why so many seem to dislike MMA
- Thread starter lonewolfofmibu
- Start date
I used to be one of the biggest mma fans I watched pride and ufc and countless other promotions from 97 to around 06 now I only watch when a fav fighter is on, then once tuf came it became a fad and now everyone who thinks he's a badass trains "mma". Tuf's approach of crap tv attracted the wrong crowd. Thugs, punks, and p.o.s humans who dont give a rats *** about martial arts. It makes me sick what this sport has become. Sadly my comments will upset some of the mma noobs, they will claim im bitter and whole load of b.s. But its true, funny how most that have been fans of mma for at least 10 years tend to agree with me. It's hard to explain to a noob how good mma was before tuf. Before the fans became so anoying it turned me off from the sport.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Exactly.
In fact, Bas Rutten has made it very clear he got in to martial arts because of Bruce Lee. And what he said about Bruce is spot on and very much praised Bruce Lee's abilities. Why would it be disrespectful to say someone would need half a year or a year of training to compete in a profession sport they've never competed in? I don't get it.
And he's absolutely right about aikido. Don't make an art that is designed for peaceful development, take all the hard techniques out, and then try to simultaneously argue that it is super lethal. You can't have it both ways. I've trained in Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu and it's not remotely the same as the watered down aikido that many folks are practicing. http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/544
Pointing out that one thing is not the other is not being disrespectful. Bas is not wrong, and he's got the experience to speak from experience.
Last edited:
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Yeah, but look, it's young male hierarchical combat, to steal a phrase from Marc Denny. Young men bump their gums. That's true in all professional sports where young men are paid to give vent to their testosterone, and it's why we pay them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
You where a clueless noob at one point too, we all where. Even the guys fighting in the UFC at the beginning where, so don't try and claim you weren't
Do you also quit liking a band if they make it big?
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
You where a clueless noob at one point too, we all where. Even the guys fighting in the UFC at the beginning where, so don't try and claim you weren't
Do you also quit liking a band if they make it big?
Lots of folks do stop liking bands when they make it big.........often for some pretty pretentious reasons.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
I actually quit liking several bands who made it big. Usually due to the fact that they changed their style to become big.
I like metal bands who use the beauty/beast setup in their vocals, preferably accompanied by violin, piano, organ, or other classical instruments among the heavy guitar / drum work. Every now and again, such a band throws out the 'beast' vocals and classical instruments, and turn into a vanilla metal band that gets accepted by enough of the populace to end up in the top 50 or whatever the local hit list is called.
Tristania, Theatre of Tragedy, Within Temptation, ...
I still like their earlier work though. Some bands stay true to themselves and make it big (Manowar, Rammstein), and those I stick with as well.
I like metal bands who use the beauty/beast setup in their vocals, preferably accompanied by violin, piano, organ, or other classical instruments among the heavy guitar / drum work. Every now and again, such a band throws out the 'beast' vocals and classical instruments, and turn into a vanilla metal band that gets accepted by enough of the populace to end up in the top 50 or whatever the local hit list is called.
Tristania, Theatre of Tragedy, Within Temptation, ...
I still like their earlier work though. Some bands stay true to themselves and make it big (Manowar, Rammstein), and those I stick with as well.
I was an avid boxing fan until 2000. Yup, I shelled out the 40 bucks to see Mike Tyson take about a minute (or was it two?) to wipe the floor with local homie Peter McNeely.
Trash talking? Posturing? Anyone remember Prince Naseem Hamed being introduced by the ringside announcer as "the royalty of boxing" and entering the ring on a flying carpet?
Bad sportsmanship? Holyfield-Tyson II, anyone?
Ultimately, what turned me off from boxing wasn't the preening, or the bad sportsmanship. What turned me off was the horrible judging. 1999-2000 there was a string of IMO very bad decisions, starting Holyfield-Lewis in Madison Square, and going at least through Morales-Barrera at Mandalay Bay. Maybe it continued...I dunno. I quit watching.
Its my impression that there is less of this crap in UFC, Pride, and the like because the fighters have more ways of getting overpowered by their opponents, plus they have the ability to tap out, ergo, fewer fights have to go to the cards for a decision.
Also, I think the organizers do a better job than Don King did at putting a series of good fights together. It was maddeningly annoying to shell out a pile of cash for PPV....and find that the most enjoyable fight of the card was Butterbean!
I really, really, really hate the drama queen crap that goes on with some of these shows, but that horse left the barn when Vince McMahon showed the world how many millions could be made off "combat posturing" that is not even real.
The lowest-common-denominator approach to broadcasting isn't anything new, nor going away anytime soon. As distateful as it is, that's not the fault of MMA itself.
