Powerful HAPKIDO people

[Kumbajah]

Bruce,

It does seem to be your problem. Other people do network and look deeper in the arts. They do it in the context of their master and org. They go to seminars and meet people from other orgs and follow up. We had a group that traveled from Canada to the US. They had offers to stay in Dojangs from there to here and a few that weren't on the route. One person took it as a challenge that they wanted to stop by and gave rules of engagement, guess who?

Rudy's parking lot soft breaking clinic was because he chose to do it. No one guilted him into it. No one said if you practice the 5 tenets you better give me all the Hapkido I can handle. You threw out Jackson as counter to what you wanted in an earlier post. Below are quotes that I believe demonstate what led me to believe that the thread is about you.

I do think that their is room for improvement in Hapkido. There is room for improvement in any endeavor. Most of us are trying to get along.



"I am a Hapkido practitioner and teacher, whose art is suffering from misuses of Power and I am very interested to discuss the nature of Power in all its facets with other Hapkido practitioners."

I've seen instructors who will do un-godly things to there students to make a point or make themselves look good, or to finance some project they have in mind. Where have we failed with these folks? Thoughts? Comments?

For myself, I relied on the administrators of whatever organization I belonged to until it became apparent that the organization was corrupt because the administrator had corrupted it. What do you do when the "policement" don't obey the rules, ne?

here is something about the matter of "cutting corners" that seems to become a slippery slope in these matters, but how to address that keeps me coming up empty. Any thoughts?

True, I am not sure what direction to take, but the stakes seem a bit high to lay back and leave it all in the hands of Fate. Whatcha think?

Seeing a child struck in a Supermarket by its parent would cause me to act. What about a senior who is needlessly abusive to lower students? Better yet, what about a person, senior to ME, who is abusive to students? For another example, if a person buys a University degree from a market, well thats on him. But am I duty-bound to comment if I watch a senior rank do the same thing? Speaking in the abstract is one thing, but are we mandated to convert beliefs into action? I say "yes" but I suspect that when it comes to acting, I am something of a minority. The bureaucratic phrase, "he's a boy-scout" or "he's a loose cannon" come to mind.

I also acknowlege that most people go out to dinner or the bars after a workout. Ever wonder why they need to hide behind a mouthful of food or drink? Maybe food or drink is a pleasant shield or distraction when conversation gets a little too "heavy", yes? For myself, I was surprised how difficult it was to discuss Hapkido in any depth with people outside of the school. Still can't quite get my head around that one.


I just know that I don't have to sit 15 hours on a bus to go out drinking after a workout. I don't have to travel to Colorado to go out to lunch. I go to those events to connect with other practitioners ABOUT what we practice. Its not that I don't appreciate talking like this with you, but we both know the limitations of not being able to see each others face, or communicate in "real time". Did you notice the strings I started about committing to Jackson, and minimal standards and common terminology? Did you note the responses? People weren't exactly kicking down the door to contribute.Why do you think that is?"

"I look to sqeeze all of the Hapkido out of the weekend that I can. Its no big secret that I have left events early rather than continue to participate after finding out what the actual agenda was...
Me? I usually pack-up a number of books, papers, magazines and anything else I hope to share with someone and thoroughly expect they are doing the same. I remember one time I went to Jackson and was asking a number of people about Korean sword. Couldn't find a single person who had any interest, which probably wound-up making me look like a show-off out to demonstrate "how much" I know. In fact, I stopped bringing my books after a while when it became apparent that people were automatically thinking I was pushing to sell them rather than discuss the format and approach for their opinions."

"if Jackson is "not" a place that a guy who is passionate about KMA and Hapkido can go to steep himself in that art for weekend where exactly DOES one go? I don't know about you, Brian, but I don't need more drinking buddies. Nor do I need another Hapkido organization, any more political intrigue; not one more "grandmaster this" or "certification that". What I need are people who are passionate about Hapkido, where its been and where its going. The last time I was at Jackson I managed 10 minutes with Dr. Kimm and got at least one valuable insight into BON KUK GUM BUP. Now if I could do THAT for a weekend imagine where training could go! Don't hear me wrong. I am not discounting people who just want to get together and "play" for a weekend. But if there is room for people who want to romp and play I am wondering where the people are who are driven to do something else."

