What is your highest tested belt rank?

[MJS]

What about this?

I train in SKK and my school is connected to GM Brassards. He went to test for his 7th degree (i think) and was awarded his 10th degree because of his contributions. Would it have been disrespectful for him in this situation to refuse the higher rand and the title?

B

Personally, I'm not a big fan of skipping rank. If someone was a 4th and was awarded a 9th or 10th, I'd lean more towards that being wrong. I really don't know much about the gentleman you mention, how long he's been in the arts, or the contributions he's made. If the people that awarded him this rank, honestly feel that he's deserving of it, then so be it. IMHO, I'm at a point, in which rank isn't placed as high on the pedestal as training. Its been 8yrs. since I last tested. If I was in a rush, I'd have found some way to get that 4th and possibly 5th.

Mike

 

[KempoGuy06]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of skipping rank. If someone was a 4th and was awarded a 9th or 10th, I'd lean more towards that being wrong. I really don't know much about the gentleman you mention, how long he's been in the arts, or the contributions he's made. If the people that awarded him this rank, honestly feel that he's deserving of it, then so be it. IMHO, I'm at a point, in which rank isn't placed as high on the pedestal as training. Its been 8yrs. since I last tested. If I was in a rush, I'd have found some way to get that 4th and possibly 5th.

Mike

He has been in it a while here is his website http://www.jamesbrassard.com/. I was just curious on someones opinion on the subject. I agree with you on rank vs training. I am more more worried about the quality of training i recieve as to the quantity of belts i have.

B

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Long have I seen the arguments concerning rank on numerous discussion sites. Long have I seen the arguments concerning earned vs awarded vs cross ranking.

Well, my opinion is simple. If you didn't sweat for it, it's not real.
Someone saying 'You've been a 4th for 2 years, good job, here's your 5th' seems cheap to me. Sending in your video tape some good-ole-boys sokeboard, moreso. I mean, has anyone ever sent their tape and cash in and NOT! gotten their promotion? Is someone with who has only sweat and bleed and felt the pain to 3 1st degree belts really suddenly qualified to buy themselves a grandmastership by mail order?

So, I have to ask this highly charged question:
What is your current rank, and when was the last test you stepped on a floor and showed your metal to a senior or panel of peers?

Random Side note: What does sweating on ONE DAY at a test have to do with anything? Training should involve the "blood sweat and tears" over a period of time so one day and a test is really miniscule on the grand scale. If an instructor has seen you sweat and bleed in front of him/her for a certain period time (whatever their standards are) and they feel you are ready for a belt (whatever their standards are) what does a formal test have to say that the last few months and/or years working with you didn't already say? Nothing in my opinion, it's just a formality.

With that said I've tested for every belt I've ever earned. And here are some of my current stats..

3rd Dan TKD (1998)
3rd Level Black Sash Kung Fu (1998)
2nd Dan Ju Jitsu (2003)
3rd Dan American Kenpo (2003 and 2004 for different instructors)

 

[Tames D]

Dave, I got my 1st in 1970 so as you can see I have just been shooting up through the ranks.................................. . I figure at the rate I'm going I'll see my 7th about the time I turn 70.

So your one of those typical rank chasers... LOL

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

He has been in it a while here is his website http://www.jamesbrassard.com/. I was just curious on someones opinion on the subject. I agree with you on rank vs training. I am more more worried about the quality of training i recieve as to the quantity of belts i have.

B

Personally not a fan of skipping belts at all. If you are really that good and have been doing it that long then you should know that A) your rank really doesn't mean that much and B) you'll get to the highest rank over time anyway if you are that good and contributing that much. So my question is what's the motivation and the rush for skipping degrees? It doesn't make you any better at DOING or TEACHING anything. It just makes you LOOK better to those that value the amount of tips on someone's belt. There really is no valid reason I've heard for skipping ranks as oppossed to waiting it out except when founding one's own system. In the last case it's a toss up whether or not the person wants to start their new system at the highest level or if they want their rank to progress as their system progresses like Ed Parker and a few others did.

 

[The Master]

I'm looking at this from an academic perspective. One doesn't test for an associate degreeand walk out with a masters. By that sae token, one doesn't sign up for a class, do nothing, and yet still pass.

The definition of testing, has some room for variance.
The test can be 20 minutes, a couple of hours, several days, or several years.
The key point here is that you earned it.

