What can a boxer gain from WC?

[Kung Fu Wang]

I think one is treading on dangerous turf if one tries to tell others what is or is not in their system.

If I said that something is in my MA system, I can put up a clip to prove it. Is that the most honest way for online discussion?

 

[wingchun100]

that really where i find wing Chun hard to fathom,? If you are at a distance you can be a rooted as you like, it doesn't matter they cant hit you, when they come close, THEN you need to be up on your toes and moving.

that's the very opposite of wing Chun, where,,, when at a distance move around, when they are close enough to hit you, stand there like a Taylors dummy, whilst they punch you, it defies logic, and is a close copy of how drunks tend to fight

Rooting doesn't mean you are rooted forever like a statue. The rooting is what helps you draw your power. I have been in situations where your typical alpha male bar patron was in my face, trying to push me or circle around me. If he goes off to my right, I don't keep facing the direction where he WAS standing.

 

[Flying Crane]

If I said that something is in my MA system, I can put up a clip to prove it. Is that the most honest way for online discussion?

You can say what you want about your own system.

Your concept of what makes your system is your own. It may differ dramatically from that of others.

You can read my earlier post #83, for a sense of my view on it.

But that’s just me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In the Wing Chun I learned, you rotate the body when you punch, namely the hip, especially when punching from a distance. It's a slightly different mechanic than boxing though.

When Yeh Men punch in his SNT form (0.10 - 0.16), his shoulder is not moving. His shoulder and arm are in a 90 degree angle. His body is not rotated either.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You can say what you want about your own system.

Your concept of what makes your system is your own. It may differ dramatically from that of others.

I have always believed that if I can't prove it, I won't say it. So what you are saying is it's not proper to ask others to prove what they have said.

 

[TMA17]

One of my WC teachers said he can access the rooting power when needed, from wherever.

To me this all goes back to WC in its pure form is not really designed for combat sport fighting. That’s why you see others modifying it.

WC is great for quick encounters such as being at a bar etc. and acting quickly.

I’ve been watching Adam Chan’s videos on YouTube. He’s incredible but he’s demonstrating what would normally happen in a street fight which usually don’t last more than a few minutes at most. WC is great for that.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have always believed that if I can't prove it, I won't say it. So what you are saying is it's not proper to ask others to prove what they have said.

Read my earlier post, #83, for a sense of my point of view.

 

[TMA17]

*just an observation but the maturity level of the members on this board is great. Some of the other forums are full of raging meat head lunatics. Lol

 

[Flying Crane]

*just an observation but the maturity level of the members on this board is great. Some of the other forums are full of raging meat head lunatics. Lol

Well, we all have our moments...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In my experience, the system isn’t the techniques. Rather, it is a way to approach the training and the application, regardless of the technique. Some techniques become primary in a system mainly because they embody and illustrate that approach especially well.

Once you understand that, you can pick up a technique from elsewhere and it will have a place within your system, as long as your approach to training and applying it is consistent.

I understand the approach of

principle -> techniques

But technique such as

- flying side kick,
- fly knee,
- spinning hook kick,
- hip throw,
- leg twist,
- leg lift,
- ...

will require special stretching and special training. If you (general YOU) know the "principle", you still may not be able to do the "spinning hook kick" if you don't have the flexibility.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have always believed that if I can't prove it, I won't say it. So what you are saying is it's not proper to ask others to prove what they have said.

Here is another way of looking at it.

If you earn a degree in chemistry and then get a job as a chemist, in your work are you limited to doing only what you can find as a direct example in your textbooks?

Or do you take your knowledge of how chemistry works, and tackle new problems that may require unique and creative solutions?

I would hope you do the latter.

Your formal studies teach you the foundation and the theory, and how to approach a problem to find a solution. It gives you a body of useful tools, but not every tool. Some you will need to find on your own, but you should have the skills and knowledge to do so effectively. That is what your training should give you. It isn’t to simply regurgitate what you did in the classroom.

 

[Flying Crane]

I understand the approach of

principle -> techniques

But technique such as

- flying side kick,
- fly knee,
- spin hook kick,
- hip throw,
- leg twist,
- leg lift,
- ...

will require special stretching and special training. If you (general YOU) know the "principle", you still may not be able to do the "spin hook kick" if you don't have the flexibility.

Sure. And anyone can do that, and that technique can have a place in the curriculum, even if it hasn’t been formally taught as such.

