The Resurgence of Traditional Martial Arts in Modern Mixed Martial Arts

[JowGaWolf]

So this is the example i would use.
Here is a quite simply ridiculous martial arts move. That I don't understand and I can't do and I am not a pro MMA fighter.

Find a guy who likes to do this type of stuff. When you grab his leg, when that leg gets really heavy then let it slip from your hands. He'll fall to the ground like a sack of bricks. His attempt will fail, and you'll get some giggles when you see how hard he hits the ground lol. That technique requires you to hold his leg. When you let go, he won't have anything to support his escape flip. he will fall into emptiness.

Sometimes it's better to let go. I've seen this happen to someone in class. The person didn't mean to let go. He just had a weak grip that couldn't support that weight so as soon as the leg got heavy, the person trying to escape lost the support that he needed. He hit the ground and busted up his knees a little, (we train on concrete).

 

[Steve]

You can discuss as you please. You may disagree as often as you like, but don’t pretend to be an expert and know all about what everyone else is or is not doing. Silly is as silly does. You certainly display an expertise is prevarication if nothing else

I don’t believe I pretended to be an expert on anything. Can you show me where I did that please? And suggesting I’m a liar (prevarication) is against the rules. Show me where I’ve lied, while you’re at it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To find different ways to train is always interest me. Unfortunately, until today, I still have not found any different training methods that can help me to develop strong head lock.

This trains two things at the same time. But you can train head lock strength on a grappling dummy. You just won't get that second part which trains the legs.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Show me where I’ve lied, while you’re at it

lol thinking how painful it would be for me to go back and search for an example of this and then have an argument about it. I will however see what CoPilot thinks of this thread lol.

 

[marvin8]

That's my approach too. When I look at

- Chinese wrestling (Shuai Chiao, or Shuai Jiao) and Taiji, both uses borrow, stick, follow, yield, sink, ...
- Long fist and boxing, both uses jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, ...

MMA, boxing, etc., also uses the concepts borrow, stick, follow, yield, sink...

To find different ways to train is always interest me. Unfortunately, until today, I still have not found any different training methods that can help me to develop strong head lock.

What does this mean? Does this mean that there is something exist in TMA that still don't exist in MMA yet? A strong head lock can help you to choke out your opponent both stand up. or on the ground. Even MMA guys will love to develop such ability.

No. Chimaev uses a strong head lock choke breaking Whittaker’s jaw.

 

[JowGaWolf]

lol thinking how painful it would be for me to go back and search for an example of this and then have an argument about it. I will however see what CoPilot thinks of this thread lol.

So I asked CoPilot about you Steve. Ai is still stupid, it makes a bunch of assumptions. It's like a human that makes assumptions but 10x as worse. I hope they fix it.

So I asked about Steve's actual stance in regard to this thread. Once I asked the question it finally gave an answer that sounds like Steve.

Copliot's thoughts on Steve in this Thread. (question. What is Steve's actual stance in this thread?"
"From the content discussed, Steve doesn't explicitly express his views on the integration or benefits of traditional martial arts within modern MMA in the posts we've referenced. His contributions in this thread seem focused on addressing personal disputes rather than delving into the main topic of discussion.

Without specific posts where Steve articulates his perspective on traditional martial arts and their role in MMA, it's challenging to determine his actual stance."

Steve. this is you all the way. I had to ask the same question of myself.

"What is JowGaWolf's actual stance in this thread?"
"JowGaWolf's stance is that traditional martial arts have a vital role to play in modern MMA. He champions the idea that the techniques, philosophies, and cultural aspects of traditional styles like Jow Ga Kung Fu can significantly enrich a fighter's abilities and approach to the sport. By promoting a hybrid model that respects tradition while embracing modern advancements, he believes fighters can attain higher levels of proficiency and success in MMA."

What say you Steve? Hit or Miss?

