What does an online bully look like to you?

[Twin Fist]

look at history and tell me i am wrong. What has solved more conflicts, violence or talking?



I'll wait...................













thats what i thought

If what you say is true, then there is no place for rule of law and peace. Everything is solved by who can be the most violent. That is very chaotic and actually an anathema to what most human beings strive for, even those who use violence asa tool. In my experience, people who voice such opinions on violence, hostility, and force do so when they are the ones using such deplorable tools, but have as much issue with those things as the next person when they are victim to such things. If you indeed believe this stuff, then you would have no problem with someone taking your hard earned money at gun point or knife esge because after all, they are willing to use violence and are in a stronger position to you.

Telling a person to use violence as the go to technique as the answer for anything is not only wrong, but irresponsable. Yeah, sometimes violence is the answer to a problem. However that should be a last resort. Anyone who uses it as a first response is damaged and usually seperated by prison walls from the rest of us.

 

[Steve]

look at history and tell me i am wrong. What has solved more conflicts, violence or talking?



I'll wait...................













thats what i thought

What??? Are you saying that aggression and violence have solved more problems than diplomacy and negotiation? You're kidding. Right? You're being sarcastic.

 

[Steve]

You are 100% correct with this! However, in the case of the online bulling, that led to that teenage girl killing herself, well, obviously we're talking about a kid vs an adult. A teen girl, who thought, that a boy was interested in her, only to suddenly turn on her...well, I think you know where I'm going.

As for an adult....well, like I said, I agree with what you said above...words on a screen really can't physically hurt you. Its easy to block someone, ignore someone, etc. Yet, interestingly enough, I've seen some reported posts by people on this forum, who I swear seem devastated by what others say. So that said, I have to wonder.....are those words really hurtful....or should people just man up and not let it bother them?

Just want to point out again that Bullying /= Murder or suicide. Or even physical pain. Guys, let's remember what we're talking about here.

 

[Twin Fist]

what ended ww2?
ww1?
the revolution?
name me ONE war that was ended by negotiation.......

the cold war? nope

diplomacy always fails, and violence always gets the other guy to agree to try diplomacy

violence gets stuff done

read your own signature

What??? Are you saying that aggression and violence have solved more problems than diplomacy and negotiation? You're kidding. Right? You're being sarcastic.

 

[Steve]

what ended ww2?
ww1?
the revolution?
name me ONE war that was ended by negotiation.......

the cold war? nope

diplomacy always fails, and violence always gets the other guy to agree to try diplomacy

violence gets stuff done

read your own signature

Ahhh... there's your problem. Who the hell is talking about wars besides you? We're talking about bullies. Not WWII. And of course a war is violent. Jesus christ. If it weren't violent, they'd call it something other than war.

Are you saying that every conflict you have in your life ends with violence? While I'm not surprised, I'm a little alarmed that you'd admit it so openly. While wars might be inherently violent, adults typically use their words. We like to try and teach our kids to do the same. Do you teach kids at your school? What a frightening thought. What the hell kind of example are you setting?

 

[Twin Fist]

are you capable of posting without throwing personal insults?

you last post alone contained no less than 5 insults and little else

I shall not let you get me in hot water. Go have your estrogen party on your own.

good bye

 

[Cyriacus]

Ahhh... there's your problem. Who the hell is talking about wars besides you? We're talking about bullies. Not WWII. And of course a war is violent. Jesus christ. If it weren't violent, they'd call it something other than war.

Are you saying that every conflict you have in your life ends with violence? While I'm not surprised, I'm a little alarmed that you'd admit it so openly. While wars might be inherently violent, adults typically use their words. We like to try and teach our kids to do the same. Do you teach kids at your school? What a frightening thought. What the hell kind of example are you setting?

Wars are just the Metaphor hes using, since everyone can Relate to them.

Hes saying, that hed rather take Action to Protect His Wellbeing, than to do place Dependence on Legal Systems. Which arent Present, for Online Bullies.
He already stated much earlier though, that He thinks People shouldnt be so Affected by such things.
It was mostly in Defense of His Opinion that this Discussion was Railroaded into Metaphorical Comparisons.

Read the Previous Page - He didnt mention Wars until He had to Defend His Viewpoint.

In any Case, perhaps be should Stop Bickering, and sway into things we wont Inherently Disagree on.
Gentlemen.
And Womenfolk.

 

[seasoned]

We definitely have covered the issue of on line bullying, and have actually managed to try a hand at on line sparring. With that said, I assume you are now showing what shots below the belt are. At this point in a sparring match the ref would say "on the line, turn your back, fix your Gi, and sit legs crossed. Don't waste it all here, there will be other days. Just a thought.

 

[Cyriacus]

We definitely have covered the issue of on line bullying, and have actually managed to try a hand at on line sparring. With that said, I assume you are now showing what shots below the belt are. At this point in a sparring match the ref would say "on the line, turn your back, fix your Gi, and sit legs crossed. Don't waste it all here, there will be other days. Just a thought.

...But whos Groin was Hurt in this Altercation?

Does He need a Doctor?
A...
Online Sparring...

GIMME A FEW MINUTES!

*You wouldnt know, but im leaving that in there for the sake of it. This is an Edit*
http://www.toribash.com/
HAHA!
Now we can Kill each other in Sparring. ONLINE!
Do I Win? The Bout?

