why so many seem to dislike MMA

[lonewolfofmibu]

I think many people are against MMA for a few reasons.
I think the first is that people are judgeing MMA soley by what some people in the UFC and other federations are doing, these people are highly paid athletes and it sad that the sport gets blamed for the mistakes they make. (no one blames basketball or football or baseball for steriod abuse or rape)
second I think that to many people are aren't forming there own opinions about MMA, they are going off of what their master's basis, many times it's hard to not listen to what your master has to say.
and lastly I think that many people don't like it because it is new and it seems that no martial art was liked when it was new
what does everyone else think

 

[MA-Caver]

I think many people are against MMA for a few reasons.
I think the first is that people are judgeing MMA soley by what some people in the UFC and other federations are doing, these people are highly paid athletes and it sad that the sport gets blamed for the mistakes they make. (no one blames basketball or football or baseball for steriod abuse or rape)
second I think that to many people are aren't forming there own opinions about MMA, they are going off of what their master's basis, many times it's hard to not listen to what your master has to say.
and lastly I think that many people don't like it because it is new and it seems that no martial art was liked when it was new
what does everyone else think

First off you're sadly mistaken (or misquoting yourself) that no-one blames base/foot/basket ball for steroid or rape problems among the athletes. Keeping up with the news should bring you up to speed.

Second, I've no problem with the ART itself. To me (and it's just my opinion) MMA is nothing more than a version of JKD. Mixed or Modern could fill in the first "M" of the acronym. It's the cage fighting that I find barbaric and gladiatorial in it's presentation and execution. Two men placed in a no-escape pen and fighting til one of them is senseless or counted out... after being pummeled to pieces. Boxing was a more civilized version of barbarity and IMO just as bad.
A Martial Art is for defense not offense. The hype that goes around MMA is almost like the *ahem* professional wrestling programs you get on TV, just not as ridiculous (yet).
I've only glanced at a few televised MMA fights or watched KO clips on YouTube ... were I a sifu/instructor/whatever... I too would be biased and upfront with my students that what is being shown on TV is NOT a Martial Arts competition.

just my two bits
:asian:

 

[Wey]

I agree with you for the most part. Theres a good chance that the majority of martial artists that dislike "MMA" feel that way because of their teacher or peers. Others may not like it because martial arts are supposed to be for self-defense, and having MMA practitioners doing it to get paid seems somewhat out of line. Within that, I think some people may be mad because MMA doesn't allow every technique imaginable and some people think/believe/know that if the professionals got into a street fight with a traditional martial artists, the MMA practitioner would get worked. A majority of hate comes from peoples' egos, with this being one of the prime examples.

Personally I don't have a problem with MMA. I've considered hopping in the ring, and I may still do it.

 

[Andrew Green]

Second, I've no problem with the ART itself. To me (and it's just my opinion) MMA is nothing more than a version of JKD. Mixed or Modern could fill in the first "M" of the acronym. It's the cage fighting that I find barbaric and gladiatorial in it's presentation and execution. Two men placed in a no-escape pen and fighting til one of them is senseless or counted out... after being pummeled to pieces. Boxing was a more civilized version of barbarity and IMO just as bad.

Boxing involves far more blows to the head, and a expectation that fighters continue for longer after sustaining them.

There is not counting out in MMA, if you are out, you are out. No 10-count, no standing 8, nothing. As soon as you are out the fight is over you are not expected to gather your sense and jump back in after a 8 or 10 count.

A Martial Art is for defense not offense. The hype that goes around MMA is almost like the *ahem* professional wrestling programs you get on TV, just not as ridiculous (yet).

Martial arts have been being used as sport for as long as we have recorded history, you could even make a case that organized sports evolved out of martial arts. The very first Olympic event was a foot race, in full battle armor.

I've only glanced at a few televised MMA fights or watched KO clips on YouTube ... were I a sifu/instructor/whatever... I too would be biased and upfront with my students that what is being shown on TV is NOT a Martial Arts competition.

just my two bits
:asian:

So what is? Stylistic dances in your PJ's?

