Towards a Minimum Hapkido Standard

[American HKD]

"I'm not interested in helping that person because I want to teach the Art not a few techniques to someone".

I think we may have just hit on the real crux of the problem. Just what is "The Art" and is the art the same for all. I've always had a very difficult time understanding peoples versions of the art and just how did it become an art in the first place? Did Choi or Ji sit down and say........hmmmm I think I'll start an art form!! Extremely doubtful, they started a martial discipline, which only had one purpose and that was to physically stop another human being from inflicting harm on their person and so it was handed down. Through the constant training aspect, a person's technical prowess should become well honed and they will look better at what their doing then a newer counterpart. Is this the "art" part of the equation? Or is the art all the extraneous elements that people have piggybacked on top of the physical aspects to elongate training times and fill the coffers? Is the "art" a constant companion when someone is in the throws of a real incounter? Is the art subjective to possibly undermining the physicality of the discipline? So many questions, but inquisitive minds want to know.

Bruce

The "Art" is nothing more than the continuation of our tradtional as you already know!

 

[iron_ox]

Glad to do it to, but in your book (and for sure in Kevin's book) I am apparently a fraud.

Hey, I NEVER CALLED YOU A FRAUD, BUT YOU SEEM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT LABEL YOURSELF.

Most of you are happy to have GM Kimm's Hap Ki Do Bible on your shelf;(Let's exaggerate, shall we...) but, if lineage alone is the qualifying factor of being Hap Ki Do, the author of the best book on your art can not even be recognized by you.

Excuse me, but the author of any work need not be a definative expert in that field - as long as the sources are documented.

Does this not make you think at least a little bit about the problem with your and Kevin's take on this? The only problem is the continuing effort to make Hapkido generic.


It would be the easiest thing in the world for me to just say the hell with even discussing this, but I believe that this would let you and Kevin get away with doing even more damage Hap Ki Do than already has been afflicted on the art.

Here I take great umbrigde to this comment. No one else seems to think that talking about a list of traceble lineage back to Choi/Ji is doing damage - except YOU - maybe because you stand to lose money, prestige - who knows and WHO CARES - but you will not make a statement like that about me pal when your lineage in Hapkido is SO shaky! No one here, including ME has taken a direct hit at you. How about the damages done by constantly writing of the notion that "you are trying to keep us apart..."? Frankly, it seems the only poeople a list worries are those who do no have lineage with Choi/Ji - but how funny is it that over and over, I for one have said that people should train and do whatever they want - have fun, but if it has no connection to Choi/Ji, it ain't Hapkido.

Yes, be proud of your lineage, but that does not make you an authority on who teaches Hap Ki Do.

Who said we were - take a breath and think BEFORE you type.

What is the REAL agenda you and Kevin have??? Can't speak for Stuart, but my AGENDA (Man, you are so overdramatic.) is maybe to let people have an original view of Hapkido - I could care less if that flys in the face of many of you that call what you do Hapkido.

It surely is not promoting Hap Ki Do. ? Seems to me that NON Hap Ki Do people like GM Seo, GM Kimm, JR, myself, and other "non continuous" lineage people are doing one hell of a lot more for Hap Ki Do than you folks are.

How the hell do you know what I do or not - get down off you high horse and stop acting like this thread is about you - it isn't. My dojang is by choice in a city with a population of some 5 million people - YOU cannot say the same - just because I don't jump on the internet and tell everyone every single move I make, don't be so self righteous as to think you know me or what I do. I was about to blow my own horn here and make a list, but that brings me right down to your level - and I won't bend that low.

You can't gain Hap Ki Do recognition by working the typewriter regardless of your lineage, (you should know - as hard as you try)

and I suggest you try doing something more positive on the mat (in Jackson or one of my seminars in Canada).
Yeah, come do non-Hapkido right (your assessment)? So, the only way we are "positive" is to pay you - now we can all see you single agenda - to protect the LITTLE turf you have for financial gain - sad really.

