Debate: What is 'Rank' really worth?

[Steel Tiger]

Of course, my cert isn't, but to someone who doesn't know any better....it looks legit.

I agree with you on the keeping track of students. When properly done, it's just like any grade in a school, white is kindergarten, yellow is 1st grade, etc. Done wrong, well, suddenly we have GM's playing with Klingon weapons in a serious manner and naive students following along. People get hurt that way, especially when they see those magical words "grandmaster" or a high numeric rank that implies true mastery.

Well said Bob! I think there are two issues here which revolve around the same thing but operate at different ends of the spectrum. First there is the legimate need to motivate and keep track of students' progress, something the rank system does quite well. And second is the massive rank blowout at the top end of the scale which is usually all about ego and dollars.

Is it possible that there are ten ranks (generally) of BB because there are usually ten lower ranks? Has the system simply been created to have some symmetry and now is creating problems? Like Arnisador I can't tell you what the difference between a 7th and 8th degree is, these degrees are not so much earned as awarded.

As Bob said the problem we run into here is danger. It is so easy to acquire bogus rank that any toad can open a school based on the perception of mastery. This, of course, seriously affects genuine teachers who have increased insurance premiums and, perhaps, a loss of students to flashy, dodgy schools. It is hard to say what rank is really worth, but whatever it is, it is less than it was and far less than it should be.

 

[jks9199]

With $3 or so... my black belt will get me a cup of coffee at an overpriced, overhyped coffee chain.

However -- because of the esteem in which I hold the men who recommended me for it, because of the respect I have for the man who awarded it (and promoted me afterwards), and because of the respect I've earned from others within my system... that same black belt is beyond price.

I "bought" with years of training, sweating, and bleeding. I "paid" for it with loyalty, dedication, and commitment. How can you place a value on that? How can you compare the criteria that I met to the criteria that my teacher met... or that candidates today met? It's like when a psychologist asks you about your childhood... Last I heard, most of us only get one. What is there to compare it to?

To an outsider... It means I've got a piece of black fabric around my waist. Some folks think it means I'm 7 kinds of deadly... others think it means that I "sold out" my training for rank.

 

[IWishToLearn]

"but try to get a job teaching Judo at the YMCA (or community college, or military base, etc.) based solely on the fact that you're very, very good at throwing people."

But, when i walk in there with my 6th dan in fugu-ryu karate-te, my 3rd sash in shanghai style kung-fu, and 10th dan in Kunga-te, with my stylish certifications, see my website with all my 'known' martial arts buddies like Chuck Norris, I'm sure they will be in awe of my mad-ninja-skillz. After all, how much checking will they really do?

Oh, my cert?

It's legit btw.

Ok I'm going to attempt the deciphering.

Diploma

To Robert Hubbard
You are Hereby Confirmed to the rank of
Judan - 10th Dan
in the art of Karate Do in recognition of
the contributions that you have made by
your diligent study of the art.
xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx recognition of
xxx xxx xxx standards of the System.


Dated: January 1, 2006
xxx: Kwai Washalaka

Soke Dai Kwai Washalaka
Kungate Do International
Kungate Institute of Bujitsu Studies


Best I can do. What does it really say?

 

[Kacey]

Like jks, my rank is of value to me because it represents what people whose opinion I value think of my ability. The belt itself is meaningless; the stripes my sahbum gave me after my IV Dan test, which he took from the belt his sahbum gave him when he was awarded his IV Dan (the belt my sahbum's sahbum was given as a IV Dan) - those are priceless to me, even though they are only a pair of red pieces of fabric, each perhaps an inch wide (if unfolded) and maybe 6 inches long - because they represent his opinion of me, that I am worthy of such recognition.

As several others have said, color belt ranks serve another purpose: they motivate students at lower ranks, and provide clear guideposts for instructors in regards to what students can be expected to know. Having a syllabus for color belt ranks also helps students to know what they need to learn, and the sequence in which they will learn it, to help them organize their knowledge. By the time a student reaches black belt, s/he has learned how much is left to learn - and the learning itself becomes the goal, rather than the rank.