 

[MJS]

I think many people are against MMA for a few reasons.
I think the first is that people are judgeing MMA soley by what some people in the UFC and other federations are doing, these people are highly paid athletes and it sad that the sport gets blamed for the mistakes they make. (no one blames basketball or football or baseball for steriod abuse or rape)
second I think that to many people are aren't forming there own opinions about MMA, they are going off of what their master's basis, many times it's hard to not listen to what your master has to say.
and lastly I think that many people don't like it because it is new and it seems that no martial art was liked when it was new
what does everyone else think

The following is just my opinion. I think that a very large portion of the non martial arts public is clueless as to anything MA related, in addition to what they claim to supposedly know, not being 100% accurate either. What people fail to understand is the martial arts has contact, and it has a very rough side to it as well. I've been training for 20+yrs, and I've seen many people cringe at the thought of anything violent. Violent can range from hitting someone harder than a tap, biting, groin shots, eye shots, etc. IMO, the arts were created for SD. Sadly today, thats not always the focus and people are afraid of contact any harder than a fly landing on them.

How does this relate to MMA? You have people who view MMA as 2 bloodthristy guys beating the living **** out of each other. This simply isn't the case, and if we were to compare early UFCs, to what we see today, we should see 2 different events. The fighter safety is much greater than what we used to see. I can recall many times where people complained that the fights were stopped too soon, and who knows, maybe they were, but compared to early fights, its very different.

As for people listening/not listening to what their "Master" tells them....I listen to what my teachers have to say, however, I form my own opinions on things. This isn't some cult. If one of my teachers doesn't care for MMA (which BTW, they all like it ) then thats fine...what I do, on my own, in my own house, is my business. Tradition or not, the day that one of my teachers tries to dictate my life, is the day that I no longer train at that school.

IMHO, I think that MMA is a good thing...to a point. Let me explain. Its good because I feel that it opened the eyes of alot of people. People who thought their art was complete, were taken by surprise, when they realized they were like a fish out of water once they got taken down. And yes, I know, people talk about eye gouges, etc, but while those are good tools, I feel that those are not or should not be the only answers. Why? Because people feel thats their plan b, but when b fails and they dont have a c, d, or e, then what?

I feel that its bad, and I suppose we could use the "1 bad apple spoiles the bunch" saying, in that many MMA people feel that what they do is the end all, be all of training. Again, not only is this not the case, but it makes ALL MMA people look bad, in addition to giving a sour taste to the traditional people.

 

[ap Oweyn]

I think that different forums have a different level of receptivity to MMA. Which is obviously a generalized statement. I'm talking overall trends here. On some sites, the overall trend may reflect less interest in MMA. On others, it might be more the norm. And on some, it seems to be the only thing that gets any respect at all.

None of which is especially enlightening.

I disagree that MMA is gladiatorial. Gladiatorial matches were often elaborate executions. But even those that were set up to be fair were to the death. I think that there's an inescapable difference between that and to the... unable or unwilling to continue. Even in the case of knockouts, the loser is usually back on his feet before the winner is announced. He was incapacitated. Not killed. That's a fairly significant distinction.

I think that a comparison to Greek pankration is more apt. People talk about the MMA format as though it were a new development. But it's actually a ridiculously old presentation of martial arts in the Western tradition. Crosstraining in boxing and wrestling. Competing for an audience. Being awarded with cash and trophies. Being honoured and celebrated with statues and other representations. It's all there in our history.

Then there's the idea that MMA is fueled purely by ego. This makes zero sense to me. What's more likely to keep your ego going? Competing in a public arena when you know, beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt, that you could very well lose this match? (Given that the guy across the ring from you is also a well-trained, well-conditioned combat athlete) Or wearing a black belt, being bowed to by wide-eyed adherents to your school, and not being put in harm's way on a regular basis?

And I ask that question as a member of Group B. Not Group A.

Then there's the argument that MMA isn't reality. Well... no. Training in general isn't reality. It's simply a question of where your abstraction comes in. Reality-based practitioners aren't actually gouging eyes or crushing windpipes. So they're abstracting. Just in a different way.

Besides, MMA often isn't looking to answer the larger, more abstract (and, likely, impossible to answer) question about reality. It's concerning itself with the far more concrete (and in some ways more useful) question, "what can I do with this opponent in front of me right now?)