You're welcome anytime, and I will NOT harbor ill will, that simply is not my style MY goal is to promote goodwill among those who love Hap Ki Do.

Promote goodwill? By saying that two of us are doing damage when all we do is ask questions - you are such a blowhard. Typical chatroom etiquette, cut too close to home and the argument becomes "it's you guys that are bad, not us - look at them everyone, see how they try to ask questions of us, who chose ourselves as leaders. See how they try and prove that much of what we tell you is false - hey, ignore the man behind the curtain" (love that analogy).

Sorry to all here, moderators included. I hate having to rant - but it is always the self-appointed neighsayers that scream the loudest when the position they try to guard is questioned. Especially when money is invloved. It seems a couple of yoe worry a great deal about "exclusion" when that has never been an issue. I asked about Seo, and seems he has a first dan from Choi, so he could be on a list, as a first dan - I'm not interested in his KSW rank - but for all my asking, that is the only Hapkido rank people can give.

Before you call foul, look in the mirror - the damage you do may be to yourself.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Mike:

".... Through the constant training aspect, a person's technical prowess should become well honed and they will look better at what their doing then a newer counterpart. Is this the "art" part of the equation? ....."

Ironic as it might be, though I view this as the single most important part of the Hapkido arts this is probably the one place where folks will cut the most corners.

By definition an "art" is a skill that develops over time, usually through constant refinement. Most people use the term "martial art" when what they do is nowhere NEAR either "martial" or "art". Some people are doing "martial sport" with all of the competition and trophies that go with it. Some people might be doing a "military sport" or even a "military art." But the idea of continually polishing ones' ability to perform techniques they most probably will never use, for no other reason than because it may, in time, make them better people---- well, folks just aren't buying that. In my kwan I am currently prepping myself to refine my kwan dao skills. Tell me where I am ever going to use this bad puppy in modern America? Its one of the five basic sword architectures of Korea and is part of the Korean Mu-do, but when am I ever going to find myself on the battlefield swinging this bad doggy around?! The same goes for the Ye-do and Ssang Soo Do. Its not like we are going to carry these around. So what are we really playing at?

For me the acid test is whether I would do what I do even if noone else wanted to do it--- no one else was watching---- no one was paying me--- noone had a single use for anything I was doing or would deride me or disenfranchise me for continuing to do it. Would I STILL DO IT? For me the answer is "YES" because in the end the purpose for what I do is to produce a "Bruce" who consistently comes out of the best part of myself. The banging around in the classroom is tantamount to the noisy banging that goes on at the anvil as a blacksmith forms his piece. In the end it is not that I can execute a lethal action, but that the "I" involved can correctly use the power I have accrued to be a better member of the community. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[shesulsa]

~Mod. Note.

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

~Georgia Ketchmark
~MT Moderator

 

[American HKD]

Promote goodwill? By saying that two of us are doing damage when all we do is ask questions - you are such a blowhard. Typical chatroom etiquette, cut too close to home and the argument becomes "it's you guys that are bad, not us - look at them everyone, see how they try to ask questions of us, who chose ourselves as leaders. See how they try and prove that much of what we tell you is false - hey, ignore the man behind the curtain" (love that analogy).

Sorry to all here, moderators included. I hate having to rant - but it is always the self-appointed neighsayers that scream the loudest when the position they try to guard is questioned. Especially when money is invloved. It seems a couple of yoe worry a great deal about "exclusion" when that has never been an issue. I asked about Seo, and seems he has a first dan from Choi, so he could be on a list, as a first dan - I'm not interested in his KSW rank - but for all my asking, that is the only Hapkido rank people can give.

Before you call foul, look in the mirror - the damage you do may be to yourself.

Kevin

It seems to me it's too difficult or painful or whatever in general for martial artists to come together or seperate for that matter, but this puts the icing on the cake.

You wan't to have your own seperate Art and be considered a seperate system make up some history and then get upset when some else says your not part of us. That's ridicculus.

I know guys who have certifcations in several Arts but the distintion is clear and simple. There are many Ryu of Jujutsu but everyone know this ones not that one.

