Weight training is TOTAL rubbish for Aikidoka?

[exile]

I have recnetly dropped the weight on my squats and started going a little lower. I was finding that I was not able to get low enought for some of techniques. Also, finially got the form and contracting of Ab's during the form correctly down.

Yeah, that's another thing about squats: if your abs aren't really strong it doesn't matter a bit how good your quads already are. That does't mean that squats aren't good if you can do them---they work your core and shoulders as well as your quads, one of the all time greatest compound excercises there is. But they're pretty unforgiving. I used to do them in a power rack, short range, with the bins way up high and even then, it got to be too much---I could almost feel the discs in my spine imploding.

I do have a leg press in the basement, should have seen my wife's face when that showed up at the front door.

That will happen... good that got to keep it though. I wouldn't have been able to...

It is kind of buried now while I finish off the basement. I have the sanding and paint part left. I have it setup where half is a weight room and the other half I can lay three 8ft x 4ft mats for Aikido training. I also have a heavy bag in the far corner and a treadmill area. Just have to find the time to finish everything.

Good that you have enough space for all that---I'd love to get a heavy bag, but there's nowhere in our house to hang it.

Not sure if I can plug things on this forum, but the functional training book I just finshed was from a guy named Juan Carlos Santana. I think amazon has some of his books and DVD's. The books are cheaper then the study version I bought since I have to pay for the testing afterwards.

Sounds interesting---I'll go to Amazon and check it out. Thanks for the reference.

 

[Jenna]

I agree with the second assessment. However, with enough time and practice, anyone could gain correct Aikido movements. It doesn't just have to be for strong people either. A lot of people, big and small, are uncoordinated. Aikido is a lot more difficult to get than other styles, which focus on hard movements. Also, yes being based on technique, smaller people are at an advantage in the beginning. Their whole lives have adapted to getting things done being smaller and weaker. Also remember that the first Aikidoka were men, who are bigger and stronger than the women, and look at how magical the old masters became. Proof of this argument.

As for your first assessment, could be many factors.

Last, Yes, I also agree that time and Aikido practice is the key to getting it. (for everyone) And the context is whether or not weight training is TOTAL RUBBISH. In that context, no it is not. There are benefits.

Hey Hand Sword-san yes good points here.. and there is often an assumption that smaller folk (of which I am one) are somehow naturally more adept at Aikido than larger guys from the outset.. I am not certain where this stereotype originates from but simply is not true.. I still maintain though that having the "appropriate" muscle / bulk for your frame is of utmost importance in Aikido.. and I am not referring to muscle TONE but rather bulk.. I can only relate my observations anecdotally but those excessively bulky guys.. and it IS mostly guys.. do not have the contact sensitivity to give them the edge in reaction.. I have found I can use this to my own advantage and have realised recently that I am less apprehensive doing any kind of randori with bulky guys than with less bulky guys irrespective of height or natural build simply because I know they react slower to whatever I might try..

But to reply to your point I do not with to deride anyones training and weights I appreciate are an important aspect of many arts even Aikido.. all I am saying is that I do not believe there is merit in bulking up to ANY extent if an artist is serious about maximising the yield from their Aikido and their Aikido training..

Thank you again

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[exile]

I still maintain though that having the "appropriate" muscle / bulk for your frame is of utmost importance in Aikido.. and I am not referring to muscle TONE but rather bulk.. I can only relate my observations anecdotally but those excessively bulky guys.. and it IS mostly guys.. do not have the contact sensitivity to give them the edge in reaction

