Train TMA but fight like kickboxer

[Buka]

When people asked me, "Do you still do that chop chop stuff?" I truly don't know how to answer it.

I usually answer with...."yup."

 

[Oily Dragon]

When people asked me, "Do you still do that chop chop stuff?" I truly don't know how to answer it.

The best way is to inform them that it's pronounced "jop", as in "jop hop".

Jop means to bring together. Jop sticks...

 

[drop bear]

I think you’ve missed the point.

The point is that street fights are this magical apex of fighting while also requiring less effort to prepare for and engage in.

It tastes great and is less filling. Which is why there are so many more street fighters than ring fighters.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

It really depends on how good you ACTUALLY are fighting on the street, how much experience you actually have, and how complimentary the skills you have are to the ring. To be clear, “you” is the generic you. Not you in particular.

I’m not that good, even in the generic sense. That should settle it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The point is that street fights are this magical apex of fighting while also requiring less effort to prepare for and engage in.

It tastes great and is less filling. Which is why there are so many more street fighters than ring fighters.

There is nothing magical about it. There certainly anything appealing or redeeming about it either.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Not as easily. People in the ring can generally fight. Which is a hugely different scenario.

People in the ring can fight in that context, it doesn’t mean all that much in the street. Anyone can get hurt, we are very fragile creatures, even the pro fighters.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The point is that street fights are this magical apex of fighting

Nothing magical about street fights. I don't think anyone who has actually been in a street fight thinks this.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When people asked me, "Do you still do that chop chop stuff?" I truly don't know how to answer it.

Yeah I don't like when people say stuff like that. There are a lot of way I can might interpret that question.

 

[drop bear]

People in the ring can fight in that context, it doesn’t mean all that much in the street. Anyone can get hurt, we are very fragile creatures, even the pro fighters.

Which context doesn't mean much?

So say a boxer could hit you really hard or a wrestler could throw you and not let you up.

These are things that would mean quite a lot in the street. Especially considering just those two things are probably 90% of street fighting.

 

[drop bear]

Nothing magical about street fights. I don't think anyone who has actually been in a street fight thinks this.

So many street fighters think this. It is basically a trope in MMA gyms.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I usually answer with...."yup."

I think the next time someone asks me, I'll tell them that I do karate, and maybe the next time they seem they will ask me if I'm still doing kung fu lol.

So many street fighters think this. It is basically a trope in MMA gyms.

I don't know if "Street fighters" in the U.S. is a big issue. To me any organized fight with rules is not a street fight. Street fight to me is 2 people get into an argument, disagreement, or conflict that leads to physical violence. These are people who don't care what MMA, combat sport, TMA, or any other fighting system think. The only point they are going make is that they will dominate you that day.

People who organize fights on the streets are recreational fighters. These are the people who host the backyard fights. There recognition isn't world fame, they want "Street Credit". Their fights have no requirements. If someone wants to fight then they "Step in the ring." The few people that I've known to do this don't make any claims that they can beat someone in MMA. These are definitely not people who have any interest in going to an MMA Gym or TMA school to prove their point.

When I talk about street fights, those are not the guys who I'm thinking about. They are not same group I'm thinking about when I say "Street Fear" vs "Competitive Fear" they are not the same guys I had to deal with in my past.

I could be wrong or it may be a regional thing here, but I don't think many MMA gyms in the US have issues about street fighters / recreational fighters

 

[Gerry Seymour]

People in the ring can fight in that context, it doesn’t mean all that much in the street. Anyone can get hurt, we are very fragile creatures, even the pro fighters.

If we're talking about a less-restrictive ruleset, it does mean quite a bit in the street. There's a difference between being able to fight and not being able to be injured. Someone who can fight, can fight. If they can fight in a restrictive ruleset, most of that will transfer to an unrestricted fight, and the closer that ruleset is to the unrestricted fight they end up in, the more their experience transfers.

Does this mean someone who does well in MMA is invincible in the street? Of course not. Does it mean they're going to have better percentages than someone without that experience? Definitely.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The point is that street fights are this magical apex of fighting while also requiring less effort to prepare for and engage in.

It tastes great and is less filling. Which is why there are so many more street fighters than ring fighters.

There is nothing magical about it. There certainly anything appealing or redeeming about it either.

Nothing magical about street fights. I don't think anyone who has actually been in a street fight thinks this.