 

[drop bear]

Find a guy who likes to do this type of stuff. When you grab his leg, when that leg gets really heavy then let it slip from your hands. He'll fall to the ground like a sack of bricks. His attempt will fail, and you'll get some giggles when you see how hard he hits the ground lol. That technique requires you to hold his leg. When you let go, he won't have anything to support his escape flip. he will fall into emptiness.

Sometimes it's better to let go. I've seen this happen to someone in class. The person didn't mean to let go. He just had a weak grip that couldn't support that weight so as soon as the leg got heavy, the person trying to escape lost the support that he needed. He hit the ground and busted up his knees a little, (we train on concrete).

It is to explain a concept. We can think about martial arts with evidence. Or we can think about martial arts with stories.

And I don't believe they are equal but opposing viewpoints.

I believe evidence is just better.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This trains two things at the same time. But you can train head lock strength on a grappling dummy. You just won't get that second part which trains the legs.

The pole hanging training uses your arm muscle to carry your own body weight. If you stand on the ground and squeeze your grappling dummy, you are not dealing with your body weight. You may think you have squeezed your grappling dummy hard enough. But you can't measure that.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

traditional martial arts have a vital role to play in modern MMA.

TMA has a lot to offer to MMA. Just give another 10 more years. I'm sure some MMA guys will use the TMA "rhino guard" to obtain TMA "head lock" in order to change a striking game into a grappling game.



I also believe that the TMA "tie - spring one leg and get the other leg" will be used in MMA ring soon or later.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

There are two ways of dealing with this problem.

I can either

Look at every possible thing that exists from martial arts to kissing whales and test them to see if they work. And then use the things that work in my own development.

But it would take an infinite amount of time, effort and energy and I would probably get ripped off a bunch of times. Because of the infinite amount of stuff out there and the limited amount of me.

I would probably be no better than when I started.

Or.

I can look at things that are likley to work and focus on them. I will get better quicker, save money. And I will have a greater understanding of the subject because I can apply something usable.

"Oh. But you are a boring robot just taking high percentage ideas that others have worked for. Where is your innovation?"

Funny I should ask myself that. No to innovate I need to understand the subject. And to understand the subject I need fundamentals that actually work.

So yes there is quite possibly stuff I do not know that I should know. But a system that incorporates all the evidence that isn't there is not the right way to go about discovering that.

That’s a great answer! I really like it. Makes sense from where you are coming at it.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I don’t believe I pretended to be an expert on anything. Can you show me where I did that please? And suggesting I’m a liar (prevarication) is against the rules. Show me where I’ve lied, while you’re at it.

Prevarication is not lying, nice try. I’d say look it up, but your post I’m replying to is literally another act of it. As far as the “rules” I haven’t called you anything, I’ve accurately described your documentable behavior. No doubt, you don’t like the taste, but I never called you anything, I described your talent.

 

[Appledog]

This is ancient fighting.

In Chinese

Shuai = wrestling
Chiao/Jiao = horn
Shuai Chiao = wrestle with horn

Originally called jiao ti or jiao di, it is 4,500 years old.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Sparring has a good way of highlighting things that aren't

I also believe that the TMA "tie - spring one leg and get the other leg" will be used in MMA ring soon or later.

I don't think it will take that long. There will be people from your system who eventually get into MMA and they will take and use that knowledge in MMA. The only thing that is required is System A vs System B. They will not do well in MMA unless they train System A vs System B.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

They will not do well in MMA unless they train System A vs System B.

This video just further proves that a good take down may not be able to end a fight (also to push your opponent away won't be able to end a fight either). Some ground game will need to be played after.

The SC guy is lacking ground skill. But if he had had strong head lock, he would have tapped out his opponent at 4.08. Of course, he cannot just depend on strong head lock. He still needs to develop ground skill.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

So this is the example i would use.
Here is a quite simply ridiculous martial arts move. That I don't understand and I can't do and I am not a pro MMA fighter.

So how can anyone have an opinion on this move? How could we know if it works? Was it done on the battle field? What is the linage of the instructor?

Or.

