Debate: What is 'Rank' really worth?

[stickarts]

Like jks, my rank is of value to me because it represents what people whose opinion I value think of my ability. The belt itself is meaningless; the stripes my sahbum gave me after my IV Dan test, which he took from the belt his sahbum gave him when he was awarded his IV Dan (the belt my sahbum's sahbum was given as a IV Dan) - those are priceless to me, even though they are only a pair of red pieces of fabric, each perhaps an inch wide (if unfolded) and maybe 6 inches long - because they represent his opinion of me, that I am worthy of such recognition.

As several others have said, color belt ranks serve another purpose: they motivate students at lower ranks, and provide clear guideposts for instructors in regards to what students can be expected to know. Having a syllabus for color belt ranks also helps students to know what they need to learn, and the sequence in which they will learn it, to help them organize their knowledge. By the time a student reaches black belt, s/he has learned how much is left to learn - and the learning itself becomes the goal, rather than the rank.

I have personal goals that include learning all the requirements for the next rank, but they are because I enjoy learning for the sake of learning; I will test next, if ever, when my sahbum says I am ready, and not before - nor will I ask about testing. Rank is no longer a motivating factor for me, but I will demonstrate my knowledge and abilities whenever I am asked to do so, and in the meantime, I will continue to learn to improve myself, because that is what is important to me now - but I didn't understand that as a color belt, and don't know if I would have had the motivation at that point to get to where I am now if i hadn't had color belt ranks to motivate me when I first started TKD.

That sums it up well for me. Thanks Kacey, you saved me lots of typing! Good post.
I don't judge myself but leave that to my seniors, peers, and students. I have earned various ranks from various people and organizations and I consider them testimonials that I have in fact trained and progressed, but the certificates that mean the most to me are the ones directly from a teacher that I personally trained a great deal with that I consider to be my senior. It is a personal accomplishment to be recognized by them.

If a student feels that I can help them toward their goals then I am happy to help them. If they feel I am not a good fit for them there is never hard feelings on my part.
I like to keep it simple.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sorry I just got ot post this


What is 'Rank' really worth?
From AWMA $8.95 per belt, it just depends on how many belts you need I guess.

 

[kidswarrior]

Sorry I just got ot post this


What is 'Rank' really worth?
From AWMA $8.95 per belt, it just depends on how many belts you need I guess.

That sounds high. I get mine for $4.95, and often on sale at $3.95.

Hey, I wonder if that makes the ranking worth less?

 

[Steel Tiger]

That sounds high. I get mine for $4.95, and often on sale at $3.95.

Hey, I wonder if that makes the ranking worth less?

Surely finding a bargain shows a good eye so the rank is more valuable.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Wouldn't it be funny funny if black belts cost a thousand dollars and gave you super powers when you put one on?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Sometimes they do, and then the people think they did. lol

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I'd wear four or five at the same time and take over the world with my lightning bolts

 

[ChingChuan]

Wouldn't it be funny funny if black belts cost a thousand dollars and gave you super powers when you put one on?

You know what, when I was... nine or so, I tried to braid a black belt.

 

[ChingChuan]

Hm. I just discovered that the proper word was 'knit'. You know, with needles and stuff. Fortunately I never finished the thing... (A)

 

[seasoned]

Rank is different for an individual as he continues to train. For the new student it measures his progress for his fighting ability. As he moves through the ranks his confidents builds as his rank increases. With the right dojo and the right instructor a subtle change begins to take place within that may go unnoticed by the individual. With the tempering of the body and the focusing of the mind a connection begins to take place starting deep inside of our being. As we train, our thinking is superficial in nature as we hone our abilities. As time passes, and as long as our training is consistent, our minds turn inward and at this point a new person emerges. Rank will come but it will be less important as our focus changes. Fighting becomes less important and we begin to see ourself in a different light. If we have trained for a long time a true maturity takes place that is seen and felt by all, and at that point fighting is meaningless. You see I feel that a true sensei is a person that teaches a student to fight so they don’t have to fight. This Sensei is more interested in the person as a human being rather then a stepping stone for ego. At this point rank is important because we know in our heart what it took to get there but the person that emerged along the way is the most important.

