Wing Chun Boxing

[Flying Crane]

This is what it looks like when two people are really trying to hit each other.....and without gloves!

Well, it's what it looks like when these two particular people agree to have a competition in a ring, with a referee and a set of rules, and do their best to hit each other.

And while they are not wearing gloves, I see some wraps that give support and protection to the hands and wrists, so it is by no means bare-handed.

What I see in this video is a lot of caution and hesitation, which often(but not always) results in reduced commitment with their techniques. This is a result of the fact that this is a competition that they agreed to, with a set of rules and a referee, and they both are being cautious in their desire to outlast the opponent.

That is all fine for what it is.

But it is not as simple as "This is what it looks like when two people are really trying to hit each other.....and without gloves!"

 

[KPM]

^^^^^ Yeah right! Clearly you didn't even bother to watch the whole fight!

 

[drop bear]

Poor strategic choices by the kicker - everything was to areas the boxer is used to protecting. But a good demonstration that the close-in guarding a boxer uses tends to be effective, regardless of the direction of attack, if the attack is to a target the boxer is accustomed to protecting.

Yeah but you can eat a few kicks regardless if you know how to stop them or not. If when you close you are knocking fools out. Then you can just pressure in.

 

[drop bear]

Well, it's what it looks like when these two particular people agree to have a competition in a ring, with a referee and a set of rules, and do their best to hit each other.

And while they are not wearing gloves, I see some wraps that give support and protection to the hands and wrists, so it is by no means bare-handed.

What I see in this video is a lot of caution and hesitation, which often(but not always) results in reduced commitment with their techniques. This is a result of the fact that this is a competition that they agreed to, with a set of rules and a referee, and they both are being cautious in their desire to outlast the opponent.

That is all fine for what it is.

But it is not as simple as "This is what it looks like when two people are really trying to hit each other.....and without gloves!"

Honestly I think everyone should do a bit of really trying to hit each other. There is a lot of ideas that just dont work well withing that really trying to hit each other environment.

Now if you are too tough for rules. Do it no rules. Let me know how you get on. But generally 16 ounce glove will let you know what is the difference between what people think is a good idea. And what is actually a good idea.

You find a lot of caution and hesitation from guys who go bare knuckle. And are fighting a guy who can hit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah but you can eat a few kicks regardless if you know how to stop them or not. If when you close you are knocking fools out. Then you can just pressure in.

Agreed. I was just pointing out that the kicker didn't seem to use the one advantage he had. Though his kicks didn't seem to carry much power (based on the boxer's reaction), so I don't know how much of an advantage they were.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You find a lot of caution and hesitation from guys who go bare knuckle. And are fighting a guy who can hit.

And often even if they don't know if he can, or not.

 

[drop bear]

And often even if they don't know if he can, or not.

Yeah. I think this is something people miss. I was doing hard rounds today and was thinking about it. There is a level where you stop being able to see punches coming in very well and are heavily relying on counter footwork and basic covering.

It changes what works well and what doesn't.

 

[KPM]

Honestly I think everyone should do a bit of really trying to hit each other. There is a lot of ideas that just dont work well withing that really trying to hit each other environment.

Now if you are too tough for rules. Do it no rules. Let me know how you get on. But generally 16 ounce glove will let you know what is the difference between what people think is a good idea. And what is actually a good idea.

You find a lot of caution and hesitation from guys who go bare knuckle. And are fighting a guy who can hit.

I agree completely! If you are facing someone that you know is a worthy opponent and has the potential of knocking you out....of course you are going to be a bit cautious! And good grief, Sweeney worked his opponent like a heavy bag and put him on the canvas 3 times with body blows! I would certainly say he had "commitment" with his technique! And Sweeney got the TKO in the 3rd round, knowing it wasn't going to be a long fight. So he obviously wasn't worried about whether he could "outlast" his opponent!

Bottom line.....this fight DOES show what it looks like to actually try and hit your opponent....far better than the prior to videos that started this discussion. It IS that simple!

 

[Flying Crane]

I agree completely! If you are facing someone that you know is a worthy opponent and has the potential of knocking you out....of course you are going to be a bit cautious! And good grief, Sweeney worked his opponent like a heavy bag and put him on the canvas 3 times with body blows! I would certainly say he had "commitment" with his technique! And Sweeney got the TKO in the 3rd round, knowing it wasn't going to be a long fight. So he obviously wasn't worried about whether he could "outlast" his opponent!

Bottom line.....this fight DOES show what it looks like to actually try and hit your opponent....far better than the prior to videos that started this discussion. It IS that simple!