"To large degree that was a motive for starting this string. In my own experience what I saw were many high placed individuals espousing some high-flown ethic and then quietly violating the hell out of it in their own lives"

"the old "do as I say, not as I do" thing. I handled the first few experiences pretty well, and then a little less well and finally I could feel myself getting really annoyed. Now, as you pointed out --- a.) I have no control over their behavior and b.) theres no sense beating a person over the head about their own shortcomings. All too true. So, what I find myself left with is a strong desire tosimply no longer be "P"'d on and told to my face that "its' raining", if you know what I mean. I think what it is, I have become just a bit too old to blythely believe any old stuff some personality shovels at me just because he is "GM So-&-So, 10th Dan of Mir Ki Kwan". So it is that we have a thread on how it is that people come to abuse the Power they find given into their hands, yes? But for me personally the position remains that if there is room in the Hapkido community for other types, there is certainly room enough for me."


"My position is that if there is room for all the superficial, the shallow and the mundane I suggest that there is room for the passionate, the intellectual the deeply-abiding. I am not talking about people laying their truths at my feet. I am talking about people being willing to process their truths in some sort of meaningful way. Alluding to such truths, suggesting such positions, promising investigation at some vague later date does not get it! And nobody is ordering anyone to behave according to MY dictates. What I am asking is that people live-up to the values they THEMSELVES have espoused. Absent that, perhaps the least folks can do is own that the Hapkido arts are no more than a well-oiled hypocrisy; an illusion perpetuated to sell a MA image."

"As I see it, the question as it stands right now is why don't more people take the approach I am talking about and both Rudy and I demonstrate?"

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Brian:

".....It does seem to be your problem. Other people do network and look deeper in the arts. They do it in the context of their master and org. They go to seminars and meet people from other orgs and follow up. We had a group that traveled from Canada to the US. They had offers to stay in Dojangs from there to here and a few that weren't on the route. One person took it as a challenge that they wanted to stop by and gave rules of engagement, guess who?....."

Sorry, Brian but thats not the way that suggestion of a visit went down and I am a little disappointed because you were privy to that altercation and know what was happening. Somewhere I have retained all the emails if it would refresh your memory, but then, what exactly would that prove? It was not the benign experience you are suggesting. You know it. I know it. And the other two individuals involved in that matter know it as well. I am also disappointed that you are bending what could be a sound discussion of a very counterproductive behavior (or attitude) in the Hapkido community down the same old road of pointing fingers and laying blame. I have not derided anyone, nor have I criticized anyone. I've worked hard to keep things general and used myself when I needed to make an example. If you believe that makes this thread "about me" I need to remind you that had I used the names of others, you would have just as easily asked me why I was talking about others and not myself. Either way I would not have "won" and thats where I have become sad about this discussion. It is slowly devolving into someone being "right" and someone being "wrong". Same old Hapkido stuff......

"......Rudy's parking lot soft breaking clinic was because he chose to do it. No one guilted him into it. No one said if you practice the 5 tenets you better give me all the Hapkido I can handle......"

I cannot find any reference to "guilt-tripping" anyone. If you have some sort of unresolved anger tucked away about me we can certainly go offline and talk about it. But what you are saying right now does not jive with what we are talking about. I have not "guilt-tripped" anyone. All I have said is that if people represent what they do in a particular light or a particular way more often than not that representation does not jive with what they do. Listening to people argue about trivia on these Nets its plain that folks have a lot of passion for the KMA. My point is that Passion, more often than not, is turned towards lesser behaviors than greater behaviors. This happens time and again even though people speak about aspiring to higher behaviors. This string is about why that happens. Simple enough?

".......I do think that their is room for improvement in Hapkido. There is room for improvement in any endeavor. Most of us are trying to get along......"

I agree. My point is that the overall attitude among most of the people in charge in the Hapkido arts is that "we WILL get along.... just as soon as you see I'm right and start thinking like me." Now, I get accused of espousing this position many times. Noone has presented any concrete evidence its usually "just a feeling" they have. On the other hand I have never told my students where to go and what to do and the hand I have reached out to help people or the Hapkido community has been bitten more times than I care to think about. If you don't want to talk about that situation, I understand completely. But thats what this string is about. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Kumbajah]

Bruce,

I'm sorry that I brought that up. I only did it to illustrate a point. I have the emails as well. The orginal exchage was prompted by strong criticism (perceived as an insult) offered by you. And after all was said and done you still had an invitation to our dojang to watch our Black Belt tests and engage with GM Kim. Again it is best to let sleeping dogs lie and again I apologize, it was a lapse in judgment.