I have personal goals that include learning all the requirements for the next rank, but they are because I enjoy learning for the sake of learning; I will test next, if ever, when my sahbum says I am ready, and not before - nor will I ask about testing. Rank is no longer a motivating factor for me, but I will demonstrate my knowledge and abilities whenever I am asked to do so, and in the meantime, I will continue to learn to improve myself, because that is what is important to me now - but I didn't understand that as a color belt, and don't know if I would have had the motivation at that point to get to where I am now if i hadn't had color belt ranks to motivate me when I first started TKD.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ok I'm going to attempt the deciphering.

Diploma

To Robert Hubbard
You are Hereby Confirmed to the rank of
Judan - 10th Dan
in the art of Karate Do in recognition of
the contributions that you have made by
your diligent study of the art.
xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx recognition of
xxx xxx xxx standards of the System.


Dated: January 1, 2006
xxx: Kwai Washalaka

Soke Dai Kwai Washalaka
Kungate Do International
Kungate Institute of Bujitsu Studies


Best I can do. What does it really say?

It says:

DIPLOMA
To: Robert Hubbard
You are hereby confirmed to the rank of
soke - 10th Dan
in the art of Karate-do in recognition of
the great progress that you have made by
your diligent study of the art.

It is out wish that you will endeavor to
attain a higher standard in the future.

Date: January 1, 2006
Instructor: Kuni Wakaloha

Soke Dai Kuni Wakaloha
Kungate Do International
Kinison Institute of Bujutsu Studies


and has a whole lot of authentic Chinese on it....as well as legitimate endorsements by respected Japanese masters (those 2 red boxy things).

As to what the Chinese says......

have an eggroll on me.

 

[kidswarrior]

I think there are two issues here which revolve around the same thing but operate at different ends of the spectrum. First there is the legimate need to motivate and keep track of students' progress, something the rank system does quite well. And second is the massive rank blowout at the top end of the scale which is usually all about ego and dollars.

Exactly, ST.

This top end 'blowout' puts me in mind of the grade inflation in American universities in the late 60s/early 70s, supposedly begun by professors' desire to help college kids stay out of the military draft, and away from Vietnam. So, are we witnessing a similar MA rank inflation? I've only followed the Asian arts seriously for about 15 years, but still it rings true to me.

I have personal goals that include learning all the requirements for the next rank, but they are because I enjoy learning for the sake of learning; I will test next, if ever, when my sahbum says I am ready, and not before - nor will I ask about testing. Rank is no longer a motivating factor for me, but I will demonstrate my knowledge and abilities whenever I am asked to do so, and in the meantime, I will continue to learn to improve myself, because that is what is important to me now - but I didn't understand that as a color belt, and don't know if I would have had the motivation at that point to get to where I am now if i hadn't had color belt ranks to motivate me when I first started TKD.

Nicely said, Kacey, and very relevant for those of us who teach kids (as you do ).

 

[Bob Hubbard]

100 or so years ago, there weren't that many grandmasters, sokes, great grandmasters, etc.

You had teachers, and students.

Paperwork, was rare.

Today we seem to be bursting at the seams with new founders and grandmasters and 23 1/2 dans. Why?

Some of these folks, are legit. No question about it.

But when you look at some peoples resumes, they show high rank in 20+ arts, I start to question them.

Especially when you can't find reference to some of those arts anywhere else but their resumes.

Someone once told me that a particular school broke apart, so all the green belts (highest ranks there) awarded themselves black belts, and opened their own schools. All claimed to be 'founders' of spin off arts. Decades later, and several name changes later, they still struggle under the "mcDojo" label, teaching watered down and mix-n-match stuff to unsuspecting students.

Reading through the Great Debate here, you'll see several examples of others of questionable rank, taken to task, and totally outted as frauds. There are sites dedicated to outting some of these people.

Problem is, they make it hard for the legit instructors.

Can't hack it in a real school? Print your cert, send in a check or 3, and suddenly you're a "founder". Now go rent a store front and rake in the bucks.

The flip side of this is, some of these 'soke' boards induct you regardless, so that your name adds credibility to them. I know at least 2 respected instructors who were inducted against their desire and are still trying to get these sham fronts to remove their names from their web sites.

Of course, I get hit with "you don't understand". The problem is, I do, all too well.