It wasn't just handed to you for showing up to some seminars, buying the "big guy" some toys, or sending off a video tape and a check to some fat-boys board. It wasn't given because you had the big event, or let the GM sleep with your wife/daughter, or married his daughter, or such stupidity. You didn't pin it on yourself, and you didn't leave your instuctor as a green and open your own shack as a "founder". (All of these are actual event)

I don't have a problem with skipping a level, as exceptional students are often bumped a grade in school, and I'm aware that some systems will promote based on time-in.

If you took a time-in promotion, yet have been on the mats teaching, training, growing as a person, a businessman, and a martial artist, then that is still passing the daily tests.

On the other hand, if you have been sitting on your ***, rarely if ever get on the floor, but bring the big kahuna in twice a year and line his pockets with green and got promoted, then, poo to you.

I've seen people promoted because of who they knew. I've also seen people beat incredible odds to train, and be promoted because of their personal tests. The former is cheap, the later, inspiring.

Oh, and to any "sokes" who will argue that they were examined by a board of their peers/seniors, I have 2 simple questions. 1-Has anyone ever failed the test? 2-Did you send raw footage, or an edited tape of your 'best'? Thought so.

Good Day

 

[ArmorOfGod]

I understand where you are going with your thought process, but there are exceptions to every rule. Not trying to start a fight, I have seen people go from white to blue belt in tae kwon do in 5 months so I know what you are talking about.

You know, over the past few years, I have found that I agree with that.
There are so many exceptions due to life stepping in. I don't like being promoted by associations, but what do you do if your sensei moves or dies and there is no one in your area to promote you.
Unfortunately, there are so many crooked orgs that it is near impossible to find a legit one that isn't just about the money.

AoG

 

[shesulsa]

Random Side note: What does sweating on ONE DAY at a test have to do with anything? Training should involve the "blood sweat and tears" over a period of time so one day and a test is really miniscule on the grand scale. If an instructor has seen you sweat and bleed in front of him/her for a certain period time (whatever their standards are) and they feel you are ready for a belt (whatever their standards are) what does a formal test have to say that the last few months and/or years working with you didn't already say? Nothing in my opinion, it's just a formality.

WORD!!

A test isn't how you do that day ... the test begins the first day you set foot on the mat. Every day in class is a test, every day out of class is a test. Every word that comes out of your mouth is a test.

The test is not the 20 minute kata run you did for your nth degree, or the choreographed sparring rounds you perform for nth gup. It's not the breaks, it's not the kicks, it's the cumulation of your training from day one forward, and how you react to the test you were administered. If you thought your test was going to be way harder and was, in your opinion, a joke, your reaction to that is part of your test. If your test was way harder than you prepared for, your reaction to THAT is part of your test.

Testing day is a formality ... little more.

 

[wade]

QUI-GON, since I've had both my knees operated on, one from a motorcycle accident when I was hit head on in my lane and the other from a TKD breaking act, I don't chase the ranks as much as I ambush them. I can't run for squat, but if I stay real still and don't make eye contact sometime they will wonder by and then I kinda just fall on them. I tried jumping on them once but it hurt my knees too much. The problem I have then is hanging on, they can be real slippery little bas, uh, things. :whip1:

As for refusing rank from a higher belt, don't do it. If they feel that you deserve the rank, take it, thank him/her and move on. If some one refuses me if I try to do it, I won't push the issue but you can bet it will be a cold day in hell before I offer or test them again. I won't say I won't, it's just that it will be a long time. Not being a snob or stuck up but if I am their instructor then it is my decision when they move up or not, not theirs. When they run their own schools then they can make those kind of decisions.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I heard a story about a guy once. Had a legit 1st black. Then had a falling out with his instructor, jumped to another org, got his 2nd for signing up. A year later, had another falling out, jumped again, this time to 4th. Spent a year on vacation, and came back a grandmaster in his own system now. Guy is in his mid 20's. Unreal.

Personally, I want ever belt I wear to be earned. If I want to buy one, I'll got to Walmart, get one with a buckle as I hate tying em, lol.