 

[terryl965]

Rank just lppk her on MT we have so many GrandMasters oh wait they are watching me, no thta is just me in the mirror, all I know is here on MT I'm a GrandMaster and even better I"m the Ultimate Post Whore Extreme and that is the ultimate rank in the world. LOOK AT ME MOM I'M ON TOP OF THE WORLD

 

[Drac]

Yeah...Must be a full moon somewhere..Busy day...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Mod Note: Off topic posts move to bar & grill.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

To me, rank is something my instructor uses to tell him here I am in the curriculum. Beyond that, it doesn't hold a great deal of meaning to me. Oh, don't get me wrong here. Each time I go up a level, it feels pretty darn good. Accomplishing each level felt great. But, outside my organization, under the same requirements, I could be a level below, a level ahead, even several levels ahead. It all depends. Even in an art like EPAK where there are set curriculums that in theory should be the same across organizations and schools, there are enough variations that you still can't answer the question of who's better. The tests are pass-fail, there is no GPA to compare in martial arts. And, if you don't renew with the org each year, the stop knowing who you are, so there is only your word that you did it.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Even in Acadamia a GPA will vary in meaning based on where the GPA was achieved. Though I think that your above post is pretty right on Bob!

 

[arnisador]

The tests are pass-fail, there is no GPA to compare in martial arts.

This is a good point, though in some sense being an orange rather than yellow belt is already intended as a measure of skill beyond pass-fail. But within orange, yes, there will be unmarked differences. (That's probably good.) It even goes beyond this: Look at all 5th degree black belts in an art. All are good at all aspects, presumably, but some are advancing primarily based on technical performance, others on competition, others on teaching, others on service to the art/org., etc. It's that way at most jobs, frankly--one specializes. For my next promotion at work I have to be good in three major areas and outstanding in one. Different people are outstanding in different areas.

 

[kidswarrior]

Even in Acadamia a GPA will vary in meaning based on where the GPA was achieved. Though I think that your above post is pretty right on Bob!

Yes, I agree Bob and Brian. There's no GPA in MA gradings, and frankly I'm glad. Would be just one more thing for some to say they're better than ___________ whoever. That misses the point, to me. For me, my rank may be given by others, but is vested only with the significance I know it carries in my heart of hearts. And as Bob said, this can vary even with a fairly objective curriculum (kenpo). And as Brian added, even the same GPA can have different significance from institution to institution--even dept. to dept. within the same school.

Then there's the human factor in awarding grades: teachers/professors sometimes have pets, while there are others they dislike; some students will 'get' certian profs and not others, etc., etc. Then there's the student who will be able to get better grades by being the professor's darling, or whatever (fill in your own experience). Others settle for a lesser grade--still passing, even good, but not the top grade--but refuse to kiss anyone's anatomy along the way.

Hopefully, the MA applications of the analogy are not too obscure to be useful.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Based upon where this originally started, as I posted here: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=788140&posted=1#post788140

I am not interested in continuing in this thread.

I apologize if anyone asks a question of me here. If so, let me know in private, for I do not wish to continue this discussion. It only adds to what some people think is their importance.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You've that right Rich.

Back to the college/martial arts comparison, the favoritism is a good issue. I've heard stories of people being promoted because of who they new, and more importantly, how they knew them, in both fields. So, when you sleep your way to blackbelt, what does that really make your belt worth? More importantly, what does is make everyone else's worth?

 

[kidswarrior]

You've that right Rich.

Rich, sorry to hear that the thread took a turn you didn't want.

Back to the college/martial arts comparison, the favoritism is a good issue. I've heard stories of people being promoted because of who they new, and more importantly, how they knew them, in both fields. So, when you sleep your way to blackbelt, what does that really make your belt worth? More importantly, what does is make everyone else's worth?

Exactly, Bob. And we could even back it off a notch and still be spot on: someone may just flirt their way along (no gender issue here, as instructors come in all brands and preferences), or just suck up to the necessary degree. Example: not point out where a professor is patently wrong (time and place for this, of course). Probably all of us who are beyond a certain age have seen this in school, workplace, or the MA.