I don’t see a lot of point in defining a curriculum. Rather, define the principles and the approach and the methodology, and then recognize how any technique may be part of that theory.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is another way of looking at it.

If you earn a degree in chemistry and then get a job as a chemist, in your work are you limited to doing only what you can find as a direct example in your textbooks?

Or do you take your knowledge of how chemistry works, and tackle new problems that may require unique and creative solutions?

I would hope you do the latter.

Your formal studies teach you the foundation and the theory, and how to approach a problem to find a solution. It gives you a body of useful tools, but not every tool. Some you will need to find on your own, but you should have the skills and knowledge to do so effectively. That is what your training should give you. It isn’t to simply regurgitate what you did in the classroom.

The discussion has been switched from "What you can learn from your MA system" to "What you can develop by yourself".

As self-development, I agree with you there.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don’t see a lot of point in defining a curriculum. Rather, define the principles and the approach and the methodology, and then recognize how any technique may be part of that theory.

We may talk about MA in general here and not just for the WC system. One of the throwing "principle" is to

- push the head down,
- kick/sweep/hook/... the leg up.

But this principle can map into over 100 different throws. IMO, even if you (general YOU) understanding the principle, you still may not understand all the techniques.

One of the Zimen system principles is "残(Can) - to damage, to injury, to kill". Some principles are just too high level to be any useful.

 

[jobo]

Rooting doesn't mean you are rooted forever like a statue. The rooting is what helps you draw your power. I have been in situations where your typical alpha male bar patron was in my face, trying to push me or circle around me. If he goes off to my right, I don't keep facing the direction where he WAS standing.

no you move like a particulary stiff robot to face the new direction, and then stand there like a Taylors dummy again

 

[Flying Crane]

The discussion has been switched from "What you can learn from your MA system" to "What you can develop by yourself".

As self-development, I agree with you there.

But if you cannot apply your system outside of the “formal curriculum” then you haven’t learned much. The formal curriculum, while hopefully useful, isn’t the point. It is just a bridge to get you farther than that.

Otherwise you have only learned to regurgitate from the textbook, without any deeper understanding.

 

[Martial D]

If you have ever fought golden glove boxing, you will find out that your opponent are all animals. They try to kill you in the ring. Since you try to knock down your opponent ASAP, you then add "body rotation" into your punch, and you start to violate the WC principle.

The lacking of "body rotation" in WC bother me more than anything else.

Agreed, and another reason why I see my WC as a situational tool more than anything.

 

[Flying Crane]

We may talk about MA in general here and not just for the WC system. One of the throwing "principle" is to

- push the head down,
- kick/sweep/hook/... the leg up.

But this principle can map into over 100 different throws. IMO, even if you (general YOU) understanding the principle, you still may not understand all the techniques.

One of the Zimen system principles is "残(Can) - to damage, to injury, to kill". Some principles are just too high level to be any useful.

You would probably still need instruction in those other throws, but then you can see how the principles are consistent. But this does not mean that the technique should be considered “not part of this system”. It follows the principles, and the system really is the principles, not the specific technique.

As for the kill bit, I don’t feel those are principles, at least not how I use the term. I mean principles of biomechanics and movement, the fundamentals that are consistent with every technique, that make it effective, and efficient beyond mere athleticism.

 

[DanT]

When Yeh Men punch in his SNT form (0.10 - 0.16), his shoulder is not moving. His shoulder and arm are in a 90 degree angle. His body is not rotated either.

Correct, he doesn't move his shoulder in the SLT form. However, SLT serves to isolate techniques to make them easier to learn. I agree with you that for the most part, beginner Wing Chun emphasizes "train arm first, learn to move body later". This does not mean that techniques are executed without body movement in application. Once students learn to move the arm properly, we then generally teach them to add in the stance and hip movement. Take the turning stance drill we do. We punch and turn our stance to 30-45 degrees. Taking this turn of the waist and stance, you apply it the same way when you fight and punch, especially from a distance. Yun Ma Lik is an important element of my Wing Chun. Take a look at the video below, he doesn't do things the same way I do, but the concept is the same:

 

[Danny T]

When Yeh Men punch in his SNT form (0.10 - 0.16), his shoulder is not moving. His shoulder and arm are in a 90 degree angle. His body is not rotated either.

And as someone who says he has experience in wc you should also know why in SNT the body isn't rotated yet in CK and BJ there is rotation which is connected with the punch. Or, possibly you don't know.