 

[KempoGuy06]

Personally not a fan of skipping belts at all. If you are really that good and have been doing it that long then you should know that A) your rank really doesn't mean that much and B) you'll get to the highest rank over time anyway if you are that good and contributing that much. So my question is what's the motivation and the rush for skipping degrees? It doesn't make you any better at DOING or TEACHING anything. It just makes you LOOK better to those that value the amount of tips on someone's belt. There really is no valid reason I've heard for skipping ranks as oppossed to waiting it out except when founding one's own system. In the last case it's a toss up whether or not the person wants to start their new system at the highest level or if they want their rank to progress as their system progresses like Ed Parker and a few others did.

Just want to make it clear that he didnt go in expecting his 10th. I trained for his 7th or whatever he was going for and then tested for it. Who ever the big wigs are that give you that kind of stuff decided that he deserved it so they awarded it to him. This is coming from my instructor and i have no reason to believe the information is false.

B

 

[shesulsa]

I've seen people promoted because of who they knew. I've also seen people beat incredible odds to train, and be promoted because of their personal tests. The former is cheap, the later, inspiring.

Oh, and to any "sokes" who will argue that they were examined by a board of their peers/seniors, I have 2 simple questions. 1-Has anyone ever failed the test? 2-Did you send raw footage, or an edited tape of your 'best'? Thought so.

Good Day

Just curious, TM ... what is your highest rank and who presided over your test?

 

[Haze]

If you train, as stated previously, and your instructor sees you from day to day is there anything wrong with being promoted without formal testing?

Was there formal testing when most of our arts where developed? Probably not.

My instructor is always telling me I need to test for higher rank. My reply,,,," If you think I deserve it, then promote me."

 

[shesulsa]

If you train, as stated previously, and your instructor sees you from day to day is there anything wrong with being promoted without formal testing?

Not necessarily.

Was there formal testing when most of our arts where developed? Probably not.

My teacher said that in Judo, when his teacher felt he had reached the appropriate next level he was handed his new belt and was told to put it on. "Here." Heh heh.

My instructor is always telling me I need to test for higher rank. My reply,,,," If you think I deserve it, then promote me."

Hm. Well ... in a TMA I can see where the attitude might keep you from getting promoted. :idunno:

 

[Kacey]

Oh, and to any "sokes" who will argue that they were examined by a board of their peers/seniors, I have 2 simple questions. 1-Has anyone ever failed the test?

Yes.

2-Did you send raw footage, or an edited tape of your 'best'? Thought so.

Raw footage. So I guess you're not right all the time, despite your expressed opinion of yourself, and of others' training and testing.

Please don't force your assumptions that we all cheat/don't deserve our belts/etc. on us simply because for some people it is true.

There are a lot of belt factories and McDojo's out there - that's not in debate. That does not mean, however, that everyone who has ever attained a rank did so in an inappropriate fashion. As has been said, my test for each rank began the day I stepped on the mat after the previous testing, and culminated in the test itself. Pretesting occurred throughout each time I stepped on the floor.

If it is not possible to fail, then it is not a test; however, as an instructor, I will not put a student up for testing who cannot pass - that is poor practice on my part. That does not, however, guarantee that students will pass, and I have had students who have not, for a wide variety of reasons, ranging from lack of effort at testing to a nervous breakdown (and a I mean that literally; said student has a biochemical mood disorder which includes anxiety, and lost it totally before testing - but he came back the next time and performed beautifully) - but performing under stress is part of the testing process. Anyone can perform in class, in familiar surroundings, with only classmates to watch, where the goal is catch and correct mistakes - it is much harder to perform in front of a test board, with family, friends, and cameras watching.

Just curious, TM ... what is your highest rank and who presided over your test?

What she said. For a person who is so concerned about the testing processes others undergo, I find it interesting that you call yourself "The Master" - a title I generally expected to be bestowed, not taken.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I tested but not in the traditional way. Mine were over a period of time. I still like the old school testing better though. My current rank is 6th dan just got it at the first of the month.

 

[Carol]

For a person who is so concerned about the testing processes others undergo, I find it interesting that you call yourself "The Master" - a title I generally expected to be bestowed, not taken.

"Master" is also the title for boy children. Once they grow up, they are called "Mister".

 

[The Master]

Just curious, TM ... what is your highest rank and who presided over your test?

An interesting question. My rank, is Mastre. The tester is no longer with us.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

An interesting question. My rank, is Mastre. The tester is no longer with us.

Now I really find this odd that you won't answer the question with anything other than that.

 

[Carol]

Yeah, it does appear that he is a Master Baiter.

Did I really just say that?

*ducking for cover*
:redcaptur