Trash talking? Posturing? Anyone remember Prince Naseem Hamed being introduced by the ringside announcer as "the royalty of boxing" and entering the ring on a flying carpet?
Bad sportsmanship? Holyfield-Tyson II, anyone?
Ultimately, what turned me off from boxing wasn't the preening, or the bad sportsmanship. What turned me off was the horrible judging. 1999-2000 there was a string of IMO very bad decisions, starting Holyfield-Lewis in Madison Square, and going at least through Morales-Barrera at Mandalay Bay. Maybe it continued...I dunno. I quit watching.
Its my impression that there is less of this crap in UFC, Pride, and the like because the fighters have more ways of getting overpowered by their opponents, plus they have the ability to tap out, ergo, fewer fights have to go to the cards for a decision.
Also, I think the organizers do a better job than Don King did at putting a series of good fights together. It was maddeningly annoying to shell out a pile of cash for PPV....and find that the most enjoyable fight of the card was Butterbean!
I really, really, really hate the drama queen crap that goes on with some of these shows, but that horse left the barn when Vince McMahon showed the world how many millions could be made off "combat posturing" that is not even real.
The lowest-common-denominator approach to broadcasting isn't anything new, nor going away anytime soon. As distateful as it is, that's not the fault of MMA itself.
Gruenewald
Orange Belt
I disagree here (not with the actual statement, just the use of Ali as an example to support it), Mohammad Ali was (and still is) one of the greatest and kindest men to have ever lived. He has done so much good, and is respected around the world. While he was fighting, yes, he had a very cocky attitude and put up a show for publicity (primarily to get him a title shot with Sonny Liston), which is what initially made him so fun to watch. However nowadays he pretty much dedicates his life to pleasing his fans and just generally making the world a better place (which might be easier if he was left with any money).
You've misunderstood here, I was saying nothing against Ali whatsoever, my point is that he was the favourite, nothing else and Cooper was the underdog and we always cheer for the underdog because he's the underdog, nothing to do with personalities. I could have picked any combination of favourite and underdog, I chose that because the fighters are known on both sides of the Atlantic.
TheLegend731
White Belt
MMA is a martial art. Now the UFC, or other similar organizations just test the practitioners' mettle. I don't see it as barbaric as the second poster made it out to be.
People will be people, and they will want to see who can execute the art as practically and as best as possible. Thus a reasonable match is created, utilizing necessary restraints.
The same thing would apply to tma, only they can't survive in the ring as well. A tma ring would be a way to test the practicality of their arts. However, that is if they are practical in the first place. I'm not saying they aren't, but compared to mixing some very practical arts together is only logical to create a highly effective art of fighting.
I also am guilty of this, but I find many, not all tma practitioners, even close friends to be slightly arrogant and make their own arts out to be more than they really are. I think that's why mma is given such a bad name among tma users.
People will be people, and they will want to see who can execute the art as practically and as best as possible. Thus a reasonable match is created, utilizing necessary restraints.
The same thing would apply to tma, only they can't survive in the ring as well. A tma ring would be a way to test the practicality of their arts. However, that is if they are practical in the first place. I'm not saying they aren't, but compared to mixing some very practical arts together is only logical to create a highly effective art of fighting.
I also am guilty of this, but I find many, not all tma practitioners, even close friends to be slightly arrogant and make their own arts out to be more than they really are. I think that's why mma is given such a bad name among tma users.
Do i dislike MMA as a sport? No how can i dislike a sport. Nobody wrote a manual telling MMA fighters to be rude and stuck up did they? The sad problem is that you can go on youtube and see MMA coaches like Erik Paulson talk about how its not just the MMA fighters fault but its also his Coaches, Its the coaches job to instill a sense of respect because like a dojo the student has a sensei, sifu, master, guru or whatever you may call your teacher to look upto and respect. You should always respect your opponent as well. If your just a fighter and dont have no respect and dont have no background in some kinda legacy then thats all you are is a fighter and kinda a punk if you dont show respect
So you have guys like Matt Hughes who run around talking about oh i beat Royce Gracie but in a few years those guys cant fight anymore and there Careers are over. You go to other forums that are full of these type of guys and they put down every single traditional art you can think of. They insult every single name you can think of from Bruce Lee to Mas Oyama to Benny the Jet, to Gokor. to Rikson Gracie, even turning on there own.
And what it all comes down to is this. MMA is not even a martial art unto its self its made up of other martial arts that have been around for so long we dont even know how old they are do we? Lets see Muah Thai thats an ancient war art and it has roots in Krabi Krabong which is also an ancient art thats weapon based. How about Boxing thats so darn old that you can go all the way to ancient Rome to hear about boxing. How about Wrestling, Grappling? You can read about all that all the way to ancient Greece and Sparta.