I don't need a rank, title, or belt. The first 2, won't help me save my family. The third, well, it might be useful if I actually know how to use improve weapons...otherwise, it might just be that which hangs me.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Like jks, my rank is of value to me because it represents what people whose opinion I value think of my ability. The belt itself is meaningless; the stripes my sahbum gave me after my IV Dan test, which he took from the belt his sahbum gave him when he was awarded his IV Dan (the belt my sahbum's sahbum was given as a IV Dan) - those are priceless to me, even though they are only a pair of red pieces of fabric, each perhaps an inch wide (if unfolded) and maybe 6 inches long - because they represent his opinion of me, that I am worthy of such recognition.

This is a really cool concept, I like it. It creates a strong link to the past and the traditions of your art. But when I look at this excellent tradition it seems that the value or worth is not in the rank so much as it is in the ceremony and the stripes involved because it is they that represent the relationship between you and your sahbum and his sahbum. The ceremony places great value on IV Dan, but could take place at any rank, or even without rank being involved, though then the stripes might have to replaced with something else.

I like this tradition and wish I had something like this in my school's traditions.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

This is a really cool concept, I like it. It creates a strong link to the past and the traditions of your art. But when I look at this excellent tradition it seems that the value or worth is not in the rank so much as it is in the ceremony and the stripes involved because it is they that represent the relationship between you and your sahbum and his sahbum. The ceremony places great value on IV Dan, but could take place at any rank, or even without rank being involved, though then the stripes might have to replaced with something else.

I like this tradition and wish I had something like this in my school's traditions.

This, I think is where the real worth of the rank is. When someone says to you, in a personal way, "you are there", and it comes from the heart.

You can't, in my opinion, put a number or price on that, or show it in writing. It's personal, y'know?

 

[Steel Tiger]

This, I think is where the real worth of the rank is. When someone says to you, in a personal way, "you are there", and it comes from the heart.

You can't, in my opinion, put a number or price on that, or show it in writing. It's personal, y'know?

Yes Bob, I think you've nailed it.

 

[Last Fearner]

There have been excellent responses all around here - especially with Bob's original ask the question then answer it! (well done, by the way)

Anyhow, I will attempt to add my two cents worth (for what that's really worth!)

What is 'Rank' really worth?

In my assessment, there are two parts to this question. First is defining "rank," and the second is defining "worth."

If we are in agreement as to what rank is, then we can determine what it is worth, and to whom.

For the purposes of Martial Art, I like the following definitions provided by The American Heritage Dictionary (2000), mainly because that's the one I have laying around my office!

"rank n. 1c. a relative position or degree of value in a graded group.
v. 2. To give a particular order or position to; classify."

I think rank exists in all walks of life, whether we acknowledge it openly or not. Refusing to acknowlege it with certificates or belts does not make it go away, and personally, I don't see any benefit to the lack of recognition. In some cultures, people are respected and "valued" because of their age. Elders of a tribe are the lead council and decision makers. It matters not if they are 70, 80, or 90 years old, but they are considered wiser and more experienced than the younger generation of 20 - 60 year olds.

In these societies, one is your "senior" simply by being your elder - - being born before you. They are not necessarily wiser, smarter, or more educated, but customs and courtesies dictate that the youth show them respect. I think it is a shame that the American culture (an some others) cast their elders aside, and neglect their "worth" or what they might have to offer. Younger generations often think they are so smart; they have life all figured out, and they don't need to listen to some babbling old geezer!

In the Martial Art, "seniority" is typically determined by advanced education, experience, insight, and enlightenment rather than chronological age (although age has some bearing). A young instructor, with ten years experience, can teach a 60 year old beginner. Thus, the "senior" is the younger person who is the elder by rank, rather than age.

Rank might be as basic as "teacher - student." However, as schools grow, there are senior students who can help new students learn the basics. Their "classification" is automatic, even if not acknowledged by a belt or certificate. Then comes the senior instructor who has more years experience than a beginner instructor. Next is the Master who has trained many students to Black Belt, who each run their own schools, and the Master oversees all of the schools. Cities; Counties; States; Regions; National leadership.... 1 school; 10 schools; 100 schools... the distinction goes on and on.

If you can compare one person's skills, duties and responsibilities, past experience and knowledge to another person, you will automatically have ranks - - even if they are just implied. I think we should acknowledge that rank exists by itself, and some people use it for positive reasons of organization, structure, motivation, learning and teaching aides, and others misuse and abuse it.