Jenna---something you said there rang a bell. I have done enough heavy lifting over the past ten years to know that a lot of people you meet in the gym with extreme muscle development got that way because of steroids, growth hormone and other chemical aids. It's very hard for women to get bulky in their upper bodies because they have a much smaller number of fast-twitch muscles above the waist than men do; but it's also hard for most men, even big `endomorph' types, to get really hyperdeveloped musculature. The body fights you tooth and nail on the point. There's a very small number of women and a somewhat larger number of men use steroids to overrided the body's reluctance to add muscle tissue, but unlike normal muscle growth in adolescence, the growth that comes from steroids really is out of proportion to their bodies---literally: their skeletal frame and connective tissue do not bulk up to match the muscle growth that they anabolic cocktails give them. So a really bulky guy has a lot of muscles which are unsupported by the anatomical infrastructure they would need to be able to use those muscles in the kind of functionally effective way that martial arts demand. Pro bodybuilders are always having to undergo serious surgery to fix or reattach torn muscles/tendons/ligaments, for just this reason---they need much stronger attachments than they have to do what they think they should be able to do with rows or presses. Dorian Yates, the former Mr. Olympia, is just the most recent example I can think of among elite bodybuilders who had to retire when they finally tore too much muscle for anyone to really fix, but the same thing happens at much less exalted levels of weight training.

So it couldbe that some of the really bulky guys you've dealt with in Aikido have just this problem---big, steroidally-grown muscles, but not nearly enough of the other anatomical supports necessary to actually apply that strength. Imagine a very big heavy puppet controlled by very thin, not very strong cords, trying to do something that requires efficient movement, fluidity and good balance...

It's one possibility, at least, for some of the cases you've referred to.

 

[exile]

I just wanted to make it clear that I don't think every guy with extreme muscle development is using steriods or other chemical boosts; there's quite a small, lucky minority of men whose metabolism lets them add muscle relatively easily just through training. These guys are different story altogether---they move as fluidly and easily as anyone else, and their muscle development isn't out of kilter with the rest of their anatomy.

Unfortunately, by all accounts steroid use is very common among competitive athletes and anabolic drug use is being detected at younger and younger ages. I think I've read something in one of the major newsmagazines about increasing use of anabolic hormones by high school athletes. It seems to be quite widespread and is likely to remain so.

 

[Hand Sword]

Hey Hand Sword-san yes good points here.. and there is often an assumption that smaller folk (of which I am one) are somehow naturally more adept at Aikido than larger guys from the outset.. I am not certain where this stereotype originates from but simply is not true.. I still maintain though that having the "appropriate" muscle / bulk for your frame is of utmost importance in Aikido.. and I am not referring to muscle TONE but rather bulk.. I can only relate my observations anecdotally but those excessively bulky guys.. and it IS mostly guys.. do not have the contact sensitivity to give them the edge in reaction.. I have found I can use this to my own advantage and have realised recently that I am less apprehensive doing any kind of randori with bulky guys than with less bulky guys irrespective of height or natural build simply because I know they react slower to whatever I might try..

But to reply to your point I do not with to deride anyones training and weights I appreciate are an important aspect of many arts even Aikido.. all I am saying is that I do not believe there is merit in bulking up to ANY extent if an artist is serious about maximising the yield from their Aikido and their Aikido training..

Thank you again

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Well, I don't know what you're trying to argue against me, but, If your point is about bulky muscles, and maximizing Aikido, I think you are agreeing with me. I already said Bulk will inhibit. However, as with everything else, enough focused training can remedy that. Eventually, big, bulky, people can do Aikido. It might take longer to get, but, they will get it, if dedicated. Just like everything else in life. It takes time and focus for everyone.

 

[Jenna]

Jenna---something you said there rang a bell. I have done enough heavy lifting over the past ten years to know that a lot of people you meet in the gym with extreme muscle development got that way because of steroids, growth hormone and other chemical aids. It's very hard for women to get bulky in their upper bodies because they have a much smaller number of fast-twitch muscles above the waist than men do; but it's also hard for most men, even big `endomorph' types, to get really hyperdeveloped musculature. The body fights you tooth and nail on the point. There's a very small number of women and a somewhat larger number of men use steroids to overrided the body's reluctance to add muscle tissue, but unlike normal muscle growth in adolescence, the growth that comes from steroids really is out of proportion to their bodies---literally: their skeletal frame and connective tissue do not bulk up to match the muscle growth that they anabolic cocktails give them. So a really bulky guy has a lot of muscles which are unsupported by the anatomical infrastructure they would need to be able to use those muscles in the kind of functionally effective way that martial arts demand. Pro bodybuilders are always having to undergo serious surgery to fix or reattach torn muscles/tendons/ligaments, for just this reason---they need much stronger attachments than they have to do what they think they should be able to do with rows or presses. Dorian Yates, the former Mr. Olympia, is just the most recent example I can think of among elite bodybuilders who had to retire when they finally tore too much muscle for anyone to really fix, but the same thing happens at much less exalted levels of weight training.