When it comes down to why alot of people dont like MMA its cause of the disrespect thats shown to older arts and to people who arent in MMA.
But when i said this the other day one MMA guy came up to me and said look these other guys in MMA who bash all these arts dont respresent MMA. He said "i train in MMA but i live JKD"
So you have guys like Matt Hughes who run around talking about oh i beat Royce Gracie but in a few years those guys cant fight anymore and there Careers are over. You go to other forums that are full of these type of guys and they put down every single traditional art you can think of. They insult every single name you can think of from Bruce Lee to Mas Oyama to Benny the Jet, to Gokor. to Rikson Gracie, even turning on there own.
And what it all comes down to is this. MMA is not even a martial art unto its self its made up of other martial arts that have been around for so long we dont even know how old they are do we? Lets see Muah Thai thats an ancient war art and it has roots in Krabi Krabong which is also an ancient art thats weapon based. How about Boxing thats so darn old that you can go all the way to ancient Rome to hear about boxing. How about Wrestling, Grappling? You can read about all that all the way to ancient Greece and Sparta.
When it comes down to why alot of people dont like MMA its cause of the disrespect thats shown to older arts and to people who arent in MMA.
But when i said this the other day one MMA guy came up to me and said look these other guys in MMA who bash all these arts dont respresent MMA. He said "i train in MMA but i live JKD"
Last edited by a moderator:
TheArtofDave
Blue Belt
I as a matter of fact enjoy TUF. Now I enjoy it even more with GSP as a coach. Its finally great to get a guy who doesn't get rattled by Koscheck who is a big jack *** disrespecting the sport by taking jabs at GSP & also giving the example for the guys he trains to do the same.
But when GSP owns Josh, all will be right.
The UFC uses aggressive marketing to promote it's events. They use the sports commissions which in California, Nevada, etc. mainly are inspired by boxing. So MMA judging is still as relatively new as the sport itself. There needs to be a panel of former MMA fighters to act as judges. This would help the judging process & keep it impartial as the fighters themselves judge the arts on display. Also martial artists can be on the panel too so it can be diverse.
I enjoy MMA. I've stated several times. That you can watch techniques work against another person. It's essentially training with a live person. Now the UFC does pre-fight comments. They can be very respectful, or they can be trash talk. It depends on the fighters. Like it was mentioned before this is just to sell the fight. After Joe Rogan raises the hand of the winner its all about respect. Because nobody wants to piss off the boss & get cut.
But often the aggressive marketing leads to the misconception about what MMA is about. MMA is a full contact contest between 2 people of different martial art background. Their coaches come up with a game plan in which either works or doesn't.
As for violence.. well that depends on how well the fighter guards, & whether he is prone to cuts. Does he cut easy, or doesn't he. Every fight is different so that is why its interesting to watch.
It doesn't appeal to everybody & that's fine. But its no different than any other contact sport. It offers more ways to end. The fighter safety is top notch & these guys defend the sport to make sure that people know hey you train to be a professional fighter. Don't just beat the **** out of each other on the streets.
There are always exceptions but Dana White wants the sport to continue. It's not his fault he has to be an ******* to get things done. It's just how the business world works.
But when GSP owns Josh, all will be right.
The UFC uses aggressive marketing to promote it's events. They use the sports commissions which in California, Nevada, etc. mainly are inspired by boxing. So MMA judging is still as relatively new as the sport itself. There needs to be a panel of former MMA fighters to act as judges. This would help the judging process & keep it impartial as the fighters themselves judge the arts on display. Also martial artists can be on the panel too so it can be diverse.
I enjoy MMA. I've stated several times. That you can watch techniques work against another person. It's essentially training with a live person. Now the UFC does pre-fight comments. They can be very respectful, or they can be trash talk. It depends on the fighters. Like it was mentioned before this is just to sell the fight. After Joe Rogan raises the hand of the winner its all about respect. Because nobody wants to piss off the boss & get cut.
But often the aggressive marketing leads to the misconception about what MMA is about. MMA is a full contact contest between 2 people of different martial art background. Their coaches come up with a game plan in which either works or doesn't.
As for violence.. well that depends on how well the fighter guards, & whether he is prone to cuts. Does he cut easy, or doesn't he. Every fight is different so that is why its interesting to watch.
It doesn't appeal to everybody & that's fine. But its no different than any other contact sport. It offers more ways to end. The fighter safety is top notch & these guys defend the sport to make sure that people know hey you train to be a professional fighter. Don't just beat the **** out of each other on the streets.