The second issue is what is it worth? Well, what is "worth." The trusty dictionary defines it as "the quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable." Money (paper currency) is usually considered "valuable" or "worth" something, but only to those who recognize it as a form of exchange for what they really value. Take paper currency to some remote tribes and they might burn it for warmth. Substance from the ground (gold, silver, etc) is usually accepted as rare items of "worth" but only if the person you are dealing with desires gold and silver. The barter system exchanges goods for goods; services for services; or goods for services (corn for apples, or pigs for repairing the roof of my barn, or cattle for marrying my daughter).

The key here is whether or not it is "desirable," or "useful." People desire rank because it might give them a feeling of accomplishment, which should be understood that the skill is the accomplishment of value, but the rank is merely a matching reflection of the skill (when applied truthfully). The rank becomes "useful" when it helps a teacher guide a student to a goal, or when the senior student is an inspiration to a newer student who understands visual aides, but has not yet grasped the value of the education, and when the rank serves as a standard of excellence that others can identify as accurately representing a level of skill or knowledge.

Black Belts might not need such divisions, but then it might be a good reminder that simply being a Black Belt is not the end of your quest for knowledge, and there are distinctions between a beginner and a Master, or even a senior Master and a Grandmaster. Each of higher levels should have learned more in those years, such that they have something to offer the junior Black Belt. These distinctions occur naturally, and are there whether you recognize them or not. Recognizing them just makes it easier for lower ranks to see what is yet to come in future decades. The higher degrees should not be for the ego of the Grandmaster, but for the humility of the beginner Black Belt.

I think that the "worth" of such ranks are not just limited to one's own organization or group. If others outside of the Martial Art get a sense of worth for the Black Belt (and varying degrees) some will tend to show respect, and give due rewards. Employers often hire a person with Black Belt credentials because they believe they will be reliable, level headed, and provide good leadership. They typically understand that it took hard work, perseverance, and dedication to reach the rank, thus this person is likely to possess qualities desirable as an employee (military rank is often looked upon in the same way by prospective employers).

Therefore, in my opinion, rank is inevitable, and its worth depends on what you are applying it to, and who is deciding if it is desirable. Since you are not actually "selling" your rank to another person, its "worth" is determined by what benefits you gain by others recognizing your achievements. This could be done without the paper documents and belts, but is more difficult to convey without any acceptable standard. Forgeries can bring the value of legitimate credentials into question, but the worth is determined by convincing others that your "rank" is equivalent to the "value" of your skills, and having someone other than yourself saying it lends credibility to your claim.

Comparing ranks between different schools of Martial Art can be difficult, but not impossible. It is like the Fahrenheit and Celsius scales of temperature. Where one says 32 degrees, the other says "zero." Either way, nature dictates when water freezes or boils. You just have to make the translation just like between two different languages.

Well, that's my two and half cents! (for what it's worth)
CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[ChingChuan]

Well, my art also doesn't really have ranks so I don't know whether I am 'eligible' to post here, but I'll do it anyway.

What is 'Rank' really worth?

A rank shows your advancement (or position) in an art. So, it's an indicator, but the rank itself isn't the position itself, you could see it as a 'model'. (I agree with Last Fearner on this).

So, somehow, I can't really understand what the fuss is all about. Of course, there are many people who have only 'bought' their ranks and didn't train hard to achieve them, but isn't that just life?
Some people value money and go at great lengths to own as much money as possible, sometimes even harming innocent people in the process. But does that make the entire concept of money uh, not good? It's only about how you use it. Some people use money to help other people, other people use it to kill people. But the real worth of money is in the people not in the substance itself.
I think that the worth of ranks depends on the people who hold them. If it's a fraud, the rank isn't worth anything because the person holding it isn't worth anything. If it's a legitimate rank, it's worth quite much because of the person, who earned it himself.

Also, as many people said, the uhm, 'pleasure' one gets from a rank is mostly because he earned it himself. You might compare it with NaNoWriMo, a writing 'contest' in which the goal is to write a novel of 50,000 words or more. It's not a real contest, it's only for yourself (there's nothing to gain/lose by participating). Each year, there are people who try to ruin the fun because they submit & validate the word count of 'novels' of 100,000 or more words that they didn't actually write themselves. What's the point in that? The whole thing about NaNoWriMo is in achieving a goal that you set for yourself. Of course, you also get a nice certificate & some banners you can put on your site when you faked writing a novel, but you won't feel as happy as the people who barely managed 50,000 - because you didn't do it yourself, because you didn't challenge yourself & overcome it.

