Train TMA but fight like kickboxer

[Anarax]

We get about 1 every three months come in telling us a out how he is some sort of knock out merchant on the streets.

And he is generally fairly easily handled by most of the experienced guys.

The standard for being a tough guy in the street isn't very high.

I instantly thought of this "street fighter" that walked into this boxing gym. Video below

 

[JowGaWolf]

I would say that the current generation is also more inclined to recognize an abusive relationship when they see it, and be unwilling to tolerate it. Some martial arts schools really are little more than an abusive relationship. Some people manage to thrive in that scenario. They are usually the kind of person I don’t want to be around. But that is just me. Ones mileage may vary.

This is true too.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This only happens if they have the mentality to push through when things are brutal. Typically we learn this through everyday life, but these days there are a lot of things of comfort that didn't exist when we're kids. We can't even wait without picking up a mobile phone lol.

This, however, isn't just about discomfort. If someone recognizes the inefficiency in this approach (and has a better option for training) they'd be wise to ditch to the better option. So it's not necessarily about stick-to-it-iveness (the word my parents' and grandparents' generation used for this, when I was growing up). Sure, you'd need that ability to get through this (or enough dysfunction to not recognize that it's bad). But that doesn't mean it's a good thing to get through this.

I'm not saying this is what you're doing here - I don't have enough context to see that - but too often I've seen folks suggesting that any hardship is character-building and that therefor quitting during hardship is a flaw. Sometimes quitting during hardship is just the wise decision.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

By the way. An interesting idea I picked up from doing rounds with some fighters on the weekend is the idea of learning to be gentle.

In that in the heat of battle I am still trying to protect and preserve the guy I am basically beating up.

And as far as a spiritual development point of view I think that is an important aspect.

In the middle of this people are showing care for their fellow human being.

This is something touted by a lot of MA, and I honestly fail to see it in some of their training. I'm okay with a style or system that is all about brutality for SD, as long as that's the honest philosophy espoused. If a school or practitioner promotes their art by talking down sport as too brutal (usually referencing MMA fights), then I should see some real talk about (and training toward) being able to be less brutal than that.

And, really, to be less brutal with someone "in the street", you need to outclass them.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Ramsay Dewey was going to fight Master Wong. To separate himself from theoretical arts.

That's a pretty low bar.

Master Wong is the Wimp Lo of online martial arts video producers. Master of My Nuts to Your Fist style.

No offense Master Wong.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ramsay Dewey was going to fight Master Wong. To separate himself from theoretical arts.

Do you mean Master Wong was going to fight Ramsy Dewey to separate himself (master wong) from theoretical arts?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I instantly thought of this "street fighter" that walked into this boxing gym. Video below

That's, it? I would have walked in that gym and showed that guy my skills. I'm talking about the guy in blue by the way, not the coach lol.

But in all seriousness. He couldn't take that first baby body shot to the gut? That reminded me of my "old man tricks" "Come on. Keep those hands up. Keep them up. Protect your head." then punch the person in the gut. ha ha ha.

I don't even know what to think. People must be delusional to walk into a gym where they train fighters and then challenge the guy with the most experience. I can honestly say that I've never had anyone walk in and challenge me or anyone in the school. I'm going to take that as a blessing that my path rarely crosses the the paths of idiots. I guess they think that it's a game. If they want to spar with the coach, then just say so. But don't challenge the guy lol.

 

[drop bear]

Do you mean Master Wong was going to fight Ramsy Dewey to separate himself (master wong) from theoretical arts?

Ramsey dewy had a problem with master Wong teaching what is basically garbage.

 

[Unkogami]

Any generation. If you take someone and don't let them develop skill before testing it - just throw them in and have folks trash them - most will decide they simply can't do that thing. ...

Most people are weak in body and spirit.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ramsey dewy had a problem with master Wong teaching what is basically garbage.

lol youtube drama. I just don't understand it.

 

[Martial D]

Sure but there are also BJJ schools that don't.

No there isn't. How are you gonna bjj without rolling? That's like saying there are karate schools where they don't punch or kick

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No there isn't. How are you gonna bjj without rolling? That's like saying there are karate schools where they don't punch or kick

I've never seen it, but it could be done. Only drills with cooperative partner. It would have all the problems I've mentioned in the past when that is done in other styles.

It seems like it'd be vanishingly rare in BJJ, because of the overall culture, but with the one branch working with remote teaching and ranking, I'd be surprised if someone, somewhere hasn't gone that way. But still, I've never seen/heard of it.

 

[Martial D]

I was looking back to see who said this, “ well sure, our system doesn’t work very well or at all in sport…” but I cant find it anywhere. Who said it and what system was it they were talking about?

It's been a recurring mantra in these discussions here for years. It always comes down to this when the point in the discussion is reached that X style has no tangible evidence of alive effectiveness. Then it's always "yes but MMA is a sport and X style isn't" and what differentiates the sport from non sport? The rules. Always implicative that something in those rules is preventing X style from being that. It's basically a hand wave.