So it couldbe that some of the really bulky guys you've dealt with in Aikido have just this problem---big, steroidally-grown muscles, but not nearly enough of the other anatomical supports necessary to actually apply that strength. Imagine a very big heavy puppet controlled by very thin, not very strong cords, trying to do something that requires efficient movement, fluidity and good balance...

It's one possibility, at least, for some of the cases you've referred to.

Hey mister exile
Yes I do agree with what you are saying.. To my mind I think there is a natural equilibrium point (specific to their artI mean) that everyone has. Fall below that point and I think muscle tone is insufficient.. I mean even Aikidoka have to have sufficient grip to be of any use practically.. But likewise I think that once the practitioner continues developing muscle mass beyond their natural point.. and yeah I know this is completely anecdotal but bear with me.. I think once the practitioner exceeds the natural muscle mass for their art then their performance moves in retrograde.. I think this is true for a great many arts which utilise finesse over power.. Again I am not being disparaging or anyone or their methods but simply stating my observations with regard to Aikido..

Thank you again for your thoughts!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[Jenna]

Well, I don't know what you're trying to argue against me, but, If your point is about bulky muscles, and maximizing Aikido, I think you are agreeing with me. I already said Bulk will inhibit. However, as with everything else, enough focused training can remedy that. Eventually, big, bulky, people can do Aikido. It might take longer to get, but, they will get it, if dedicated. Just like everything else in life. It takes time and focus for everyone.

Hey Hand Sword-san
No I aint arguing I promise I am just trying to pick up on your points.. Apologies if I appear otherwise
Jenna

 

[searcher]

I have not read all of the posts so please forgive me if this has been brought up and I missed it. As the other personal trainers and group fitness instructors on here will agree with me on my point, I hope. it is extremely difficult for any individual to put on a large ammount of muscle mass without any "chemical enhancement". I am not saying that you will not/can not put on muscle mass, but at the levels that I think you are talking about it is rather unlikely. There are always exceptions to this, but for the most part this holds true. An increase in strength can always be an asset, but if an individual starts to rely on it over their technique I see how this could be a detriment. These are all my own observations and opinions.

 

[exile]

I have not read all of the posts so please forgive me if this has been brought up and I missed it. As the other personal trainers and group fitness instructors on here will agree with me on my point, I hope. it is extremely difficult for any individual to put on a large ammount of muscle mass without any "chemical enhancement". I am not saying that you will not/can not put on muscle mass, but at the levels that I think you are talking about it is rather unlikely. There are always exceptions to this, but for the most part this holds true. An increase in strength can always be an asset, but if an individual starts to rely on it over their technique I see how this could be a detriment. These are all my own observations and opinions.

Hi searcher---this is exactly what I was suggesting in my previous post on this thread; it occured to me that the exaggerated bulk of steroidal ehnancement accompanied by the failure of steroids to increase the skeletal frame or, even more important, the controlling connective tissues---ligaments and tendons---would predictably result in very muscular guys who were capable of only awkward movement, given that they didn't possess the means to move all that muscle fluidly. There's another point that arose in a thread Shesulsa started in a different forum about an article suggesting a causal relation between prolonged exposure to artificially boosted testosterone levels on the one hand and serious neurological damage on the other. Given that bodybuilders and others who bulk up with test typically use various steroids in the mix as well, and that steroids are really a kind of synthetic testosterone, it's probably the case that a lot of these guys are experiencing serious neuromuscular damage as a result of their chemical intake over several years. Put all the factors together and you wonder how guys who fit that profile can even walk, let alone perform an MA that centers on fluid motion, equilibrium and sensitivity of response.

