MMA and similar arts are not true Martial Arts?

[Danny T]

Do the systems that you train in set standards to be the instructor of wing chun and so on?

Absolutely!

Or are we all instructors of wing chun in a hopelessly generic way?

No.

Once you have codified a system it is a real martial art. It doesn't matter if it is made up. Plenty of martial arts have been.

So you would cross train until you created a system that combines the individual styles.

So I am a high level Wing Chunner who is cross training as a high level Nak Muay who is cross training as a high level Wing Chunner who is cross training as high level Pekiti-Tirsia player who is cross training as a high level... and so on?

Or, am I simply a martial artist who is highly trained in several martial arts and a highly trained instructor who instructs several differing systems?
A cross trainer would be one who learns and practices a bit of one and a bit of another to offset something lacking in the other and then trains some in another system to gain a bit of say groundwork because the others don't have it. As a martial artist my individual expression of what I do is certainly mixed yet codified for myself. What I teach is the individual martial systems not a mixed bag of tricks. What my fighters do is to express themselves with what works best for them. Yet when they teach they teach the particular systems. j

I do not consider myself a mixed martial artist nor a cross trainer for I have trained, learned, practiced, and now pass on the complete system not just bits of it.

 

[Instructor]

Going back to the OP: The spiritual benefits of martial arts training happen whether one focuses on them or not. I see no reason a person practicing MMA doesn't have as much of a profound experience as somebody training in Aikido. If they have a good mindset they will grow in any endeavor.

While I personally do not find MMA appealing to say it isn't martial arts is drivel. These are after all human labels attached to physical movement, that's it. All systems are artificial in a sense that they are training wheels to elevate the learner to a higher level of function.

I do not think even that martial arts has the market on spiritual growth. I think any physical endeavor, hiking, or rock climbing, tennis, or whatever helps the old gray matter and alters one perspective.

In short, exercise good (whatever the label), couch potato bad....

 

[Transk53]

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First, you didn't like my scary-Drop Brear, reply. He posted, some cohort posted a humorous vid about that. Can we lighten up?
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Well from an observer point, I would leave the distinctions to you and those like who have more direct contact in MMA. Would you please expand, explain about your question? That would help me....

Firstly read what I posted. I did not disagree with you at all. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram. I simply asked you to clarify what you meant as with the approach you came up with.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Firstly read what I posted. I did not disagree with you at all. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram. I simply asked you to clarify what you meant as with the approach you came up with.

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Please ask someone else....

 

[Transk53]

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Please ask someone else....

Huh, will do. So what you are not prepared to follow up. Oh well....

 

[drop bear]

Absolutely!



No.


So I am a high level Wing Chunner who is cross training as a high level Nak Muay who is cross training as a high level Wing Chunner who is cross training as high level Pekiti-Tirsia player who is cross training as a high level... and so on?

Or, am I simply a martial artist who is highly trained in several martial arts and a highly trained instructor who instructs several differing systems?
A cross trainer would be one who learns and practices a bit of one and a bit of another to offset something lacking in the other and then trains some in another system to gain a bit of say groundwork because the others don't have it. As a martial artist my individual expression of what I do is certainly mixed yet codified for myself. What I teach is the individual martial systems not a mixed bag of tricks. What my fighters do is to express themselves with what works best for them. Yet when they teach they teach the particular systems. j

I do not consider myself a mixed martial artist nor a cross trainer for I have trained, learned, practiced, and now pass on the complete system not just bits of it.

Sounds fair enough. Now if you did combine the systems that could be called a mma or a hybrid,freestyle or any of the terms used for that practice. You could take one style and compete in mma,boxing,judo and so on and clean house or not. But you would not really be teaching those styles.

Even mma as a style can have different variations like vale tudo,pancrace,sanda (mabye) that are taught as individual styles.

All of which just helps people know what they are getting.

So when I rock into a mma school with my tapout t shirt on I do not find myself training akido/tai chi. Cos that is a mix of martial arts tight?

 

[Danny T]

Even mma as a style can have different variations like vale tudo,pancrace,sanda (mabye) that are taught as individual styles.

All of which just helps people know what they are getting.

So when I rock into a mma school with my tapout t shirt on I do not find myself training akido/tai chi. Cos that is a mix of martial arts tight?

First I have hear of vale tudo or pancrase as being styles rather as particular venues of competition. Actually Pancrase is the name of the production company that holds events based upon professional wrestling shoots vs works. Shoot is a unplanned outcome or series of actions within the 'match'. Works are planned. Pancrase is not a style of fighting and I believe vale tudo is also a type of competition vs a style of fighting.

 

[Hyoho]

Never have liked the words "Martial arts" They dont really ring true as to the purpose of what a lot of us do. Whichever you do MA or MMA they have rules. Kinda takes the fun out of it and boring to watch unless is really is an 'art'.

 

[drop bear]

First I have hear of vale tudo or pancrase as being styles rather as particular venues of competition. Actually Pancrase is the name of the production company that holds events based upon professional wrestling shoots vs works. Shoot is a unplanned outcome or series of actions within the 'match'. Works are planned. Pancrase is not a style of fighting and I believe vale tudo is also a type of competition vs a style of fighting.

sorry pancration.
http://www.pankrationcanada.com/

And pretty much as soon as there are schools that teach it as a dedicated martial art. I think it becomes a martial art.

That it evolved because of a competition does not necessarily stop it from being a viable art in its own right.