I can't tell from your responses if you actually got the point drop bear was making or not, so I figure I'll clarify for anyone who might be confused by his writing style.

Drop bear isn't actually suggesting that there is anything magical about street fights. He's sarcastically pointing out what he sees as the contradiction between the following points which are often made by the same people:

1. Street fights are inherently more dangerous/intense/scary/chaotic/etc, than combat sports
2. Someone who is training for street fights doesn't have to put in the same degree of intense training/physical conditioning/hard sparring/etc. that combat sports athletes do.

His point is that if you say you are training for "the street" and "the street" is really that much more dangerous than the ring or the cage, then you should be training harder than a competitive boxer or MMA competitor, not less.


My view is slightly different. I wouldn't say that a given fight in "the street" is necessarily rougher than a fight in the ring or the cage. I would say that it's more random. Imagine that you decided to sign up for a "martial arts competition", but you didn't find out until the match began whether you were in the white belt division of a point karate tournament, an amateur boxing match, a high school wrestling meet, a forms competition, a professional Lethwei bout, a Dog Brothers full-contact stick fight, or a title fight against the UFC heavyweight champion. Statistically speaking, you're more likely to end up somewhere at the easier end of the spectrum, but there's always the chance of landing in a situation you are completely unprepared to handle.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I can't tell from your responses if you actually got the point drop bear was making or not, so I figure I'll clarify for anyone who might be confused by his writing style.

Drop bear isn't actually suggesting that there is anything magical about street fights. He's sarcastically pointing out what he sees as the contradiction between the following points which are often made by the same people:

1. Street fights are inherently more dangerous/intense/scary/chaotic/etc, than combat sports
2. Someone who is training for street fights doesn't have to put in the same degree of intense training/physical conditioning/hard sparring/etc. that combat sports athletes do.

His point is that if you say you are training for "the street" and "the street" is really that much more dangerous than the ring or the cage, then you should be training harder than a competitive boxer or MMA competitor, not less.


My view is slightly different. I wouldn't say that a given fight in "the street" is necessarily rougher than a fight in the ring or the cage. I would say that it's more random. Imagine that you decided to sign up for a "martial arts competition", but you didn't find out until the match began whether you were in the white belt division of a point karate tournament, an amateur boxing match, a high school wrestling meet, a forms competition, a professional Lethwei bout, a Dog Brothers full-contact stick fight, or a title fight against the UFC heavyweight champion. Statistically speaking, you're more likely to end up somewhere at the easier end of the spectrum, but there's always the chance of landing in a situation you are completely unprepared to handle.

As usual, very well put, Tony.

 

[Steve]

My view is slightly different. I wouldn't say that a given fight in "the street" is necessarily rougher than a fight in the ring or the cage. I would say that it's more random. Imagine that you decided to sign up for a "martial arts competition", but you didn't find out until the match began whether you were in the white belt division of a point karate tournament, an amateur boxing match, a high school wrestling meet, a forms competition, a professional Lethwei bout, a Dog Brothers full-contact stick fight, or a title fight against the UFC heavyweight champion. Statistically speaking, you're more likely to end up somewhere at the easier end of the spectrum, but there's always the chance of landing in a situation you are completely unprepared to handle.

This is the heart of the analogy I shared earlier. Add a spinning wheel of consequences that ranges from a few bruises to losing your wallet to death, and most self defense training stops making much sense.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In this case, success is the different context… which means if you get DQ’d that’s a fail.

Of course your street fight experience can be transferred into ring/mat. The sport/competition time frame may be between age 20 - 40. After 40, usually people don't compete any more. The experience can then be carried over into street fight.

I can't tell from your responses if you actually got the point drop bear was making or not, so I figure I'll clarify for anyone who might be confused by his writing style.

Drop bear isn't actually suggesting that there is anything magical about street fights. He's sarcastically pointing out what he sees as the contradiction between the following points which are often made by the same people:

1. Street fights are inherently more dangerous/intense/scary/chaotic/etc, than combat sports
2. Someone who is training for street fights doesn't have to put in the same degree of intense training/physical conditioning/hard sparring/etc. that combat sports athletes do.

His point is that if you say you are training for "the street" and "the street" is really that much more dangerous than the ring or the cage, then you should be training harder than a competitive boxer or MMA competitor, not less.