I'm a big fan of the format. Even though I don't have a competitive bone in my body. To my mind, anyone can benefit from looking at the fundamental methodologies and thought process that underpin the MMA approach. Even if they're taking them back to another style with different priorities.

Baby. Bath water. Don't confuse the two.


Stuart

 

[Xue Sheng]

For the same reason so many dislike any other MA.

And for the record, I don't dislike MMA. Actually I am rather impressed by many MMA people's dedication to training

 

[J Ellis]

There have already been some excellent points made on this thread.

MMA is a sport. As such it is no better or worse than many other popular contact sports. It has some tremendous benefits for modern martial arts practitioners, and I think it has some potential downsides for public perception of the arts as well.

My biggest complaint about it is not inherent to the sport at all. What I dislike is the thug mentality that many of the athletes appear to have. This is not unique to MMA. You can see the same kind of attitudes in the NBA and NFL. I don't like it in those sports, and I don't like it in MMA.

I still enjoy watching these sports when opportunity permits, even if I don't always like the culture and attitudes that seem increasingly prevalent within them.

Joel

 

[Tez3]

There have already been some excellent points made on this thread.

MMA is a sport. As such it is no better or worse than many other popular contact sports. It has some tremendous benefits for modern martial arts practitioners, and I think it has some potential downsides for public perception of the arts as well.

My biggest complaint about it is not inherent to the sport at all. What I dislike is the thug mentality that many of the athletes appear to have. This is not unique to MMA. You can see the same kind of attitudes in the NBA and NFL. I don't like it in those sports, and I don't like it in MMA.

I still enjoy watching these sports when opportunity permits, even if I don't always like the culture and attitudes that seem increasingly prevalent within them.

Joel

Good post but I would take issue with just one part of it. You said you don't like the attitudes displayed in the NBA and NFL, naming specific organisations but then mention MMA which isn't an organisaton. My point is that outside specific organisations the grass roots attitudes in all of these sports is different as it is in MMA. the attitudes displayed which I also dislike come from the big for-profit organisations whose interests lie in hypeing up their 'staff' to increase profits. In MMA the main culprit is the UFC, outside this and a couple of other big companies you will find the attitudes very different and the atmosphere and behaviour of both fans and fighters much more like traditional martial arts.
The culture and attitudes in the 'normal' MMA are different from that displayed in the UFC, one of the reasons I get annoyed when people judge MMA purely from what they see on TUF and UFC.
The UFC promotes it's own brand of MMA, it isn't the whole or even typical of the MMA that people train and fight everyday around the rest of the world.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Unfrotunately Tez3 the face of professional MMA is the UFC as they are the super organization of mixed martial arts at this point. So all organizatioins rightly or wrongly are judged by their standards.

Having said that I really enjoy watching mma/ufc events though I do not pay for any of them. (no I just wait a bit and watch for free ) I can respect the athletes hard work and dedication and disregard the hyping of fights, etc. Athletes behave on a whole pretty well though there are exceptions in every sport! It really is no different in the UFC or any MMA event for that matter. Enjoy their performance but do not make them a role model for personal behavior!

 

[Andrew Green]

This has been circulating a little, as a contrast to the UFC pre-fight / post-fight stuff:

Pre fight
[yt]DiZzNXpQsjo[/yt]

Post Fight

[yt]XlwIh-Txgag[/yt]

The smack talk is not always there, and I imagine most of the time its just for show. They need to put together promo videos that sell the fight, having guys talk trash is a pretty easy and time tested way of selling a fight.

 

[zDom]

The thug culture is what I object to as well. I don't like thuggery in the UFC, the NFL, the NBA or anywhere else I see it.

I don't like seeing those with the thug mentality trained in effective technique. It makes it more likely that I or a fellow student will run into a self-defense situation where we face a trained fighter using smart techniques. I much preferred them having a false confidence in windmill and John Wayne haymakers punching.

It kinda bugs me when some guy in a TapouT shirt and sock cap holds forth on how the BJJ armbar he learned from a guy who got his instructor certification during a weekend seminar four months ago is better than the very same armbar I learned and have been training since a year before UFC 1 aired simply because hapkido is a TMA and he once saw a hapkido guy get pawned in the cage.