Why Hapkido has to be all things to all people it a little hard to understand maybe its just my short commings.

Lastly I think this is the exact point.

When I started my own Alarm Company and left my former employer even though I learned my craft from them I became thier Competetion. I no longer represent them and now represent my own business affairs. I can't market myself as them anymore because I'm not part of them anymore, that was the past.

Anyway I quit this non-sense and I'm done waisting my time from now on it's just for giggles and laughs.

BTW Rudy I still like you very much and respect your opinion. We just agree to disagree on this subject

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Wow, this thread has been active!

I never got the impression that Kevin or Stuart were excluding anyone. It seems more like clarifying what is being done! I respect GM Timmerman and Master West but I do not consider what they teach Hapkido exactly! There is nothing wrong with doing different things, I am sure what these esteemed Masters are very good at what they do but it is not traditional Hapkido. Traditional Hapkido has two differing styles: Sin Moo Hapkido and Choi, Yong Sul style Hapkido. The important thing is to not be ashamed of what you do and as far as Seo, In Sun, It is evident that he is a GM in Kuk Sool Won not Hapkido. It does not matter how good or bad he is or if he is a good teacher or not! I would love to get on the Matt with GM Timmerman or Master West at some point not because of their Hapki skills but because they seem like good people. I have been on the matt with Kevin and I know he is a great person to train with and he is a nice guy. This should not be about exlcusion but clarification. This is where lineage does have importance. Lineage gives an indication of what types of things you focus on.

Personally I train with GM Lim, Hyun Soo who was a student of Founder Choi. I met him because I wanted to be as close to the Choi lineage as I could but the reason I continue to train is because I believe in his approach to training and his technique is the best I have seen! Bottom line if you like your Master and you like there approach to training it does not matter what it is!

Done rambling! :asian:

www.millersmudo.com

 

[American HKD]

Greetings,

To all esspecially Rudy.

I re-read my posts and I never said exclude anybody, with tracable links to Hapkido and I think almost all Hapkidoin can trace back to Choi or Ji.

That would include not exclude JBL, ISS, many others I probably never heard of at this time.

However I remain fast in the fact that some people seperated from Hapkido at some point of thier own free will and re-designed and started a new tradition and that's a fact you can't change.

If you're now a 9th Dan in Kuk Sool etc. but only have a 3rd in Hapkido that's what you are a 3rd dan in Hapkido and a 9th dan in Kuk Sool. I know Dr Kimm is a 9th in SMH and 8th in Kuk Sool so that's what he is.

Peace to all my MA friends.

 

[Black Belt FC]

Greetings,

To all esspecially Rudy.

I re-read my posts and I never said exclude anybody, with tracable links to Hapkido and I think almost all Hapkidoin can trace back to Choi or Ji.

That would include not exclude JBL, ISS, many others I probably never heard of at this time.

However I remain fast in the fact that some people seperated from Hapkido at some point of thier own free will and re-designed and started a new tradition and that's a fact you can't change.

If you're now a 9th Dan in Kuk Sool etc. but only have a 3rd in Hapkido that's what you are a 3rd dan in Hapkido and a 9th dan in Kuk Sool. I know Dr Kimm is a 9th in SMH and 8th in Kuk Sool so that's what he is.

Peace to all my MA friends.

It’s clear to me that this little discussion is also about trying to exclude GM Seo and members of his association and showing little regard to his rank as grandmaster. If this is the corner stone of your little project than I will have no part or support it I advise others to follow suit.

Lugo



Rank and position are not to be sought. They will come in the proper time and by the nature of the man. Those who seek rank and position for themselves are poor judges. How can a man judge himself objectively? A man who seeks rank and position will do so over the bodies or reputations of others. They are not to be trusted. Instead, one should always seek to improve oneself and then test the improvements in the fires of life. It is never the rank that makes the man. It is always the man who makes the rank. Take away the certificates and titles and we are still only what we are. Here, in the person, is the only thing that counts. The clever combatant looks to the effect of combined energy, and does not require too much from individuals. Hence his ability to pick out the right men and utilize combined energy.