 

[Monroe]

what ended ww2?
ww1?
the revolution?
name me ONE war that was ended by negotiation.......

the cold war? nope

diplomacy always fails, and violence always gets the other guy to agree to try diplomacy

violence gets stuff done

read your own signature

War between Britain and the US. Do you have any idea how many times Canada prepared for war post War 1812? In the end Britain and the US negotiated rather than going to war yet again.

 

[Twin Fist]

because of the threat of war

it is NOT human nature to solve things peacefully

Notice there are not cro-magnons AND neanderthalls anymore? one killed the other out

and it isnt just us.

you ever see a lion negotiating with a gazelle?

 

[WC_lun]

Again, TF, I can't actually believe you support the position you are taking here. I think your own personal life probably is counter to your arguement. How often do you resort to the threat of violence or violence itself in your dealings with other people? I imagine in almost all cases you use "diplomacy," otherwise you're posting quite a bit for someone in prison and considered anti-social.

Diplomacy is the norm and used way more often than war, and successfully. That is why war is considered a tool of last resort for sane people and war is seen as such a huge deal when it is done. For an example, if diplomacy did not work, the Cuban missile crisis would have resulted in probable nuclear war with Russia.

 

[MJS]

Just want to point out again that Bullying /= Murder or suicide. Or even physical pain. Guys, let's remember what we're talking about here.

Hey Steve,

Yes, I see what you're saying. My point with what I said was simply....apparently words are hurtful, because judging by the RTMs that I see, people are upset by them.

For what its worth, when I was in school, I was picked on/bullied. Not to the extent of some, but it was bullying, nonetheless. Was it upsetting? Sure. Did it bother me? Sure. Did I think about taking my own life? Not at all. Some deal with this differently, and sadly, many times, it results in suicide. I think the way that I dealt with this, was a much more effective way, vs. killing myself.

 

[Twin Fist]

For an example, if diplomacy did not work, the Cuban missile crisis would have resulted in probable nuclear war with Russia.

yes, it worked because of the threat of violence if the russians didnt back down

the threat of war was the deciding factor, not hand holding, not shared feelings.

the threat of nuclear war made the russians blink, and back down,

Saddam didnt respond to us till we told him in no uncertain terms that we would take his head.

gadaffi saw what happened to saddam, and just the threat of it happening to him made him back down.

you just proved my point for me


Diplomacy, without the threat of war to back it up never works, never has worked and never will. It flies in the face of reality and 4 billion years of genetic coding.

 

[Steve]

The thread has drifted a bit, but I'll try to catch up.

First, I understand that war was used as a metaphor. I think it was a pretty bad one. I don't believe that people are in combat daily. But the point that I was making is that by the time you're in a war, you are in a war. Seems pretty obvious, but related to bullies, by the time you're in a fight, you're in a fight. But that ignores every time there was conflict without violence. People can be at odds with each other without violence.

@MJS, that's what I was driving at. Not about words. Words can be irritating, but that usually doesn't translate to violence. In responding to the points about murder, I was really responding to the general drift of the thread that seemed to be equating bullying necessary to physical violence, and even in some posts directly to death and murder.

While bullying CAN involve physical violence, it is often more subtle. While it CAN end with suicide in some very extreme cases, it often does not. Most people are bullied at some time in their lives or another, and just about everyone survives.

That's really what I was getting at. While I am interested in the topic of bullying, and in this thread, cyberbullying, I want to be careful not to move to a more extreme position that I believe is reasonable.

As for insulting you, Twin Fist, I disagree almost 100% with almost everything you say. I try to address your posts, and not attack you. If you feel attacked, it doesn't matter what I intended, and I apologize. You mentioned that you've been bullied all your life, and for my part, I'm going to make an effort to stop picking on you here.

 

[Blade96]

what ended ww2?
ww1?
the revolution?
name me ONE war that was ended by negotiation.......

the cold war? nope

diplomacy always fails, and violence always gets the other guy to agree to try diplomacy

violence gets stuff done

read your own signature

Korean war was stopped by peace talks (though there was not any peace treaty signed, technically they are still at war because there was no paper signalling war's over)

 

[Steve]

Korean war was stopped by peace talks (though there was not any peace treaty signed, technically they are still at war because there was no paper signalling war's over)

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Fight-Avoiding-Surviving/dp/1592406319/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2

Heard about this book on the radio driving in this morning. Written by a couple of karate school owners in West Seattle. It's called How to Win a Fight: A Guide to Avoiding and Surviving Violence.

I still maintain that most bullying does not involve physical violence. But to address a larger point made about violence in general, this book, according to the interview with the author I heard today, talks primarily about how to avoid violence. It discusses de-esclalation, conflict avoidance and all of the things I've talked about in other threads that I believe are MORE important skills in self defense than being able to fight.

Violence or the threat of violence isn't as pervasive as some here suggest. We have to be able and willing to do what needs to be done, but recognize that violence on any scale is usually avoidable and often unnecessary.

 

[WC_lun]

TF, I do not think your point has been proven, but whatever. Why don't you answer my question about how often you use violence or the threat of violence in your own life? I think that is more indicitive to the truth of your theory than anything else.

 

[Twin Fist]

" Korean war was stopped by peace talks "
yeah, diplomacy AFTER 4 years of fighting.

diplomacy without the threat of violence behind it doesnt work.

is anyone seriously trying to dispute that?

 

[Twin Fist]

5th

i wont admit to comitting any crimes on a message board

TF, I do not think your point has been proven, but whatever. Why don't you answer my question about how often you use violence or the threat of violence in your own life? I think that is more indicitive to the truth of your theory than anything else.