But then I do watch UFC and local MMA competitions semi-regularly. I appreciate someone like GSP who, whenever I've seen him, displays admirable sportsmanship in addition to some solid, well-rounded fighting skills.

And I respect anyone who trains hard — be it a football player, an MMA enthusiast, a Kenpo stylist or an Olympic ice skater.

Respect begets respect; disrespect begets disrespect.

 

[Tez3]

The thug culture is what I object to as well. I don't like thuggery in the UFC, the NFL, the NBA or anywhere else I see it.

I don't like seeing those with the thug mentality trained in effective technique. It makes it more likely that I or a fellow student will run into a self-defense situation where we face a trained fighter using smart techniques. I much preferred them having a false confidence in windmill and John Wayne haymakers punching.

It kinda bugs me when some guy in a TapouT shirt and sock cap holds forth on how the BJJ armbar he learned from a guy who got his instructor certification during a weekend seminar four months ago is better than the very same armbar I learned and have been training since a year before UFC 1 aired simply because hapkido is a TMA and he once saw a hapkido guy get pawned in the cage.

But then I do watch UFC and local MMA competitions semi-regularly. I appreciate someone like GSP who, whenever I've seen him, displays admirable sportsmanship in addition to some solid, well-rounded fighting skills.

And I respect anyone who trains hard — be it a football player, an MMA enthusiast, a Kenpo stylist or an Olympic ice skater.

Respect begets respect; disrespect begets disrespect.

Ah GSP... be still my beating heart lol!

He was over here the other week cornering Tom Watson at the BAMMA fight night, a very nice man as well as being sex on legs! Sorry, will compose myself now.

The vast majority of MMA fighters I know are in his mould not the thug camp thankfully, sadly though I suppose as has been said the UFC is the face of American MMA and is exporting it's brand worldwide a la MacDs, Burger King etc etc. Though here it's ticket sales don't yet match home grown events, thats mostly because people want to support fighters they know, that will change as more British fighters come under UFC contracts but hopefully too you will see some more old fashioned martial arts behaviour from them, at least I'm hoping its going to work that way. As the UFC takes on more non Americans it may find itself toning down the smack talk for the European market, more so perhaps for the Australians, Aussies will laugh buckets at people trying to smack talk in the land of the legendary sledgers!

 

[dancingalone]

As the UFC takes on more non Americans it may find itself toning down the smack talk for the European market, more so perhaps for the Australians, Aussies will laugh buckets at people trying to smack talk in the land of the legendary sledgers!

No offense intended, Tez, but the Brits in the UFC are mouthy at times too. I won't name any names, since you likely know who they are, but let's not assume this is strictly a UFC deal. At the very least these guys are pandering to their perceived audience even if their remarks don't reflect their true personalities.

 

[Tez3]

I'm not saying the Brits can't be gobby, I'm saying the UFC may want to tone it down here because it doesn't sell tickets. When a Brit fighter is mouthing off here the chorus of disapproval from his peers is enormous, people actually say they hope he gets beaten and certainly won't pay to see him. Being seen as big headed and cocky is still frowned on here and smack talking is the fastest to lose fans. We also love the under dog, the quiet man. As shown by the Dunkirk memorials here at the moment we will celebrate a noble defeat always over a win by a loud mouth.
We have always loved the Henry Coopers and not the Mohamed Alis of the world.

 

[dancingalone]

I am curious if the British UFC fighters are any less popular in Britain as a result of their sometimes less than sterling behavior in the UFC? Or is it more like 'what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas'?

 

[Tez3]

I am curious if the British UFC fighters are any less popular in Britain as a result of their sometimes less than sterling behavior in the UFC? Or is it more like 'what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas'?

Definitely less popular. There's now a good many who have gone off two fighters in particular. Though one, I have to say was never popular to start with! He's known for being arrogant and his support is/was purely for a Brit in the UFC not him personally. I've had a run in with him pre TUF days and dislike him a lot.
It may be a national trait perhaps, look at our tennis players for example we much prefer nice guys even if they don't win! We love 'triers' and we expect them to be humble, we can't cope very well if someone wins and says it's because he's the best lol! We expect, if he wins to say, well it was the luck of the draw/the best man on the night etc. We rarely mind if people lose I suppose as long as they go down fighting! Whether thats a good thing or not I've no idea!

