^Ok. Strike three.

Already called it!

You have made it very obvious now that you have no intentions of actually contributing to this thread in any kind of positive way.

I've reposted the link three times in this thread.

You are being confrontational and expect me to hand-feed you?

Let me repeat what I said before:

Once again, we see your typical pattern for participating in a discussion. WSLVT is the "gold standard" for all Ip Man Wing Chun and anyone doing anything different from WSLVT must be wrong and was learned improperly or incompletely.

Not at all. I take each one case by case and independent of WSLVT.

If, for example, your YMVT as a standup striking style doesn't address the obviously common long range, and just assumes you'll teleport safely to your preferred range and not be outclassed there, something indeed "must be wrong and was learned improperly or incompletely".

That has nothing to do with WSLVT. It's an independent observation. A viable standup striking style would not be created like that by people who actually fight.

 

[LFJ]

Clearly there were changes but I don't see how those changes are related to the issue proposed here. The power generation is not related to modern WB, the footwork is substantially different as well. I think that rather than adding elements of WB to WC WSL more likely used the fighting experience he had from both to make his VT different.

Clearly? Different how?

You and KPM are both in the clouds talking about something you have no knowledge of whatsoever.

 

[drop bear]

Is this a trick question with the double negative or are you a native Spanish speaker?

They are quite different in specifics, and are most often contradictory methods.
You can find some superficial similarities, but the how and why are still often at odds.

It is a pity VT is not a system that can evolve though. So is the WT variant more flexable in concept. Possibly more suited to collaboration with other systems?