Basically what I'm trying to convey (I guess in vain) is these problems or lack of congruence with words and actions is perhaps a problem that is particularly relevent to you but not others. People are getting along better than you've expirenced. The crux is that people are not getting along with you as well as you would like or contributing to the projects that you think are important. I.E. if someone else had brought up minimum standards perhaps it would have gone further.

I hold no anger towards you. We converse here and in privite email. The invitation is still open. I think you can be very valuable to the Hapkido community. I am just suggesting that maybe you rethink your approach of dealing with people and maybe you would see more doors open.

Brian

 

[Master Todd Miller]

Brian,

You sound like a level headed Mudoin and I think you have brought up some real good points to ponder for Bruce and all others that are passionate about Korean Mudo. My humble advice to Bruce is that not everyone looks at the Korean Mudo as you do and there many different opinions on what should be done to improve "Hapkido". What we all can do for starters is be honest, Trustworthy, courteous to our students and all that we have contact with. Not all will act this way but people are free to do what they see fit. Bruceand I are not in a position to dictate what senior Hapkidoin should or should not do. The thing that Bruce CAN do is hold a training session and invite all that he would like to invite, Set the agenda and go from there.

Just some thoughts

In peace :asian:

www.millersmudo.com

 

[glad2bhere]

Thanks, Brian:

I couldn't see how that was going to help things. I'm certainly glad to let that go as well. Thanks again.

"......Basically what I'm trying to convey (I guess in vain) is these problems or lack of congruence with words and actions is perhaps a problem that is particularly relevent to you but not others. People are getting along better than you've expirenced. The crux is that people are not getting along with you as well as you would like or contributing to the projects that you think are important. I.E. if someone else had brought up minimum standards perhaps it would have gone further......"

I agree with what you are saying, and to make things a bit easier to think about, how about if we took me and put me at one end of a continuum. Make me an extreme "right" or extreme "left".(I'm not too particular. I bet someone could make a good arguement either way. ). Now moving back from that extreme towards the middle (the 68% centered around the middle of the "Bell Curve") I would say most folks are very comfortable in the Middle and that their behaviors are closely related with the groups to which they belong. Then, as you move through the center and back out towards the fringes, I sense that we would get more ardent group members (call them "cultists if you will) and more ardent individualists (call them "loners" or "independents" if you will). So far I have no problem with this distribution. I would suggest only one small tweek. Those 68% in the middle--- I suggest that we simply flip their priorities. Instead of thinking of themselves as group members who coincidentally do an art similar to the guy down the street, they now view themselves as members of a huge art, their group of which tends to focus on polishing a particular aspect of that huge art. What is it we can do about the way in which we transmit our arts to the next generation that will cause this to happen----- without having to start a NEW ART OR ORGANIZATION? Thoughts?

BTW: Opppsss, and a tip-of-the-hat to Todd as well. Thanks, Todd.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[shesulsa]

Gentelmen:

What would you think of a Korean Martial Arts Friendship Association? What you speak of, Mr. Simms, sounds like a higher order one must answer to regarding their actions versus their oaths/promises/creeds.

The concern I see that could arise from an organization of people to whom others must answer or be judged by or affiliated with in response to their actions is that this "governing body" or association or whatever one wishes to call it has say over another person's success. This poses several problems which some of us have already seen (or at least heard of).

Perhaps a friendship association would be a group of persons who encourage the higher actions of Hapkidoin, mudoin and other KMAists striving toward a higher standard. Rather than judge or affiliate, it would merely be a fellowship society wherein positive actions and ideals are discussed and people are supported. But then, that could evolve into or may sound like a cult.

Perhaps we all must ultimately rely on the presence of a higher power and the influence of love and respect and all that we hold high and precious in our lives and go on setting a shining example.

What you are commenting on seeing in Hapkido is happening in all martial arts, really, don't you think? Yes, some are saddened by these events and actions, but all we can do without turning fascist is set the finest example we are able (and in typing this, I am very aware of areas that I need so very much to improve on to set a better example for those around me and those following me).

Just my opinion and, as you say, FWIW. :asian:

 

[Kumbajah]

Bruce

"I would suggest only one small tweek. Those 68% in the middle--- I suggest that we simply flip their priorities. Instead of thinking of themselves as group members who coincidentally do an art similar to the guy down the street, they now view themselves as members of a huge art, their group of which tends to focus on polishing a particular aspect of that huge art."

