The Demise of Traditional Martial Arts

[Flying Crane]

I think that a lot of people see formal training methods as traditional simply because they look like they are from the 'old days'. But, speaking from a CMA point of view, the traditional training method is one on one or teaching a small group. Large schools are really a product of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries (like the Chin Woo Athletic Association founded in 1910). But that's nearly 100 years ago so maybe its traditional now. Who knows?

It is difficult to pin down exactly what might be an ancient training method that has passed through the ages, so it is difficult to say what is traditional and what is not. Unfortunately, a lot of people think that lording it over and bullying students is traditional and the way the old masters did it.

A lot to agree with here, but I think there may be one element missing.

Let me begin by briefly describing my sifu's experience with his first teacher. Sigung would show him one or two things, and tell him "practice". Sigung would then go into the back room and read the paper, while sifu would practice that one or two things for an hour or so. Then, sigung would come back and say "let me see how you are doing" Sifu would show him, and sigung would make corrections, maybe show a little more, then again tell him "practice". Time to read the paper again. Sifu teaches me this way as well, altho instead of reading the paper he works with the other students who need more frequent guidance.

I've heard descriptions of other schools, very chaotic, the sifu would wander from student to student, or small group to small group, show something, make some corrections, then move on. Students worked alone or in small groups if they happened to be working on the same thing. But the notion of large group exercise, with military-like drilling seems to be fairly absent in traditional Chinese martial arts training. Those schools that do it probably picked up the method in more recent times.

So I think you are right, in Chinese arts, traditional training meant one-on-one, or surprisingly small groups. Teachers didn't have hundreds of students, and certainly not hundreds at the same time.

I think the element that is missing is the need to actually use the skills to defend your life. The world has changed, we often don't ever need to actually defend ourselves. We have sophisticated and reliable law enforcement and court systems, and society as a whole tends to frown upon violent behavior. For most people, it is possible to go our entire lives without ever using our skills for real.

So even if the "traditional" methods are still used, our true skill may not ever reach that of the older generations because we never hone those skills thru real useage. Sparring isn't the same. Competition isn't the same. Traditional arts were never meant for these sporting aspects, and while some benefit can be had from engaging in them, they are still not the same as defending your life for real. That part is largely absent from the equation.

 

[thardey]

You are is a rare situation in the martial arts in that you are able to actually learn, first hand (maybe second), what the traditions are and how they look and are imparted.

Yeah, that's why I usually try to keep quiet on a lot of the "traditional" questions.

Not only was my school instructor present (4th degree in TSD, IIRC) at the creation of my system, the Grand Master is in the same country I am in, and the names of the techniques are in the same language.

This does help to reduce a lot of the problems I hear about with the "loss of tradition", but on the other hand, sometimes I feel as though I am contributing to that, since my system is certainly not an old one.

Who knows? in a generation or two, people could be lamenting the drift of Chun Kuk Do, eh?

 

[pstarr]

Yes, I believe that traditional martial arts are coming out of a period of disinterest. It's actually surprising how many people want to know more the traditional ways but many of them don't know how to go about it - how to tell the traditional from the more contemporary methods.

In my area I started up an informal group of traditional martial arts teachers that meets regularly to brainstorm and come up with ways of showcasing our traditional disciplines.