There are always exceptions but Dana White wants the sport to continue. It's not his fault he has to be an ******* to get things done. It's just how the business world works.
ForeverStudent
Yellow Belt
I have nothing against MMA.
Why should i? I look at it as fighting sport, full contact. It has rules which allowes fighters to be more violent. And that's it.
Why should i? I look at it as fighting sport, full contact. It has rules which allowes fighters to be more violent. And that's it.
Well you seem to be putting a different view on the MMA in the Olympics thread, quite insutling you were on that!
More violent or just more realistic than point scoring 'competitions?
BloodMoney
Green Belt
- Boxing is more damaging than MMA. Waaay more TKO's by ref stoppage in MMA than in Boxing, theres no count, and not a lot of KO's. And what other sport do you see guys tap out when its getting too much. MMA is more honorable, respectful and safe than many people realize. Once again, do you see two badminton players hug each other or in some cases kiss each other after a match? I think not lol
- Guess what? Douchebags are in every sport. Yes theres plenty in MMA, but theres plenty of really nice guys too, I know quite a few MMA guys and there just guys. Its a mainstream sport now, its not just psycho "cagefighters". Are some a little more "self assured" than other sports people? Of course, their fighters,they cant go in there all uncertain and looking at their feet. It takes balls and self confidence to do what they do.
- They are martial artists. Calling them mindless brutes is incredibly ignorant. Pretty much all of the guys in UFC have a history of martial arts, A LOT of them have black belts in numerous arts, many of them having trained since a very young age. They are getting paid to do what they love, what they have done their whole life. I, like many others here, have dedicated my life to martial arts. So have these guys. Difference is they get multi million dollar contracts and I am poor as **** lol, but thats fair enough, they are professional athletes I am not. I have a lot of respect for any professional athlete given the pain and sweat they put in day after day. That goes for any sport. Its all gung fu, they all have awesome skill that took them years to build.
I think a lot of traditional martial artists are intimidated by MMA guys, and this is where a lot of aggression and negativity stems from. The reality is modern mixed martial artists can really give a traditional martial artist a run for his money, they cross train different disciplines, they train to fight other martial artists not just drunken louts in a bar. Ive seen guys get their egos damaged pretty bad by trying to match their flowery traditional system against an efficient MMA fighter, and I think this old vs new, traditional vs modern is actually quite healthy. Now days you could get accosted by a drunken idiot like any other era, except now heaps of those idiots do sports MMA and actually know how to fight somewhat. Our more trad systems need to adapt to this trend or be trampled by it.
- Guess what? Douchebags are in every sport. Yes theres plenty in MMA, but theres plenty of really nice guys too, I know quite a few MMA guys and there just guys. Its a mainstream sport now, its not just psycho "cagefighters". Are some a little more "self assured" than other sports people? Of course, their fighters,they cant go in there all uncertain and looking at their feet. It takes balls and self confidence to do what they do.
- They are martial artists. Calling them mindless brutes is incredibly ignorant. Pretty much all of the guys in UFC have a history of martial arts, A LOT of them have black belts in numerous arts, many of them having trained since a very young age. They are getting paid to do what they love, what they have done their whole life. I, like many others here, have dedicated my life to martial arts. So have these guys. Difference is they get multi million dollar contracts and I am poor as **** lol, but thats fair enough, they are professional athletes I am not. I have a lot of respect for any professional athlete given the pain and sweat they put in day after day. That goes for any sport. Its all gung fu, they all have awesome skill that took them years to build.
I think a lot of traditional martial artists are intimidated by MMA guys, and this is where a lot of aggression and negativity stems from. The reality is modern mixed martial artists can really give a traditional martial artist a run for his money, they cross train different disciplines, they train to fight other martial artists not just drunken louts in a bar. Ive seen guys get their egos damaged pretty bad by trying to match their flowery traditional system against an efficient MMA fighter, and I think this old vs new, traditional vs modern is actually quite healthy. Now days you could get accosted by a drunken idiot like any other era, except now heaps of those idiots do sports MMA and actually know how to fight somewhat. Our more trad systems need to adapt to this trend or be trampled by it.
Talon
Yellow Belt
I think alot of the "traditional" schools were pissed off that their cover had been blown. I other words, people could see what was working so it was harder to convince them that doing kata for 20 years would make you able to defend yourself and therefore these "masters" would have to up their game or admit the truth.
I think you are half right, kata works as self defence if the Bunkai is taught and taught correctly, many places just go through the motions. On seminars I've been to taken by Iain Abernethy he's often pointed out which parts of Bunkai are good for MMA or for grappling etc. Many people won't or can't understand that there's so much in kata if they chose to learn it properly and not just look at it as movements they have to do to grade. Their lost however.