Not such a small tweak. Ask the majority to flip their priorities. If you can't see that you are trying to bend people's practice to your vision with statements like this - me repeating it not going to help.

Actually I think most people do view it this way. No one thinks they have all the answers they have the knowledge / interpretation they received from their master they try to understand it and add to it if possible. Again you tend to your own garden. Share what you have, we all grow.

A couple of token quotes:

Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. -Leo Tolstoy

But I guess there may be hope for you yet.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Brian:

".....Not such a small tweak. Ask the majority to flip their priorities. If you can't see that you are trying to bend people's practice to your vision with statements like this - me repeating it not going to help....."

Maybe you are right. I may be asking more of people than they can reasonably accomplish. My thought came out of two places. One was that I thought I had history on my side. The use of a fractured community with each person coming only from high on top of the parapets of his own organization has not done us any good yet. Perhaps the KMA and the Hapkido community are destined to reflect the same clan-like or fractured organizational structure are their land of origin. The other thought was that I seem to hear murmurings of people wanting such a flip albeit generally from the area of Independent practitioners rather than those of long-standing affiliation. As I have said many times in this string, the idea is to find out why people write checks with their intentions that their behaviors can't cash.

Dear Shesula:

Your thought on a Friendship group has a lot of merit. In its simplest form, the Korean Kwan is something like that. Problem with the Kwan Model is that there are some cultural understandings that facilitate it that may not be, or have not been well regarded here in the West. The result is that one winds up with just another KMA roganization that uses the term for effect.

Now one thing I did think about was a Martial Arts "fraternity". Once people got past the PC problem of using the term "fraternity" maybe it wouldn't be so bad. On the other hand I'll bet there will be a hundred volunteers to be in charge setting and handling membership dues, revenues for events and what-not. "Meet the new boss; Same as the old boss...." FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Paul B]

I wouldn't say "flip" their priorities as much as acknowledge that there are certain shortcomings in our approach to each other. Tend to your own garden you say,but all Hapkidoin need to wake up from this little "turf" thing and realize there's more to be gained from "recognizing the next clan over"than not.

Tend to your own garden sounds to me like "ignore it and it will go away". Not the best approach overall,but certainly the one perspective from which we have the most personal control. Just a thought.

 

[glad2bhere]

Thanks, Paul:

"....I wouldn't say "flip" their priorities as much as acknowledge that there are certain shortcomings in our approach to each other. Tend to your own garden you say,but all Hapkidoin need to wake up from this little "turf" thing and realize there's more to be had....."

OK. I can back off from "flip". Lets start with "baby steps".

On a scale of 1 to 10 most people are "turf sensitive" to what degree? What would you say--- a "7"? an "8"? OK. What would it take to work with the Hapkido culture to bring that sensitivity down to a more moderate "5" or "6"? Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Kumbajah]

Again you tend to your own garden. Share what you have, we all grow.

I don't know I guess I'm in a unique position but think not. I'm part of the Jin Pal Hapkido Federation. GM Kim has affiliations with GM Kim Duk In, GM Han Bon Soo, and GM Hwang Duk-Kyu. They all have their own organizations but there is cross over. Master Kim Beom is part of his father's org and also part of our org. 3 of the 4 GM's came together for the European Chanpionships last year. All 4 are part of the hierarchy of our org.

Now each has their way of doing things ( tending your own garden/ own org.) but also come together and share.

You can see similar relationships with JR and GM Kim He-Young or JR and Rudy, Hal and Fabian or Lugo. Separate orgs but still work for the common good. So from my perspective (68%) things are not as bad as you paint them.

So maybe it is just the fringes that are left out in the cold. So perhaps you could visit in 68% land, you don't have to live here but it can be a nice place to visit.

Brian

 

[glad2bhere]