 

[exile]

Hey mister exile
To my mind I think there is a natural equilibrium point (specific to their artI mean) that everyone has. Fall below that point and I think muscle tone is insufficient.. I mean even Aikidoka have to have sufficient grip to be of any use practically.. But likewise I think that once the practitioner continues developing muscle mass beyond their natural point

The thing is, though, you really have to wonder how someone actually gets to develop muscle mass past that point. Most people, regardless of body type, have to fight for every ounce of new lean tissue; you can go for weeks or months on frustrating plateaus before you start seeing new results of your weight training---and yet, you often see guys in serious iron gyms who have way too much muscle for their skeletal frames... something's wrong there, you can see it right away. That's always a warning bell for me.

Apart from the inability to control `synthetically grown' muscle, there's that article Shesulsa posted a link to which shows a connection between artificially induced high testosterone levels and neural damage. There are so many negatives attached to artificial bulk of the kind you're referring to that it's not surprising these guys' Aikido abilities are impaired...

 

[Jenna]

The thing is, though, you really have to wonder how someone actually gets to develop muscle mass past that point. Most people, regardless of body type, have to fight for every ounce of new lean tissue; you can go for weeks or months on frustrating plateaus before you start seeing new results of your weight training---and yet, you often see guys in serious iron gyms who have way too much muscle for their skeletal frames... something's wrong there, you can see it right away. That's always a warning bell for me.

Apart from the inability to control `synthetically grown' muscle, there's that article Shesulsa posted a link to which shows a connection between artificially induced high testosterone levels and neural damage. There are so many negatives attached to artificial bulk of the kind you're referring to that it's not surprising these guys' Aikido abilities are impaired...

Hey mister exile
I'm enjoying your scientific take on what I and it seems others also have observed. Thank you for this!
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[exile]

Hey mister exile
I'm enjoying your scientific take on what I and it seems others also have observed. Thank you for this!
Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Thanks much, Jenna! The problem is big and I think getting bigger---especially among university and even high school athletes. What surprises me a bit is that someone who bulks up chemically this way would drawn to a MA like Aikido, which emphasizes fluidity of movement rather than sheer strength. The fit doesn't seem right...

 

[Jenna]

Thanks much, Jenna! The problem is big and I think getting bigger---especially among university and even high school athletes. What surprises me a bit is that someone who bulks up chemically this way would drawn to a MA like Aikido, which emphasizes fluidity of movement rather than sheer strength. The fit doesn't seem right...

Hey mister exile
Yes I agree regarding the scale of this issue.. I also agree with your point about seemingly "inappropriate" choices of arts.. however I think folk simply do not stop to think what is appropriate mass for their chosen activity.. And I think that is pretty much endemic to our society now whereby most of us to varying extents follow the stereotypical bodily images that we model ourselves on or desire to be like.. I mean the lithe and toned women and the broad shouldered rippling guys.. not that I am averse to a little rippling every once in a while truth be told.. ha!

Seriously though.. I think this is a particular issue within my own art Aikido but I do not believe overdevelopment (leading to poor art dynamics) is confined to just my art. I have seen the same what I would class as OVERdevelopment in a friends Hung Gar Kung Fu class where the belief among the guys I have got to know is that gains in muscle mass are proportionate to gains in power for effective sparring.

I think not only is it a mistake to equate muscle mass to USEABLE power.. but I also think that arts like HGKF and others are not solely about power anyway.. in fact I think very few arts are solely about power.. in my experience all arts are a subtle balance of power and finesse.. with overdevelopment being at the expense of finesse and not automatically providing any gains in power either!

What do you think??