Ok. If you are satisfied with that, go with it.

 

[Flying Crane]

^^^^^ Yeah right! Clearly you didn't even bother to watch the whole fight!

You are right, i didn't watch the whole thing. I watched three or so minutes, before I lost interest.

Was there something amazing at the end that i missed?

 

[LFJ]

Poor strategic choices by the kicker - everything was to areas the boxer is used to protecting. But a good demonstration that the close-in guarding a boxer uses tends to be effective, regardless of the direction of attack, if the attack is to a target the boxer is accustomed to protecting.

Right.

Not a single leg kick was thrown that day...

Most likely because it was against the rules they had agreed upon because boxers can't handle leg kicks, which was my point exactly.

This was no answer to numerous videos of pro boxers getting their legs destroyed.

 

[drop bear]

Right.

Not a single leg kick was thrown that day...

Most likely because it was against the rules they had agreed upon because boxers can't handle leg kicks, which was my point exactly.

This was no answer to numerous videos of pro boxers getting their legs destroyed.

Boxers can't handle leg kicks eventually.

They can just eat them and continue on in the first few exchanges. What this means is you absolutely need a method to handle their hands untill your leg kick works.

Fine if you do muay thai and at least have some sort of hand skill to be able to hang in there.

Not so good if your hands are not up to scratch.

 

[drop bear]

By the way. Boxers dont care that much about defending the centerline. This is because they have hook punches. So if you attack the center and the other guy is not occupying it. You just punch air. And then generally get smashed.

Taking the center can be the wrong move.

Take a good hard look at that video. And you really will see why most of your stuff just doesn't work.

 

[drop bear]

I will suggest this again. At speed You almost can't see punches coming. If you do, you do not have time to move your hands and your body in this large manner.

You dont have time to address each punch with its own counter move.

Boxers often don't have time to move a glove three inches to protect their head. Please think about this for a minute guys.

So if someone decides to throw a hook from a distance with a tell this will work. But anyone who boxes knows not to throw a punch like that. The slow telegraphed rubbish you are drilling is nothing like a full speed shot.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Boxers dont care that much about defending the centerline.

To defend the centerline is to prevent your opponent from throwing jab and cross. If his opponent uses "rhino guard", this will never happen.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

deleted, dup.

 

[LFJ]

most of your stuff just doesn't work.

Interesting. None of that stuff is even mine.

 

[FighterTwister]

To defend the centerline is to prevent your opponent from throwing jab and cross. If his opponent uses "rhino guard", this will never happen.

Here you go guys a better video rendition of the above footage ...........

I 100 percent agree with your opinion as factual input.

Wandelie was just asking for that to happen it was so obvious to me any way.

Wanderlei was in a tense defensive guard position and opened up a little as he approached the center, rather than a more defensive centered side stance providing room to shuffle backward or move to the side and parry through or out of the centerline.

Its a common mistake in my opinion with fighters that just walk up and expect to KO someone, you see this clearly as Victor steps back and blasts forward perfect Wing Chun tactic in Victor's favor but poorly executed for Wanderlie.

Sometimes it works I agree where timing is on your side, but you are framing someone squarely just a plain target to blast through and thats what happened.

Going by Victors intent with arms up I would have thrown a fake straight lead jab up high crossing his line of sight from a side position and gone straight down to the legs for a take down since he has upper arm strength. and would have won that one.

Sadly he has done just that in other fights but here he got it all wrong.

Again all about reading the fight, but you can see the intents they both had.

Good fights or sparring employ good framework good use of footwork in and out the boxing range good kicks to gauge range and hurt the knees or wear doe the opponent.

So much to discuss its all about good sparring sessions though and then going back analyze them and correct the mistakes perfect what is necessary, rather than blindly just doing something with no content or expression of understanding.

That was a good video to illustrate the straight blast, perfect!

 

[KPM]

You are right, i didn't watch the whole thing. I watched three or so minutes, before I lost interest.

Was there something amazing at the end that i missed?

No. Nothing particularly amazing. But it was pretty obvious that you didn't watch enough of the clip to be able to pass judgement on it and reach the conclusions that you reached. Because your conclusions were just wrong. But you stated them so confidently!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Right.

Not a single leg kick was thrown that day...

Most likely because it was against the rules they had agreed upon because boxers can't handle leg kicks, which was my point exactly.

This was no answer to numerous videos of pro boxers getting their legs destroyed.

The kicks being thrown didn't look like they'd do much more than distract at the legs, but they might at least have done that.