You may be right. Maybe things are not as bad as I am painting them. With so many people tending their own gardens, and working together, it should not take any time at all to have-- what--- maybe a common nomenclature? How about a common curriculum? How about at least a uniform curriculum? How about a historically accurate history and lineal "family tree"? How about a commonly accepted and accurate registry of rank and standing among practitioners? After all ALL of the people you have mentioned have been practicing in the Hapkido community for a goodly number of years, and MOST of the people you have mentioned have been the heads of their own organizations for quite some time. But your report is that they all work together, right? I suggest that they all participate in the Illlusion of working together. This is to say that at the minimum they don't get into each others' way or publically get on each others' case. That does not say that they "work together". Just like "not being sad" is not the same as not "being happy", not being in conflict is not the same as working together. Glad to hear that the people you have mentio ned are not at each others throats and that they very comfortably "live and let live". Thats fine. Now lest see them produce some real changes for the Hapkido community. I'm not talking about getting together for a tournament or organizing a seminar. I'm talking about making fundamental change about the way people do business. The Hapkido arts have been around--- under one name or another for four hundred years and the last 50 years have had the most clearly identified network of inter-relationships yet. But folks are no closer to working together now than before, say, the Japanese Occupation. I think you need to reconsider your suggestion that all is well with that 68%. perhaps you have a vested interest in seeing things a particular way and I would be perfectly willing to go along with you if you will just tell me where you buy your Rose-colored glasses--- and how you manage to keep them on for such extended periods of time. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Kumbajah]

"Maybe a common nomenclature?"

You were the first to present this as a problem. I think it would be a nice convenience but not necessary or evidence of infighting. I offered my help when you brought it up.

"How about a common curriculum?"

As per literature published on the subject and seminars we seem to be learning the same stuff. Maybe different order but we all get there.

"How about at least a uniform curriculum?"

Different teachers different approaches. Do all, say geometry teachers have to teach the exact same way. I learned euclidian geometry others learned a more modern approach. Did we not both learn geometry?

"How about a historically accurate history and lineal "family tree"?"

Dakin has made one, there's one on Hapkido-info.net most orgs have one. There are many practitioners, some still practicing some not, how deep do you want to go. To what purpose. Most lineage starts at Choi to Ji or ? to ?. "Wanna come in this dojang we need to see your papers"

"How about a commonly accepted and accurate registry of rank and standing among practitioners?"

Well there is the KHF. Granted there has been some problems. But is seems universally accepted. But I'm still not sure to what purpose. So you can jump orgs? So people can feel there rank is as "valid" as the next guys? Ensure quality of teaching? (what do call the guy that graduated last in medical school? Doctor)

As a self described "fringer" I don't understand your need for homogeny. I always thought that variety was the spice of life. This is an art not a science. There will be other approaches. Different body types different applications. It gives us more to draw from. I enjoy seeing another's approach. It gives me insight to the way I learned something, to see the common principles and the value in the different approaches.

You can belittle the cooperation that is there. But again it doesn't speak to your willingness to cooperate. It still sounds like "why aren't people addressing my concerns" My rose colored glasses come from seeing the good and trying to build on that. Not from pointing fingers and saying peoples efforts are lacking.

Peace on you Don Quixote,

Brian

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Brian:

To the best of my knowledge this is a simple discussion. There is no rancor. I am not belittling or denigrating. Its a discussion. There is no hidden agenda and I certainly don't have any solutions for the Hapkido community in general.

".....As a self described "fringer" I don't understand your need for homogeny...."

Please don't confuse a call for "cooperation" with a call for "homogeny". My premise is very simple. On any good day people in positions of influence espouse harmony, cooperation, understanding and so forth among Hapkido practitioners. When it comes to translating that into behavior, unless there is something to be gained for each individual involved, the leadership does not practice what it preaches. I guess I need to know what part of this simple statement you do not understand. The fact is that every time people point out individuals cooperating its because there is some reward at stake, but that is NOT what these leader preach. I don't see a number of individuals who have been in the Hapkido arts "making nice" though they preach "benevolence to all" to their students.

"....You can belittle the cooperation that is there. But again it doesn't speak to your willingness to cooperate. It still sounds like "why aren't people addressing my concerns" My rose colored glasses come from seeing the good and trying to build on that. Not from pointing fingers and saying peoples efforts are lacking......"

As I say, I am NOT belittling the cooperation that is there. I AM question the motive behind it. I AM asking why it does not come out of the altruistic position that leadership preaches. I AM asking why the same cooperation would not be present if there was not money or corporate success involved.

I think I should also mention, in passing, that I don't see my role here as the person to convince anyone that these thoughts need to be addressed if others don't see the discussion worthy of energy, or if they just don't see anything wrong with how things are. From my viewpoint I see the same bad moves and mistakes being made over and over again. I started a string to talk about why this is. If people don't see this as a problem or are apathetic about addressing it or even talking about it, thats OK with me. So far--- as near as I can tell, you have advised me that there seems to be no problem except, perhaps with me personally. I can live with that. What that comment DOESN'T explain is

why there is still divisiveness and antagonism among people whose interactions I am not part of.