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[exile]

Hey mister exile
Yes I agree regarding the scale of this issue.. I also agree with your point about seemingly "inappropriate" choices of arts.. however I think folk simply do not stop to think what is appropriate mass for their chosen activity.. And I think that is pretty much endemic to our society now whereby most of us to varying extents follow the stereotypical bodily images that we model ourselves on or desire to be like.. I mean the lithe and toned women and the broad shouldered rippling guys.. not that I am averse to a little rippling every once in a while truth be told.. ha!

Hi Jenna---of course not!---who would be?! ;-) But it's true that for many people, particularly those involved in seriously athletic activities, there is a `more is better' view of the matter which comes (I suspect) from overrating the role of sheer strength in those activities. All other things being equal, of course, strength is a major plus. But things are almost never equal. I've read things by old-school Yosemite climbers---the people who did solo hardest-route pitches up El Capitan and Half-Dome in the sixties and seventies---talking about how a lot of new climbers in the Valley these days are incredibly muscular from pumping iron (and who knows what else) whose grasp of rock-climbing technique is marginal. Nothing at all wrong with strength, but in balance with technique, these people are saying, and that's the heart of the problem.

Seriously though.. I think this is a particular issue within my own art Aikido but I do not believe overdevelopment (leading to poor art dynamics) is confined to just my art. I have seen the same what I would class as OVERdevelopment in a friends Hung Gar Kung Fu class where the belief among the guys I have got to know is that gains in muscle mass are proportionate to gains in power for effective sparring.

A chap who trains in the same place I do, who's into MMA and kickboxing, has done some of the hardest punching I've ever seen, but he's not what I would call muscular---not flabby by any means; lean, tough and wiry is more like it, but he does not have massive biceps or huge deltoids or pecs or... but what he does have is the ability to quickly prerotate his hips right before he punches and the convert the followup rotation into tremendous torque that carries through to his shoulders and punching arm. The key point is quick. He's a semipro fighter in Columbus and is making a serious name for himself here, based on the impact he can generate by rapid repeated use of this technique to produce front-hand jabs that are way more powerful than anyone expects a jab to be. If he didn't have good musculature he couldn't deliver that kind of force, but it's far from the source of that force. I think this kind of thing illustrated the general point you're making about people who mistakenly assume that the only root to power is adding muscle (by whatever means)...

I think not only is it a mistake to equate muscle mass to USEABLE power.. but I also think that arts like HGKF and others are not solely about power anyway.. in fact I think very few arts are solely about power.. in my experience all arts are a subtle balance of power and finesse.. with overdevelopment being at the expense of finesse and not automatically providing any gains in power either!

What do you think??

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

In a word, yes, I believe you're quite right. Weight training for muscle mass is very demanding and if you're doing it correctly. It definitely takes it out of you for other activities as well (when I'm doing heavy weights consistently, during the first two or three days after an hour-long lifting session I don't have the energy to do very much of anything else that demands a lot of exertion). I try to space my workouts far apart---a month between workouts for the same muscle groups---to give myself a chance to recover fully. But anyone who devotes a huge amount of time to weight training is probably depleting resources they need for all the other training that MAs involve. Recovery rates go way up when steroids and test enter the picture.. but the destructive effects just are not worth the strength gained. So an allocation of some time to strength training, some time to work on flow and technique, to relaxation, stretching and so on is the best bet.

There's another thing that's struck me, which is that it's hard to gain strength in the right places for martial art applications by lifting weights. Just increasing the size of your thigh muscles is not going to help you that much in generating power or height range for TKD kicks, for example. I don't really understand precisely how the muscle groups involved interact in a good-form, mid-height rear leg side kick, but increases in leg muscle mass are not necessarily going to allow you to do that kick in slow motion, in perfect balance, and freeze it for twenty seconds. The only way to learn to do that is to practice it. Working with ankle weights can help, but working the leg press machine isn't going to convert directly into the ability to carry out that move. You have to practice the technique itself to get better at the technique, and that's the point, I think: the best strength training for MAs is practicing your MA---reasonble strength training for all-around health, bone density and so on is good too, but for most people that won't yield huge muscles. There'll be some increasein size, but no one will mistake you for a pro body builder...