Sun Tzu

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Stuart:

I know what you are saying. NOBODY actively PROMOTES "exclusivity." Its an insidious attitude that seeps into our comments like sewer gas out of a drain.
Todd casually comments that he does not view what JR does as "traditional Hapkido" and what conclusion are we to draw? Kevin remonstrates Rudy about what he practices or HIS (Rudy's) place in the Hapkido community and what conclusion are we to draw? I advocate for practice of traditional weapons for those who subscribe to a Mu-Do approach to the Hapkido arts and find myself chided. What conclusion are people to draw? Now, if questioned about this, Todd, Kevin, Michael or a number of other people would only say that they are--- what--- being "honest"?--- being "accurate"?-----being "authentic"? None of them is going to say that they are being "exclusive".

I mentioned before that I that lineage IS important. It is NOT however a controlling or even a defining aspect as I see the Hapkido arts. The Koreans have never used this approach and I challenge anyone to find a case prior to the Occupation where this was an established tradition. This is a relatively new addition to the Korean martial arts and seems to proceed almost entirely from Japanese MA culture. I have yet to see an application of this attitude that is not driven by the desire to maintain racial, cultural or economic superiority. The Yon Mu Kwan and the World Hapkido Federation generally, and I personally, have not and do not support this approach. It is elitist, arrogant and counter-productive to the health of the Hapkido arts. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Rudy:

Whatever the differences that you and I might have between what we do and how we do it I cannot think of any situation in which I could imagine you being addressed in the matter that you have been.

I want it represented to the folks here on this Net, including those who have been quietly reading from the shadows, that I have personally witnessed your caring, your giving and your support to Hapkido practiioners regardless of tradition or affiliation. In addition to my personal witness, there are numbers of anecdotes that reflect that same inclusive and open-minded attitude over the years. Whether from your home school in SSM, out in Oregon with Kevin Janisse, down in Texas with Kat or over in Jackson with JR and his crew, your easy-going approach to encouraging growth has been a model for many of us who are still in the developmental stages of our teaching career. I am very sorry that a string authored by me has become an occasion for derision towards you and sincerely apologize that your voluntary contributions were met with such behavior.

Rather than risk the possibility of this behavior occuring again, I am taking this moment, as the originator of this thread, to ask the Moderator to close this thread to further discussion.

With deepest respect and sincerity,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Bruce, there is no need to close the thread. What has transpired within this thread has also interplayed within many other threads in the Hapkido section. It's apparently the nature of how the waters flow. As for Rudy, OK he took a broadside from a person who has an opinion. Any of us that avail ourselves of an open forum such as this, leave the door open for such encounters. I'm sure that I have entered the thought process of a few people, but I haven't hit their trip meter yet.

As for the crux of the problem of who's who and who's what in the world of Hapkido, that will never go away. People have developed strong emotional ties to their teachers and whatever lineage that was imbued. I went and review the so-called Hapkido family tree that was put together. Lots of people were linked back to Choi through various cross pollination efforts. Needless to say, all this did was made me scratch my head more. There were people on there that in my opinion should never be there and visa versa. There was however, one obvious deletion (we all know - ) Now I ask this question, is there an honest to goodness "REAL" family tree for review anywhere? Oh wait...........of course there's not, for I don't think any of us actually know if there is such a thing as authentic - real - unblemished Hapkido. Case in point; I visited the web site of a direct to Choi. Looked at a video or two and saw nothing different. In fact, it could be said that I actually saw something that was contradictory to what people have listed as Choi's Hapkido. Now what I saw I liked, picture quality was poor, but non the less watchable and strong technique. Now does that statement unto itself deminish what these people are teaching and what they believe? No!, is just one persons opinion, so I/we move on the the next order of business. Through all these discussions and bickering flareups, is anyone going to change what their doing with their study of or practice of Hapkido? Again, of course not. So I say lets just keep on keeping on and whatever form of Hapkido you indulge in, take pride in it and do your best. Every person's journey only has one ticket, so you ride alone.