 

[Oily Dragon]

No there isn't. How are you gonna bjj without rolling? That's like saying there are karate schools where they don't punch or kick

There sure are. It's a thing, we discussed it further back.

Throw "BJJ schools that don't spar" into search, you'll find what I mean. And as somebody else said, there's at least a couple high profile places that don't require sparring.

As far as I understand, these places either don't allow white belts to spar, or require some time before they can, or most extreme, sparring is 100% optional.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I've never seen it, but it could be done. Only drills with cooperative partner. It would have all the problems I've mentioned in the past when that is done in other styles.

It seems like it'd be vanishingly rare in BJJ, because of the overall culture, but with the one branch working with remote teaching and ranking, I'd be surprised if someone, somewhere hasn't gone that way. But still, I've never seen/heard of it.

From my viewpoint, it's actually been becoming more common.

I couldn't google this stuff 20 years ago. I think the BJJ system was ripe for this kind of thing...more students means more $$$. Not everyone wants to spar, they want the "knowledge". Which is what made TMA into a cottage industry. BJJ: "come, we will teach you, and you won't break a sweat!". Cha ching.

bjj schools that dont spar - Google Search

 

[Oily Dragon]

Here we go. I knew I saw this somewhere.

Rigan Machado Designs Jiu-Jitsu System without Sparring for Celebrities

http://www.bjjee.com/articles/rigan-machado-designs-jiu-jitsu-system-without-sparring-for-celebrities/ [QUOTE]In the April 2015 issue of Jiu Jitsu magazine , Coral belt and BJJ legend Rigan Machado talks about the special program that he has designed by his celibrety students:

forums.sherdog.com

 

[Martial D]

Here we go. I knew I saw this somewhere.

Rigan Machado Designs Jiu-Jitsu System without Sparring for Celebrities

http://www.bjjee.com/articles/rigan-machado-designs-jiu-jitsu-system-without-sparring-for-celebrities/ [QUOTE]In the April 2015 issue of Jiu Jitsu magazine , Coral belt and BJJ legend Rigan Machado talks about the special program that he has designed by his celibrety students:

forums.sherdog.com

That's such a stretch one off lol. What would you even do in such a class? Flop around in your back alone like a turtle? You sure wouldn't learn ju jitsu that way.

But I guess the same is true of any style. If you aren't doing live resistance you aren't really learning anything.

 

[Oily Dragon]

That's such a stretch one off lol. What would you even do in such a class? Flop around in your back alone like a turtle? You sure wouldn't learn ju jitsu that way.

But I guess the same is true of any style. If you aren't doing live resistance you aren't really learning anything.

I totally agree. There's video or something on YouTube of that school. I guess they literally just show the holds etc. A lot of famous people train there. It's Machado so he has a whole lineage of people who obviously spar and compete (well), but there must be a market for this now, which my much younger self would never have imagined but my older wiser self saw coming.

When you think about it every art started to degrade in this way. Commercialization.

As far as all the other mentions online about white belts being held back a month, 3 months, etc that also sounds familiar to TMA. Lots of places leave sparring for later on (and not without reason in some cases, safety matters).

But resistance comes first, even before sparring, and keeping resistance out of the hands of new students is a great way to keep students who don't want hard training, but also a great way to lose me.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Here we go. I knew I saw this somewhere.

Rigan Machado Designs Jiu-Jitsu System without Sparring for Celebrities

http://www.bjjee.com/articles/rigan-machado-designs-jiu-jitsu-system-without-sparring-for-celebrities/ [QUOTE]In the April 2015 issue of Jiu Jitsu magazine , Coral belt and BJJ legend Rigan Machado talks about the special program that he has designed by his celibrety students:

forums.sherdog.com

Yeah, I mentioned that before. It's a program for wealthy celebrities who are paying big bucks for the private lessons. If you go to the regular classes at Rigan Machado's school, you'll find that sparring is required for regular folks who want to advance in rank.

 

[Martial D]

I totally agree. There's video or something on YouTube of that school. I guess they literally just show the holds etc. A lot of famous people train there. It's Machado so he has a whole lineage of people who obviously spar and compete (well), but there must be a market for this now, which my much younger self would never have imagined but my older wiser self saw coming.

When you think about it every art started to degrade in this way. Commercialization.

As far as all the other mentions online about white belts being held back a month, 3 months, etc that also sounds familiar to TMA. Lots of places leave sparring for later on (and not without reason in some cases, safety matters).

But resistance comes first, even before sparring, and keeping resistance out of the hands of new students is a great way to keep students who don't want hard training, but also a great way to lose me.

But. BJJ pretty much IS the sparring/rolling. There's literally nothing in BJJ that you can do without a partner.

I mean..I guess I could see over time it being aikido-ized into something where it's completely cooperative but would it still be BJJ even?