Why does karate have better kicks than hands?

[ShotoNoob]

You would still see the evidence of it. Because it is either going to work or it isn't.

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@drop bear, Drop-Scary Bear....
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Dig a little deeper. How do you know, from just observing the outward physical form, whether it's athletically (physical moves re-actively practiced over & over) performed OR is it mentally disciplined (the conscious mind deliberately exercising exacting control of the whole body at all times)?
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Now dig a lot deeper.....

 

[chinto]

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@drop bear, Drop-Scary Bear....
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Dig a little deeper. How do you know, from just observing the outward physical form, whether it's athletically (physical moves re-actively practiced over & over) performed OR is it mentally disciplined (the conscious mind deliberately exercising exacting control of the whole body at all times)?
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Now dig a lot deeper.....

Okinawan Karate does not have better kicks then hands. it has good kicks and good hands. to respond to some one who asked about face, and head punching, its there but the emphisis in most styles is on the body because if you brake ribs or damage the liver they can NOT continue to breath well or fight. you Can fight with most of the bones in your face broken.

 

[chinto]

Lack of face punching in some styles.

not in Okinawan styles. also the emphasis is on the body as that is the quicker way to stop that person being able to fight. if he can not breath he can not fight! you can fight still if your determined, with most of your facial bones broken with little reduction in your ability to fight comparatively.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I note Tony D. mentions below how I wrote "" was a "scare?"

I said that you used scare quotes when referring to Tez as a "karateka." The term scare quotes has nothing to do with being scary. It's when you put quotation marks around something, not because you are actually quoting anybody, but because you are indicating that you don't consider the words inside the quotes to be accurate. Used in this context, when you refer to all the "karateka" like Tez, it conveys roughly the same meaning as all the so-called karateka like Tez.

If this wasn't what you intended to communicate, then it might be a good idea to clarify.

 

[drop bear]

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@drop bear, Drop-Scary Bear....
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Dig a little deeper. How do you know, from just observing the outward physical form, whether it's athletically (physical moves re-actively practiced over & over) performed OR is it mentally disciplined (the conscious mind deliberately exercising exacting control of the whole body at all times)?
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Now dig a lot deeper.....

You are going to punch hard and on target without getting punched. Then whatever you are doing works. Whether it is mental or physical. See it repeated enough and you will find a trend.

I mean what am i missing here?

 

[drop bear]

not in Okinawan styles. also the emphasis is on the body as that is the quicker way to stop that person being able to fight. if he can not breath he can not fight! you can fight still if your determined, with most of your facial bones broken with little reduction in your ability to fight comparatively.

You Think? You have been punched in the head hard?

There is validity to body shots. But they are not a super weapon.

 

[Touch Of Death]

You Think? You have been punched in the head hard?

There is validity to body shots. But they are not a super weapon.

You will notice that center mass is a main target for gun owners, as well.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You will notice that center mass is a main target for gun owners, as well.

It seems rather pointless to compare the impact of a fist with that of a bullet...


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

 

[Touch Of Death]

It seems rather pointless to compare the impact of a fist with that of a bullet...


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

I was actually talking about target availability, but I will remember not to compare the impact. Thank you.

 

[Tez3]

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@drop bear, Drop-Scary Bear....
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Dig a little deeper. How do you know, from just observing the outward physical form, whether it's athletically (physical moves re-actively practiced over & over) performed OR is it mentally disciplined (the conscious mind deliberately exercising exacting control of the whole body at all times)?
|
Now dig a lot deeper.....

I assume you have decided to ignore me, whether it's because I dared to ask a question, dared to ask for proof or perhaps because you found out I'm female I don't know no do I care.
I'm sure you believe your way is the best and only way and that you are keeping some ancient flame alive with your belief of mental karate however while I will gladly admit I know far less than I would like I do believe that my style of doing karate is practical and effective, I don't ask for it to be more than that. I don't want a spiritual belief system from my martial arts, I don't want training in mental gymnastics, I want my karate to be something I can use to defend myself.
We also train MMA fighters and certainly outside the US there is a lot of karate in MMA as there is in kick boxing. You aren't unique in putting karate into MMA at all.
The above quote is a rather odd thing to contemplate while someone is attacking you, I wouldn't recommend standing there thinking deeply while they throw a punch at you. Unless of course you are about to tell us you can do no touch KOs?
I do realise you will now assume I'm some sort of heretic but hey I'm at least a heretic who can defend themselves and others if attacked, I know from experience I can and that will do for me.
Oh and 're-actively' ?

 

[Zero]

You Think? You have been punched in the head hard?

There is validity to body shots. But they are not a super weapon.

Chinto has a valid point, if you are used to the hits, and noting it may play havoc with your vision, you can go on with a broken nose, broken cheek bones etc. Sure you get a good rocking to the jaw from most angles or to the temple you'll likely go down but otherwise your face can be a mess and you can go on.