Isn't it the same with MA? Some people might be trying to spoil the fun for you by buying their ranks - but you are supposed to do MA for your own pleasure, because you want to uh, reach a goal. So, maybe it's best if we didn't let ourselves be distracted by the frauds. It's our goal to reach black belt or a higher rank, not that of the frauds...

Of course, those people need to be uhm, exposed because other people might get tricked. But I don't really know whether that's our responsibility (isn't it illegal to fake a high rank?) or not.

Concerning the ranks itself, so not about the worth but rather the... effects on the organisation, I don't really know whether they are the right thing to do.
A friend of mine, who practises Aikido, dislocated her thumb a while ago. So she can't participate (for the second time) in the kyu exams her school is holding. Now she's feeling quite left out because others will advance in rank but she can't because she can't join the exam. However, her skills (might be) as good as is required. So, in this case, the necessary prequisite for obtaining a rank (an exam) can make people feel... less worth because they can't even try.
Even though ranks can have a very good effect on one's motivation, it can also uh, make matters worse.

If you don't really have ranks (like my art), you'll never have to worry about exams and stuff, you just... learn. You know, with ranks, the uhm, curriculum is already set. You know almost exactly what you're going to learn etc. As we don't have a curriculum, you have a more... normal learning experience. You accumulate knowledge on your own pace, you'll start to discover more and more while you progress. I don't really know how to explain it.
Without ranks, no-one will ever feel left out or 'too slow' or something. With ranks, it's quite usual that you... progress each time there's an exam and if you don't and the others do, you won't be too happy. Without ranks you can't be 'degraded' or 'stuck'.

So, well... I don't really know whether ranks are a good thing, but what I do know is that we ought to uhm, stop worrying about all the people who misuse them.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I would think that the various levels of ability of the students would be obvious after a short period. And maybe this would establish a pecking order?

Maybe it would be best if I asked this question; define pecking order?

Your def and mine may be different so I will start there.

 

[Xue Sheng]

"but try to get a job teaching Judo at the YMCA (or community college, or military base, etc.) based solely on the fact that you're very, very good at throwing people."

But, when i walk in there with my 6th dan in fugu-ryu karate-te, my 3rd sash in shanghai style kung-fu, and 10th dan in Kunga-te, with my stylish certifications, see my website with all my 'known' martial arts buddies like Chuck Norris, I'm sure they will be in awe of my mad-ninja-skillz. After all, how much checking will they really do?

Oh, my cert?

It's legit btw.

Cool, thanks and it is now mine.

Either I can print it off to a good laser printer or have my wife write it up in traditional Chinese. I can handle the English Calligraphy.

As to what it is worth, well it cost me nothing.

 

[qi-tah]

Well, my art also doesn't really have ranks so I don't know whether I am 'eligible' to post here, but I'll do it anyway.

This thread is positively groaning under the pressure of all the ppl who aren't "eligible" to post here, so one more can't hurt - ah, hang on, my CMA school does have gradings and sashes! Phew!!

So, somehow, I can't really understand what the fuss is all about. Of course, there are many people who have only 'bought' their ranks and didn't train hard to achieve them, but isn't that just life?

Unfortunately yes. There are always going to someone out there who will thoughtlessly piss all over things that are important to you.

Concerning the ranks itself, so not about the worth but rather the... effects on the organisation, I don't really know whether they are the right thing to do.
A friend of mine, who practises Aikido, dislocated her thumb a while ago. So she can't participate (for the second time) in the kyu exams her school is holding. Now she's feeling quite left out because others will advance in rank but she can't because she can't join the exam. However, her skills (might be) as good as is required. So, in this case, the necessary prequisite for obtaining a rank (an exam) can make people feel... less worth because they can't even try.
Even though ranks can have a very good effect on one's motivation, it can also uh, make matters worse.

If you don't really have ranks (like my art), you'll never have to worry about exams and stuff, you just... learn. You know, with ranks, the uhm, curriculum is already set. You know almost exactly what you're going to learn etc. As we don't have a curriculum, you have a more... normal learning experience. You accumulate knowledge on your own pace, you'll start to discover more and more while you progress. I don't really know how to explain it.
Without ranks, no-one will ever feel left out or 'too slow' or something. With ranks, it's quite usual that you... progress each time there's an exam and if you don't and the others do, you won't be too happy. Without ranks you can't be 'degraded' or 'stuck'.