And that is martial arts made simple.

I’ve seen variations on it, including a head kick with the down leg, and something that resembled a reversed triangle, but I think the second video is on an entirely different level. That dude can move! It certainly looks useful.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Sparring has a good way of highlighting things that aren't



I don't think it will take that long. There will be people from your system who eventually get into MMA and they will take and use that knowledge in MMA. The only thing that is required is System A vs System B. They will not do well in MMA unless they train System A vs System B.

You know what I mean

 

[Sammy Naur]

TMA tend to emphasize cultural preservation and techniques that were developed in different historical contexts, often prioritizing form and philosophy over direct competition. However, some TMAs do include competitive elements, and some competition-based arts also maintain strong traditional values.

See, this is one place where I disagree.

I think the focus on "form and philosophy" is a mostly 20th century thing that coincides with commercialization.

Bringing it back to basic boxing and wrestling, the oldest of all traditional martial arts, they have always maintained competition as the ultimate litmus test. And that is probably why they are the least "suspect", and most respected.

Granted, I know you can find elements of both in many more complex TMA. Judo contains ancient Jujutsu. Muay Thai contains ancient Siamese boxing. Even Orthodox "Western" boxing and wrestling can be found in ancient Egypt, Greece, China, Russia.

Look at Kyokushin karate. This is a direct result of somebody who knew a lot about karate but lamented the loss of tradition, which wasn't just form and philosophy.

Eventually, you are backed into the alley, and I don't mean metaphorically.

 

[Sammy Naur]

not the same as wouldn't

"tame" think so ?
As you asked me, "what's your experience in MMA Ssireum ?

I have a significant amount of experience in Asian forms of wrestling, including Indian, Mongolian, Chinese, Japanese, Malaysian, Korean, Phillipino, Korean. Even Inuit.

The video you posted was kind of lackluster compared to wrestling on the Steppes. I think both of those guys would have been smoked in an MMA wrestling scenario.

And why did you cross out MMA there? Asian TMA do well in MMA if they aren't trained in the hobbyist sense.

 

[Sammy Naur]

The measurement of effectiveness are you using is based on what ?

Bruce Lee died young by training poorly and doing drugs.

My measurement of training effectiveness is based on honesty, personally.

 

[Sammy Naur]

Sweeping generalizations and assumptions, followed by bolstering and self contradictory statements make this whole thread discourse very unpalatable. Let’s at least acknowledge that there are a whole lot of babies being thrown out with the bath water here. Not a single person on this thread is, or ever has been, a professional mma fighter that I’m aware of. Please correct me if one of you has been, or currently is a professional mma fighter. Therefore, these broad strokes of condemnation for TMA in general are being painted by? The conjecture and indictments of pure amateurs and hobbyists about the training and methods or abilities of other pure amateurs and hobbyists. It’s insulting to the hard work and sincere efforts of those TMA who train consistently and legitimately. We t icannot know the methods or legitimacy of every TMA practitioner nor every mma practitioner for that matter. There is chicanery in every arena, to be sure, TMA reputation has suffered at the hands of fakes and frauds. If we want to persuade people in our arguments, it’s best to avoid vituperative rhetoric, which simply erodes what could be useful dialogue. If we just want to sling mud thats pretty easy, but very unconvincing as an argument.

Sorry to downvote you, but I have not seen a single person in the this thread dump on TMA.

What I have seen is the typical riffing on competition formants (which doesn't mean professional competition). I can tell a few people here have fought pro, ammy, hobby.

And suggestions that "MMA has a lot to learn from TMA", the subject of this thread which is backwards because MMA was developed from the churn of TMA in front of cameras?

Then came the "well, TMA has deadly secrets" trope which also is a fallacy.

So really, whatever your TMA is, if you still feel the need to defend it....maybe that is your own issue.

Because I have never ever felt obliged to go online on any given day to do something else like that.

Just go compete. That doesn't mean enter a tournament or go on tv...it means test yourself. Often.