More to the point, aside from the facial areas, a lot of the head is an incredibly hard/dense target to hit, parts of the skull are far harder and more resilient than your knuckles, you can come off worse when striking these and these areas, ie forehead, can soak up a lot of damage.

This is appreciated even by top boxers with gloves on. The great smoking Jo Fraser himself (and also possessing one hell of a hard noggin that caused the likes of Ali considerable trouble) said he preferred to work on and break the body down and it was his view that the body, however well conditioned, was a much softer and vulnerable target. He said something along the lines of the following in some interview: "hurt the body and watch what happens..."

 

[Touch Of Death]

You Think? You have been punched in the head hard?

There is validity to body shots. But they are not a super weapon.

What are you saying? Head Hunting isn't a good self defense strategy.

 

[Cirdan]

About striking the head and the skull being more dense than your knuckles, I often prefer striking with open hands. I practice my open hand strikes far more than anyone else I know to the point people are starting to call me open-hands Rune. Fists are great of course but a shotai or tettsui are often better against really hard targets in my opinion.

 

[Zero]

About striking the head and the skull being more dense than your knuckles, I often prefer striking with open hands. I practice my open hand strikes far more than anyone else I know to the point people are starting to call me open-hands Rune. Fists are great of course but a shotai or tettsui are often better against really hard targets in my opinion.

Agreed, and even if not "better", in my view the risk of damage to self is far less.

 

[Zero]

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I've been working with a Master at another branch who is interested in applying traditional karate for MMA. He's been pretty much on board with my input. Focus mitts & pads, >> not included. The majority who want to use these training aids--that's up to them. I put on a demonstration breaking boards within what is typically a non-fighting an "air punching" exercise. I challenged the class to do the same, Not a single bag / pad puncher could match what I did....including the instructor. I got that way by doing the traditional karate curriculum-no sport equipment assist and yes, a lot of "air punching." It's the foundation that gives rise to karate power, not the test....

Just out of interest, to build up to your level at the board breaking, in addition to your air punching drills have you also been practicing on hitting the boards and breaking and therefore conditioning had been occurring? I take it you didn't just go up in front of the class and break boards solely on your air punching but that you have trained, even on your own, at breaking board with strikes?

You mention in addition to air punching you have been focusing on the "traditional karate curriculum, no sport equipment". If that is anything like what we do in goju ryu - particularly the more traditional focused members - then that will condition your bare hands far better for breaking than most sport styles or other training. That involves makiwara work, either with rope padding or not on the board, sand bag or metal filling work on the knuckles (and palms and finger tips), hours of bare knuckle push ups etc. I am not surprised the "sports" guys in your club didn't want to or could not match you in hitting the boards. Seems obvious?

I would agree that pad work in itself is generally for a different thing and is not designed for power work. But that is why the God of Boxing invented the heavy heavy bag. I have nothing against breaking and breaking exhibitions in itself but I do think they are a distraction if you are focusing on fighting (particularly only having so much time in the day). I also think that the heavy bag is a far better tool for working on strike power and strength in the context of training for a fight with a moving and resisting opponent, rather than board breaking. In addition, the heavy bag has so much more in common with the human body you will be punching than compared to say a brick or boards...

Again, it's impressive for what it is but it's the old cliché (but which is also very true) of "boards don't hit back". The set up time and position for impressive breaks, and even simple breaks on thick non-commercial boards, has simply no reflection on or place in a fight situation.

 

[drop bear]

What are you saying? Head Hunting isn't a good self defense strategy.

It is not really a comparison of damage. Because we would be comparing a shot that knocks you out to a shot that debilitates you through broken ribs. What we have to look at is the likelihood that you will achieve one or the other.

 

[drop bear]

Agreed, and even if not "better", in my view the risk of damage to self is far less.

Most people i know have broken their hands with body shots. I wonder if there are stats on that?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Most people i know have broken their hands with body shots. I wonder if there are stats on that?

Your friends should learn how to use their elbows.

 

[drop bear]

Your friends should learn how to use their elbows.

Nobody only throws elbows. You would put yourself at too much of a disadvantage.

 

[Zero]

Most people i know have broken their hands with body shots. I wonder if there are stats on that?

I would certainly like to see those stats!! "Most people you know have broken their hands with body shots"? Surely not most, I take it you mean you know a few or a couple that have broken hands when doing this? What style of fighter are they?
I am not proud about it but I have broken a guy's rib in competition and not damaged my hand. I also had my own rib pushed out of my chest when the ligament was stretched when I took a shocker of a blow to the side of the torso. It was bad for me but I knew the guy I was fighting, he was a friend and trainer, and his hand was not hurt.

The ribs are strong but they are far more vulnerable and do not have the same structure as the head bones, they simply do not have the cohesiveness or support of the head bones.