To Bruce, Rudy, Kevin, Stuart, Todd, Paul, Lugo, Marc, Mike T, Hal, Holcomb, and everyone else who either join in or just look at these ongoings. May the Good Lord Bless and keep you all.

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL

 

[shesulsa]

Rather than risk the possibility of this behavior occuring again, I am taking this moment, as the originator of this thread, to ask the Moderator to close this thread to further discussion.

With deepest respect and sincerity,

Bruce

Mr. Simms,

First let me say that I respect everyone's passion for their Do. Loyalty is important, but I think we must all ask ourselves what we got into the martial arts world for and what we have gotten out of it. I would hope that most would answer that they have become better people, have grown, expanded their knowledge and increased their sense of self-worth, because without these things, one cannot appreciate the love a warrior contains in his/her heart.

We must tread lightly, however, because we can only get to the place we have come through not only our very own hard work, but the very hard work of our teachers as well as those that came before us. And yet, when all is said and done, we all still have so very far to go.

I further appreciate your desire to prevent further arguments and in-fighting. I don't think it's any secret how I feel about the history of martial arts in Asia but if anyone reading this now is not aware, I won't repeat it here for the sake of keeping the conversation on a productive level.

We KMAists need to heal. If we would forward the cause of keeping the legends of the Korean Martial Arts alive in America, we all must eat some humble pie, shake hands, and reunite as a family so we can move forward.

As a moderator of this forum, I don't see a reason yet, according to the rules and regulations of MT, to close this thread.

Perhaps we can all catch our breath, re-read the rules and regs and remind ourselves why they are in place ... why we recite our creeds, why we demonstrate respect in the ways we do, why we find it so vital to care for each other and talk with each other and train together even when it sometimes means putting the hurt on.

I would ask, how can we create a complete family tree of hapkido without carrying forward the dogma and, therefore, stigma of the KMA? Can we put our differences behind us and accept that we each are traveling the same path but with different gear? There is no way to do this without polite, respectful discussion and consideration.

I would further ask who is willing to form a historical records society which, rather than setting standards or taking sides, simply records Dan lineage in KMA? How would that group go about research and verification? I wonder if this is possible to do going back beyond a certain point. But perhaps it could be started?

Meantime, let's take some time to reflect on how to move forward as a family, rather than competing entities.

Happy Holidays to all.

Georgia

 

[American HKD]

It’s clear to me that this little discussion is also about trying to exclude GM Seo and members of his association and showing little regard to his rank as grandmaster. If this is the corner stone of your little project than I will have no part or support it I advise others to follow suit.

Lugo



Rank and position are not to be sought. They will come in the proper time and by the nature of the man. Those who seek rank and position for themselves are poor judges. How can a man judge himself objectively? A man who seeks rank and position will do so over the bodies or reputations of others. They are not to be trusted. Instead, one should always seek to improve oneself and then test the improvements in the fires of life. It is never the rank that makes the man. It is always the man who makes the rank. Take away the certificates and titles and we are still only what we are. Here, in the person, is the only thing that counts. The clever combatant looks to the effect of combined energy, and does not require too much from individuals. Hence his ability to pick out the right men and utilize combined energy.



Sun Tzu

Dear Lugo

YOUR TOTALLY WRONG! I'm not excluding Master Seo he did it himself when he left Hapkido and made Kuk Sool Won. I did'nt do it!

That does'nt mean I don't respect him or you in any way. I personally believe Kuk Sool is a sister Art to Hapkido and we can easily work together and train together but our origins are slightly different as is the Art.

We don't have forms, we don't claim an chinese origins and some weapons according to Rudy, but we have much in common from Choi Yong Sool.

It's always been very simple people don't want to hear it for some reason.

 

[American HKD]

Dear Bruce,

I never said anything that's not true here or tried to exclude anybody. Some people are threatened by simple facts.