It doesn't explain what the Hapkido community is doing about this propensity --- short of starting ANOTHER organization.

It doesn't explain what the leadership is doing to reconcile differences, what the next generation is doing not to repeat old mistakes, or how individuals are changing their behaviors in their individual schools and lives.

You can certainly lay this at my door like I am the odd man out, but factor me out for a moment and explain to me why the problem still exists. I'm not the only one that sees it. I'm just the only one who wants to talk about it in depth. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Kumbajah]

I don't know Bruce, you seem to see ulterior motives in any reaching out or cooperation.In the case of our federation there is no financial gain for each of the GMs. There is no new org that they have combined under. They trained together an now they have reconnected. Maybe they are getting sentimental in their old age. Other schools in our federation don't even funnel test fees to GM Kim, there is no franchise fees etc. I don't understand where you see this lack of practice what they preach.

So this lack of cooperation that you see glaring I'm missing. So this maybe your experience its not mine. Not the experience of the others I mentioned. At one of JR's seminars he took time out side of the group to show me some Tan Jan ho hop that I wasn't familiar with. When the guys came from canada he offered a place to stay. You offered Rudy as an example. What did he have to gain?

You started with abuse of power - buying rank - pedophiles - physical/ verbal abuse- policing ourselves - networking - Seminars are not intense enough for you and now we have come full circle from previous threads - to, I have these great ideas to save Hapkido for future generations how come I can't get anyone to help. (BTW what is a common terminology and common curriculum if not homogeny? )

Basically I saying you are guilty of petitio principii here - People who abuse power don't cooperate - people are not cooperating with me - they are abusing their power.

Are there abuses of power - yes. Are people buying and selling rank - yes. Are people misrepresenting Hapkido - yes. Are there pedifiles in MAs - yes. Is there backbiting - yes.

There are problems. There are problems in the world. Why don't we have a utopian society? Because as much as we we'd like to there are misguided people in the world and Everyone is fallible. We have only so much control. We can control ourselves. We can be try to insure that it doesn't happen in our dojang and in our own org. You pick the weeds where you find them. Learn from the mistakes of those that have gone before and try not to repeat them.

I'm not trying to say you are the problem in the Hapkido world. But perhaps you are the problem in yours.

Brian

 

[glad2bhere]

Well and Good, Brian. I can live with that. Apparently things are going very well in your corner of the planet. You also seem to recognize that things don't go well in other places. The fact that things don't go well in other places is noted, but apparently is not something that you care to delve into. Thats OK too. The only thing that you did not address is the comment I made about these things existing whether I am noting them or not. I may be wrong, but I know I am not using the cyclic logic you indicate. On the other hand, I wonder if you are not poking at the messenger for the message. I didn't make things the way the are. All I asked was if anyone was intersted in investigating the existence or perpetuation of these conditions. Since you and I are the only ones involved in an extended dialogue--- and you may be more invested in investigating me than the condition, I think I could be forgiven for concluding noone is particualrly interested in discussing this aspect of the Hapkido community---- at least not until there is another unfortunate blow-up. Thanks for the discussion.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Kumbajah]

Actually if you read through the thread I did delve into the problems as you presented them. Were we diverged was when you presented seminars are not intense as you would like and the lack of cooperation in the Hapkido community. I wasn't taking a poke at you. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean I have something against you. I never said you were the problem in the hapkido community and the root of all evil. I simply don't see the things you presented later in the thread as large problems or abuse of power. I presented that just because you feel passionately about it doesn't mean everyone has to and they were not a valid examples of abuse of power.

I agree this has run its course.

Peace,
Brian

 

[kwanjang]

My good friend Rudy I could not agree more.... Marriage is the only gift that you still give even after your divorce on a weekly basis....

Whenever someone asks for legal advise I give them My ex-wife's lawyers card ha-ha-ha

Great deal she got the house I got my doboks

Hal whalen

Hello Hal. If I had not had my doboks in my car, she would have had them too lol. Oh well, live and learn.

 

[kwanjang]

From what I have seen, there are more than a few people who get along great (even though we have some spirited differences to share on forums). I for one have met LOTS of good people in Jackson (and many other places), but perhaps that is because I try to do my best to see the good in everyone who comes to these events. IMHO, just coming to train at these events shows that there is a good martial art heart in there somewhere lol.