 

[knuckleheader]

Let me be on record as "I like MMA!"....:shock:

 

[Kwan Jang]

IMO, the sport of MMA is the closest training method that a healthy, young martial artist can safely train towards a one-on-one encounter. I think that for advanced practitioners whose bodies can handle it, this is a great tool. I also practice the FMA's as part of my training for weapons work and still utilize multiple opponent drills from my TMA (mainly Hapkido) background. There is much that is gained in the training that would be hard to gain by other methods, but it is not for everyone. There is also a lot that is sport specific that would not translate to real self defense.

On a technical standpoint, it should be noted that the VAST majority of the elite fighters have a VERY solid background in at least one discipline (usually at an exceptional level) and then developed solid skills in the other aspects outside their base. Whether that base is Judo, Sambo, BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Karate, Boxing, ect., most elite fighters have many years or decades of training on that base in addition to their cross training. It's usually not so much the high level fighters, but the fans who don't train that disrespect many base systems (those of the "other guys").

Finally, regarding the attitudes and conduct of some of the fighters. I feel the need to mention that the early UFC's used "pro wrasslin" (I use this term for WWE, ect. to distinguish it from the real sport) as a marketing model. Even today, there is a strong influence that is apparent. This is what sells tickets and helps create bigger paydays. Frank Shamrock has taught a grappling/MMA class on an average of 2x/week for the majority of the last decade. I get in there every time I go back home to train, which is usually 2-3 weeks a year. Frank "plays" the role of the "heel" in public to build the hype and the "public" Frank is not the one I know from training. I may not be a fan of this, but OTOH since this is how feeds his family, I won't begrudge him. My guess is that he's far from the only one who plays a role out there.

There ARE some jerks and hoods in the sport even on the higher levels, as I discovered sitting in the front row at the Strikeforce event in Nashville. But I have actually seen at least as much of this both in sport karate and even in the TMA's that don't compete, so this is more of a problem of human nature than of a specific sport.

 

[Kyosanim]

IMO, the sport of MMA is the closest training method that a healthy, young martial artist can safely train towards a one-on-one encounter. I think that for advanced practitioners whose bodies can handle it, this is a great tool. I also practice the FMA's as part of my training for weapons work and still utilize multiple opponent drills from my TMA (mainly Hapkido) background. There is much that is gained in the training that would be hard to gain by other methods, but it is not for everyone. There is also a lot that is sport specific that would not translate to real self defense.

On a technical standpoint, it should be noted that the VAST majority of the elite fighters have a VERY solid background in at least one discipline (usually at an exceptional level) and then developed solid skills in the other aspects outside their base. Whether that base is Judo, Sambo, BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Karate, Boxing, ect., most elite fighters have many years or decades of training on that base in addition to their cross training. It's usually not so much the high level fighters, but the fans who don't train that disrespect many base systems (those of the "other guys").

Finally, regarding the attitudes and conduct of some of the fighters. I feel the need to mention that the early UFC's used "pro wrasslin" (I use this term for WWE, ect. to distinguish it from the real sport) as a marketing model. Even today, there is a strong influence that is apparent. This is what sells tickets and helps create bigger paydays. Frank Shamrock has taught a grappling/MMA class on an average of 2x/week for the majority of the last decade. I get in there every time I go back home to train, which is usually 2-3 weeks a year. Frank "plays" the role of the "heel" in public to build the hype and the "public" Frank is not the one I know from training. I may not be a fan of this, but OTOH since this is how feeds his family, I won't begrudge him. My guess is that he's far from the only one who plays a role out there.

There ARE some jerks and hoods in the sport even on the higher levels, as I discovered sitting in the front row at the Strikeforce event in Nashville. But I have actually seen at least as much of this both in sport karate and even in the TMA's that don't compete, so this is more of a problem of human nature than of a specific sport.

The reason people have a problem with it is because at first glance it seems very violent. I really don't think it's any different than boxing to be honest.