Rudy feels all the Hapkido derivitives are the same Art that's Ok, but when asked if he'll cross rank a Sin Moo person he said no way.
Why not if it's all the same Art? Because he really feels there's a difference deep inside.

Lugo thinks I want to exclude him which I don't. The founder of the KS or HRD did it themselves, I had nothing to do with it.

Folks why not be intellectually honest here. I always knew since I was a guppie 20 years ago that all these Arts are the same. Some people want to lead not follow so that made thier own business/Art if you will.

I really don't care just tell the truth.

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Stuart:

I think you are being inaccurate in drawing your conclusions. Agreeing that all arts are the same is NOT the same as giving ones' own affirmation regarding a persons' competence. I routinely teach folks from a variety of backgrounds--- every semester. When I do I make it clear that I am not grading them regarding Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido. I am grading their performance vis. Yon Mu Kwan material that I present to them. As a separate issue, I will help people who are interested in accruing mat hours for YMK/WHF testing but that is a different matter. Likewise, when I teach a seminar my goal is not to recruit new members to the YMK or WHF. My goal is to bring people out of the best part of themselves and the medium I use is YMK Hapkido.

I flatter myself a reasonably competent Hapkido practitioner and I have attended a few of Rudys' classes. He has also given me paper attesting to my presence and participation. I have no illusions that I rate some competency in the art that he teaches, do not ask him for that, nor has he pressed such upon me. I have paper that attests to the fact that I participated in an activity and that is that.

If the moderator sees no reason to close this thread, I have no reason to object. However I think we need to make something very clear to each other or this string is going to go no-where.

As far as I know everyone on here DOES something. Maybe theres' different names and opinions, but everyone seems to know that they are DOING something. We keep getting into trouble when someone says that they DO something and, causal to that, they then state that they ARE something. This only gets worse when the dynamic is applied to someone else, to wit: they DID X; ERGO they ARE X. Now I may not be the sharpest knife in the kitchen drawer, but I know enough that if a person can not refrain from confusing what a person DOES with what they ARE, all we have here is a venue for tossing judgements back and forth. Not that you can't do that. Its just not something I have any interest in so you can do it without me. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[whalen]

When I left this forum a while ago little remarks were made about " Wow how we no longer need a moderator since certain individuals have left. "things change REAL quick . Has anyone tried just plain training instead complaining and worrying about who is and who isn't I Know it might be a new concept for some but your Hapkido will improve.

Do you think an attacker cares what your linage is ? The Hospital ride for him is the same distance.

I consider Master Timmerman my friend and I am proud to do so. He leads by example, not only on the KMA front i have talked with him about personal issues and he would give me fatherly advise an not try to force an opinion on you.

Now on another note it is not only Rudy that would not except Sin -moo people. So Stu Don't GO THERE....... You have my number if I have to explain I will.

I feel J.R and Rudy are doing the right thing promoting the KMA and are indeed Hapkido.....Has anyone invited J.R West here so he can have the right to explain or is better to just insinuate behind his Back ?

Something else, He Young kimm was the president of the American Hapkido Association back in the early seventies around 70-73 Before most of you were in Hapkido And before the name was used by Mike W.

At that time their was no Kuk-sool in the U.S . In the Mid seventies when i was in Korea during the first of my 9 visits . There were Hapkido Kuk sul Kwan Dojangs that were separate from kuk sul won and were members of the Kidohae the first Hapkido Association that Choi founded

Hal Whalen

 

[American HKD]

Dear Stuart:

I think you are being inaccurate in drawing your conclusions. Agreeing that all arts are the same is NOT the same as giving ones' own affirmation regarding a persons' competence. I routinely teach folks from a variety of backgrounds--- every semester. When I do I make it clear that I am not grading them regarding Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido. I am grading their performance vis. Yon Mu Kwan material that I present to them. As a separate issue, I will help people who are interested in accruing mat hours for YMK/WHF testing but that is a different matter. Likewise, when I teach a seminar my goal is not to recruit new members to the YMK or WHF. My goal is to bring people out of the best part of themselves and the medium I use is YMK Hapkido.