The way I think of it is, cut is good, bulky almost certainly isn't...just my take on it, of course; but it's the approach that I've found works best for me.

 

[Jenna]

Hi Jenna---of course not!---who would be?! ;-) But it's true that for many people, particularly those involved in seriously athletic activities, there is a `more is better' view of the matter which comes (I suspect) from overrating the role of sheer strength in those activities. All other things being equal, of course, strength is a major plus. But things are almost never equal. I've read things by old-school Yosemite climbers---the people who did solo hardest-route pitches up El Capitan and Half-Dome in the sixties and seventies---talking about how a lot of new climbers in the Valley these days are incredibly muscular from pumping iron (and who knows what else) whose grasp of rock-climbing technique is marginal. Nothing at all wrong with strength, but in balance with technique, these people are saying, and that's the heart of the problem.



A chap who trains in the same place I do, who's into MMA and kickboxing, has done some of the hardest punching I've ever seen, but he's not what I would call muscular---not flabby by any means; lean, tough and wiry is more like it, but he does not have massive biceps or huge deltoids or pecs or... but what he does have is the ability to quickly prerotate his hips right before he punches and the convert the followup rotation into tremendous torque that carries through to his shoulders and punching arm. The key point is quick. He's a semipro fighter in Columbus and is making a serious name for himself here, based on the impact he can generate by rapid repeated use of this technique to produce front-hand jabs that are way more powerful than anyone expects a jab to be. If he didn't have good musculature he couldn't deliver that kind of force, but it's far from the source of that force. I think this kind of thing illustrated the general point you're making about people who mistakenly assume that the only root to power is adding muscle (by whatever means)...



In a word, yes, I believe you're quite right. Weight training for muscle mass is very demanding and if you're doing it correctly. It definitely takes it out of you for other activities as well (when I'm doing heavy weights consistently, during the first two or three days after an hour-long lifting session I don't have the energy to do very much of anything else that demands a lot of exertion). I try to space my workouts far apart---a month between workouts for the same muscle groups---to give myself a chance to recover fully. But anyone who devotes a huge amount of time to weight training is probably depleting resources they need for all the other training that MAs involve. Recovery rates go way up when steroids and test enter the picture.. but the destructive effects just are not worth the strength gained. So an allocation of some time to strength training, some time to work on flow and technique, to relaxation, stretching and so on is the best bet.

There's another thing that's struck me, which is that it's hard to gain strength in the right places for martial art applications by lifting weights. Just increasing the size of your thigh muscles is not going to help you that much in generating power or height range for TKD kicks, for example. I don't really understand precisely how the muscle groups involved interact in a good-form, mid-height rear leg side kick, but increases in leg muscle mass are not necessarily going to allow you to do that kick in slow motion, in perfect balance, and freeze it for twenty seconds. The only way to learn to do that is to practice it. Working with ankle weights can help, but working the leg press machine isn't going to convert directly into the ability to carry out that move. You have to practice the technique itself to get better at the technique, and that's the point, I think: the best strength training for MAs is practicing your MA---reasonble strength training for all-around health, bone density and so on is good too, but for most people that won't yield huge muscles. There'll be some increasein size, but no one will mistake you for a pro body builder...

The way I think of it is, cut is good, bulky almost certainly isn't...just my take on it, of course; but it's the approach that I've found works best for me.

Hey mister exile
wow thank you for all this.. your writing is really interesting to read and I find myself agreeing with it all.. I completely understand what you mean about gaining strength "in the right places" in other words in the right places for our arts.. I know when I trained kung fu sifu was keen on plyometric exercises such as the "clap push ups" and I think regimes built around these types of activities are much more conducive to the ideal physical martial arts state (if such a thing exists) than weights per se.. but again I am far from expert and am simply going by opinion.. one thing I did find interesting recently though.. and allow me a little digression.. was an article in GQ magazine.. yeah yeah I know.. I work in a garage and that is not the worst I have seen! .. but the article was on Jason Statham (the guy from The Transporter and other movies) but his exercise regime was phenomenal.. his activites were what I would class as "real world" training for what he was gonna do in his job.. and I reckon hes got a pretty sweeeeeet physique not too large but developed for efficiency in his work.. and he has achieved it without bulking through weights.. anyways.. if you can get the article online perhaps you might find it interesting too..