Now this i can totally relate to... i really find gradings a double edged sword. On the one hand i really get to benifit from the intensive training in the lead-up to a grading, but on the other hand what if you injure yrself just before a grading and can't go through with it? (Or worse still, push through the grading and damage yourself even more...) the frustration of not grading could really get in the way of evaluating your training. Actually, i have found that i really need to actively combat "post-grading drop" - does anyone else get this? I find that i have to push myself to go back to forms i've graded in, which is stupid 'cause they are the same forms, and i am the same as i was yesterday too, the only thing that is different is that now i have another patch on my sash which i hardly ever wear (I wore it once for a NYE demo and was so unused to it's length i nearly tripped over the damn thing).
The other issue i have with gradings is not understanding the way that the scores/decsions are arrived at - last year i saw a classmate of mine grade for 2nd Dan and really thought there was no way he would pass... but he just scraped through. My teacher had wanted me to skip a grade and grade that level too, but i didn't feel i was ready and so just went for my 1st Dan. Now i'm thinking all sorts of things - that i could have graded 2nd Dan and passed, but what would that have meant if you can be so lax and get away with it? For that matter, passing 1st Dan might not have mean much either if my scores had just been what was required. But then perhaps my classmate exhibited some essential principles of the form that i failed to grasp? Or maybe they just passed him 'cause he's been at the school since forever. So what are the essential principles that are being assessed anyway? My form changed so much in the last month leading up to the grading that it all seems new again anyway - *sigh* - if one of the purposes of grading is feedback, then count me confused!

Congrads if you've perservered to the end of this very rambling post - you deserve a sash/belt/string/whatever in linguistic combobulation!

(i don't even think that last is even a word...)

 

[chinto01]

Rank is only worth the paper it is printed on. A persons ability on the mat and what kind of person they are will speak volumes however.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[bluemtn]

Rank is only worth the paper it is printed on. A persons ability on the mat and what kind of person they are will speak volumes however.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

Great posts all the way around, and I especially like this one!

Belt ranks, for me anyways, are what I view as goals. Yes, that does mean I want to get to black belt eventually- but that's just a goal. It gives a sense of accomplishment! It wouldn't be any different though, if it was pink, periwinkle, polka- dot, neon green, white, whatever. It just tells me that I've made it this far, and gives me a chance to think on what I've learned over the years. Honestly, I'd be perfectly happy with no ranks, but since my art has them...

 

[Shotochem]

Rank........???

My level 14 elf is stronger than your level 6 cleric........

My Soke is bigger than yours......

What I'm really saying is that rank is realitive to whoever is bestowing it and by their criteria. The true value of this rank can only be determined by the wearer.

I gladly gave up my rank in my old style for a whitebelt in my new style. It had lost whatever value I had placed on it. I moved on.
More colorful belts and ranks. Yes I still test and recieve them when earned, but somehow it just dosent feel the same as before. I place my true value on the knowledge I obtain and the people I train with. If my instructor believes I should wear whatever rank, I will wear it. I respect him as a person and as an instructor. If I test frequently or not at all it really dosen't matter.

If I give my 2 year old a sticker for doing a good job he is thrilled and it is priceless at the moment.

If I give a sticker to my 13yr old I don't quite get the same reaction.

-Marc-

 

[LawDog]

For those who have worked long and hard to achieve the level of ability that it implies - everything,
For those who have put little or no effort into achieving the level of ability that it implies - nothing.
:supcool:

 

[Em MacIntosh]

If you EARNED and cherish your black belt wear it with humble pride. I've run into a few "soke" myself and I've been so far as tempted to demonstrate his "art" in front of his students. Never have but I've been tempted. It really dilutes the arts but that's the way she goes this day and age. Buyer beware! He's looking for the american dream, the quick money grab. It's up to US not to fall for HIS scheme. You and I know better than to join his dojo but what about those who don't? I respect the system of ancient china. Before you can teach in my town you have to prove how good your kung fu is. I know when I finally achieve my black belt, I'll feel that much more serious about my art. Until then, back to the makiwara.