My view is slightly different. I wouldn't say that a given fight in "the street" is necessarily rougher than a fight in the ring or the cage. I would say that it's more random. Imagine that you decided to sign up for a "martial arts competition", but you didn't find out until the match began whether you were in the white belt division of a point karate tournament, an amateur boxing match, a high school wrestling meet, a forms competition, a professional Lethwei bout, a Dog Brothers full-contact stick fight, or a title fight against the UFC heavyweight champion. Statistically speaking, you're more likely to end up somewhere at the easier end of the spectrum, but there's always the chance of landing in a situation you are completely unprepared to handle.

I get it. What I mean is that there is no way to be totally prepared to be attacked on the street and I’m not talking about an ego trip fight, I’m talking about being robbed at knife point, getting stabbed in the face and ribs, or attacked by multiple people. All three have happened to me. Anyone at all that thinks they are ready for that because of mma or TMA or whatever is totally full of it. If they haven’t been stabbed, or had bullets zip past their face and hit your friend, then you don’t know what that is at all. All the training in the world goes out the window when your friend is getting his head stomped and you can’t help because you are held at gun point. There is no preparation for that. Let that settle in for you guys that think you are so tough in the ring. It wouldnt mean much in the street fights that I saw growing up.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

This is the heart of the analogy I shared earlier. Add a spinning wheel of consequences that ranges from a few bruises to losing your wallet to death, and most self defense training stops making much sense.

That’s my point. You cant train for street fights. It just happens and sometimes you don’t know it till it’s too late to get out of it. Thankfully hasn’t happened to me since I left the city many years ago.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If we're talking about a less-restrictive ruleset, it does mean quite a bit in the street. There's a difference between being able to fight and not being able to be injured. Someone who can fight, can fight. If they can fight in a restrictive ruleset, most of that will transfer to an unrestricted fight, and the closer that ruleset is to the unrestricted fight they end up in, the more their experience transfers.

Does this mean someone who does well in MMA is invincible in the street? Of course not. Does it mean they're going to have better percentages than someone without that experience? Definitely.

I disagree, its never fair, there are weapons, its chaotic. In fact, I think that tough guy “ I’ve got this” attitude is likely to escalate the situation. I can give a somewhat recent example. A close friend trained kickboxing at fairtex in the Bay Area. A person side swiped my friends Muay Thai teachers car right out front of the gym. The teacher ran outside to confront the offender. The offenders car got stuck in the traffic, so the kickboxing teacher was able to approach and say WTF? You just hit my car! The offender then saw that a muscle built guy was about to pull him out of his car, so he shot and killed the teacher on the spot. The teacher was well trained and tough. Sad but true story, the street is not the ring, treating one like the other can get you dead.

 

[drop bear]

don't know if "Street fighters" in the U.S. is a big issue. To me any organized fight with rules is not a street fight. Street fight to me is 2 people get into an argument, disagreement, or conflict that leads to physical violence. These are people who don't care what MMA, combat sport, TMA, or any other fighting system think. The only point they are going make is that they will dominate you that day.

People who organize fights on the streets are recreational fighters. These are the people who host the backyard fights. There recognition isn't world fame, they want "Street Credit". Their fights have no requirements. If someone wants to fight then they "Step in the ring." The few people that I've known to do this don't make any claims that they can beat someone in MMA. These are definitely not people who have any interest in going to an MMA Gym or TMA school to prove their point.

When I talk about street fights, those are not the guys who I'm thinking about. They are not same group I'm thinking about when I say "Street Fear" vs "Competitive Fear" they are not the same guys I had to deal with in my past.

I could be wrong or it may be a regional thing here, but I don't think many MMA gyms in the US have issues about street fighters / recreational fighters

We get about 1 every three months come in telling us a out how he is some sort of knock out merchant on the streets.

And he is generally fairly easily handled by most of the experienced guys.

The standard for being a tough guy in the street isn't very high.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

We get about 1 every three months come in telling us a out how he is some sort of knock out merchant on the streets.

And he is generally fairly easily handled by most of the experienced guys.

The standard for being a tough guy in the street isn't very high.

I totally agree with you. They are not the same thing. I get similar folks. That doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous in their own element. Which is exactly my point. Just because you are ufc champ doesn’t mean that a well placed brick to the back of the head won’t end you in one second flat. Same as just because you can knock someone out with sucker punches doesn’t mean you can rock and roll in the ring. I think we finally agree on something. Unless I’m wrong yet again?