I flatter myself a reasonably competent Hapkido practitioner and I have attended a few of Rudys' classes. He has also given me paper attesting to my presence and participation. I have no illusions that I rate some competency in the art that he teaches, do not ask him for that, nor has he pressed such upon me. I have paper that attests to the fact that I participated in an activity and that is that.

If the moderator sees no reason to close this thread, I have no reason to object. However I think we need to make something very clear to each other or this string is going to go no-where.

As far as I know everyone on here DOES something. Maybe theres' different names and opinions, but everyone seems to know that they are DOING something. We keep getting into trouble when someone says that they DO something and, causal to that, they then state that they ARE something. This only gets worse when the dynamic is applied to someone else, to wit: they DID X; ERGO they ARE X. Now I may not be the sharpest knife in the kitchen drawer, but I know enough that if a person can not refrain from confusing what a person DOES with what they ARE, all we have here is a venue for tossing judgements back and forth. Not that you can't do that. Its just not something I have any interest in so you can do it without me. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bruce,

Ok to clarify.

The HKD derivitive systems or sister Arts are not the same but are very closely related. Is that better?

Lastly why does anyone think I'm judging because I have a veiw point that's different from thiers? I just don't see the smallness of that?

I did'nt create these sister arts thier founders did, Why to "Seperately identify themselves" as something other than Hapkido.

What's the issue here please tell me?

 

[shesulsa]

What's the issue here, please tell me?

Okay, I'm going to step in right now and respond to you before this goes on much further.

I think the first problem is that you seem to toss out an accusation then backpedal as soon as it's debunked.

The second problem is that first you say standards are in order as are a list of people who are active and have provem themselves to be "authentic" Hapkido, yet you later state that a collection of techniques is not important, rather lineage IS, then refer to tossing out folks who have cropped out on their own, then speak again of acknowledging them.

Then you get angry and personal and wonder what the smallness is in that.

You have been very firm with certain members on this board and I would like to see a martial artist take more responsibility for their opinions than that and honor the respect KMA artists command. That is coming from me as a member, not a moderator.

You are sending mixed messages. So I am going to put a question to you that requires a choice between one or the other, not creative prose as is your habit.

Question:

Is your design to:

A) record a lineage or family tree which will delineate who received what ranking from whom when?

or

B) put forth a laundry list of hyungs, techniques, kicks, combinations and various other skills required to demonstrate the skills required for !st Dan Hapkido?

Just answer A or B, please.

 

[American HKD]

Okay, I'm going to step in right now and respond to you before this goes on much further.

I think the first problem is that you seem to toss out an accusation then backpedal as soon as it's debunked.

The second problem is that first you say standards are in order as are a list of people who are active and have provem themselves to be "authentic" Hapkido, yet you later state that a collection of techniques is not important, rather lineage IS, then refer to tossing out folks who have cropped out on their own, then speak again of acknowledging them.

Then you get angry and personal and wonder what the smallness is in that.

You have been very firm with certain members on this board and I would like to see a martial artist take more responsibility for their opinions than that and honor the respect KMA artists command. That is coming from me as a member, not a moderator.

You are sending mixed messages. So I am going to put a question to you that requires a choice between one or the other, not creative prose as is your habit.

Question:

Is your design to:

A) record a lineage or family tree which will delineate who received what ranking from whom when?

or

B) put forth a laundry list of hyungs, techniques, kicks, combinations and various other skills required to demonstrate the skills required for !st Dan Hapkido?

Just answer A or B, please.

Georgia,

I will answer A & B but first.

1. I was'nt backpedleing just explaining mis-interpetations by people who did'nt like what I said.
2. I don't get angry just a little annoyed.
3. Kevin, Bruce, Disco and Todd agreed for the most part.
4. Rudy and Lugo did'nt.
5. It looks as if more people agreed here than disagree.

As for your question

I orignally proposed "A"

 

[shesulsa]

Very good, then. I've taken the liberty of adding an anonymous poll to this thread. The end date is posted above the poll. I will publish the results once it is closed.