Thank you again for your input my friend.. I appreciate it!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

 

[exile]

Hey mister exile
wow thank you for all this.. your writing is really interesting to read and I find myself agreeing with it all..

Jenna, thanks for the kind words. :asian:

I completely understand what you mean about gaining strength "in the right places" in other words in the right places for our arts.. I know when I trained kung fu sifu was keen on plyometric exercises such as the "clap push ups" and I think regimes built around these types of activities are much more conducive to the ideal physical martial arts state (if such a thing exists) than weights per se.. but again I am far from expert and am simply going by opinion.. one thing I did find interesting recently though.. and allow me a little digression.. was an article in GQ magazine.. yeah yeah I know.. I work in a garage and that is not the worst I have seen! .. but the article was on Jason Statham (the guy from The Transporter and other movies) but his exercise regime was phenomenal.. his activites were what I would class as "real world" training for what he was gonna do in his job.. and I reckon hes got a pretty sweeeeeet physique not too large but developed for efficiency in his work.. and he has achieved it without bulking through weights.. anyways.. if you can get the article online perhaps you might find it interesting too...

This sounds like the idea I've read about in various places called `functional strength', which sharp people in the fitness world have been promoting to counter the unhealthy male body image that started coming in a few years ago as kind of the `Y-chromosome' analogue of the impossible tall/big-busted/micro-waisted/endless-legged supermodel icon that women have been bombarded with in advertising for lo these many. The guy's version---massive cannon-ball shoulder, deeply sculpted pectorals and carved abdominals, huge biceps and (again) micro-waist, atop massive legs, and 8% body fat overall---is just as impossible, but under the influence of all this popular-culture imagery, an increasing number of men have been doing hormone supplementation and experimenting with steroids. Guys who try to do it chemical-free find that it can't be done: just as out of several billion women there are maybe a dozen or so that actually look the way supermodels are supposed to look, there are almost no males on the planet who can look like that just by plain vanilla weight training. But what these fitness people were pointing out is that it's possible to get lean, with well-developed muscles and good definition, by doing activities which actually demanded strength for particular applications. Male gymnasts, for example, for a long time have been known to developed really good physiques just from the kind of training that they have to do to excel at gymnastics. Soccer and rugby players develop powerful musculature in their legs just training for their respective sports (the New Zealand All-Blacks rugby team used to train by running in specially contructed giant `sandboxes', filled with about a foot of sand, to develop both terrific wind and tremendous power for their sport). The idea is, you gain the muscle strength you need by training---just as you said---under realistic conditions, but made enough harder during your training that when you actually have to perform, the conditions are easier than what you had been training for, boosting your performance. Everything you say about Jason Statham fits this training concept to a T... for most people, it's probably the most practical and rewarding way to train---I've done a fair amount of pure weight training over the past ten years and while it works well, it's boring. I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of the article on JS---sounds like he's carrying out a consistent functional-strength training program.

Thank you again for your input my friend.. I appreciate it!

Yr most obdt hmble srvt,
Jenna

Likewise, Jenna---and thanks for getting this thread up and running!

 

[MrFunnieman]

exile, if you can't find the GQ article, there was a similar one run in Men's Health. I also thought Statham's exercise philosophy was top notch

 

[exile]

exile, if you can't find the GQ article, there was a similar one run in Men's Health. I also thought Statham's exercise philosophy was top notch

Thanks much for the reference---it might be easier for me to get hold of a copy of M'sH than GQ, and also for your impression of Statham's ex program---sounds like knows exactly how to strength-train for his particular purposes.