 

[Danny T]

I am not an expert on Pankration by any means however, Pankration, again was an event not a style. It utilized all forms of fist and arm strikes as well as leg striking. Hand, fist, forearm, elbow, shoulder, head butts, throws, kneeing, kicking, stomping, standing grappling, ground grappling, submissions through chokes, arm and wrist locks, leg and foot holds, locks and small joint manipulations. It was not a style of fight but simply fighting.
So today 'if' one were to train for and participant in an UFC event as a nak muay and combat submission wrestling, then continue to train in the same manner and then participate in a Pankration event are they now training Pankration, MMA, or as a nak muay and a csw practitioner?

 

[Hyoho]

One thing for sure like all the "what if" questions. You really are as good as you are as a fighter not so much what you do MA or MMA. One needs to specialize in something whatever to a high level then add ones character and fighting ability. I used to watch Japanese elementary kids grow up, join a high school club and get more intensive to win national championships because they could "fight". You draw on that and add your skills from when you used to win.

 

[drop bear]

I am not an expert on Pankration by any means however, Pankration, again was an event not a style. It utilized all forms of fist and arm strikes as well as leg striking. Hand, fist, forearm, elbow, shoulder, head butts, throws, kneeing, kicking, stomping, standing grappling, ground grappling, submissions through chokes, arm and wrist locks, leg and foot holds, locks and small joint manipulations. It was not a style of fight but simply fighting.
So today 'if' one were to train for and participant in an UFC event as a nak muay and combat submission wrestling, then continue to train in the same manner and then participate in a Pankration event are they now training Pankration, MMA, or as a nak muay and a csw practitioner?

I am not an expert on Pankration by any means however, Pankration, again was an event not a style. It utilized all forms of fist and arm strikes as well as leg striking. Hand, fist, forearm, elbow, shoulder, head butts, throws, kneeing, kicking, stomping, standing grappling, ground grappling, submissions through chokes, arm and wrist locks, leg and foot holds, locks and small joint manipulations. It was not a style of fight but simply fighting.
So today 'if' one were to train for and participant in an UFC event as a nak muay and combat submission wrestling, then continue to train in the same manner and then participate in a Pankration event are they now training Pankration, MMA, or as a nak muay and a csw practitioner?

Actually that is a simpler definition. You would be considered to do the style you train in. Not the style you compete in.

generally.

 

[Danny T]

Actually that is a simpler definition. You would be considered to do the style you train in. Not the style you compete in.

generally.

A basketball player trains in basketball. In the off season he trains in track and field and participates in a few events. He also cross trains in some football agility drills as well as some wrestling drills for resistance pressure drills that is excellent for basketball. He does a few wrestling events. What is he? A cross trained basketball player or is he a mixed event athlete?
An XYZ style practitioner comes to me for some muay thai, some boxing and some wrestling training. He goes to another gym and does some bjj training. Is he training MMA? He participates in some kickboxing events is he mma? He participates in some grappling events, some boxing events gaining experience in numerous type of events. Finally he participates in some mma style events. Is he mma, has he been training mma? Or, is he simply a martial artist who has done some cross training and participates in numerous fight sports? Another comes to me wanting to train and eventually when ready wants to participate in an mma event. He does some muay thai, some boxing, some wrestling. I send him to the bjj gym across town to do some bjj. He participates in some kickboxing events, some boxing events, some grappling events and finally he is ready. Finally he participated in an mma event. Has he been training mma or is he simply a person who has cross trained in numerous fighting styles for fight sport events?

 

[drop bear]

A basketball player trains in basketball. In the off season he trains in track and field and participates in a few events. He also cross trains in some football agility drills as well as some wrestling drills for resistance pressure drills that is excellent for basketball. He does a few wrestling events. What is he? A cross trained basketball player or is he a mixed event athlete?
An XYZ style practitioner comes to me for some muay thai, some boxing and some wrestling training. He goes to another gym and does some bjj training. Is he training MMA? He participates in some kickboxing events is he mma? He participates in some grappling events, some boxing events gaining experience in numerous type of events. Finally he participates in some mma style events. Is he mma, has he been training mma? Or, is he simply a martial artist who has done some cross training and participates in numerous fight sports? Another comes to me wanting to train and eventually when ready wants to participate in an mma event. He does some muay thai, some boxing, some wrestling. I send him to the bjj gym across town to do some bjj. He participates in some kickboxing events, some boxing events, some grappling events and finally he is ready. Finally he participated in an mma event. Has he been training mma or is he simply a person who has cross trained in numerous fighting styles for fight sport events?

he has cross trained in the numerous styles.

 

[Instructor]

" If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced."

Fox Mulder

 

[Danny T]

he has cross trained in the numerous styles.

And if I were to combine my muay thai, boxing, wrestling for him and have him go to the bjj gym is he doing mma or simply cross training in numerous styles?

 

[drop bear]

And if I were to combine my muay thai, boxing, wrestling for him and have him go to the bjj gym is he doing mma or simply cross training in numerous styles?

Are you combining it int a separate system?

 

[Danny T]

I am combining it in a systematic method for individuals to gain an understanding of themselves and to determine what actions are best suited for themselves in different situations within a fight sport environment. Then when the individual knows who their next opponent is we spend the greater amount of his/her training time preparing for that opponent.

 

[ShotoNoob]

yes but you are not basing that on anything other than karate is awesome.

You don't need a corner man. Because karate is awesome.

machida wins fights because karate is awesome.

what do yo do if you are backed in a corner? Karate of course because it is awesome.

which is fine but karate cant be awesome just because it is awesome.

That is q self fulfilling prophecy

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Don't believe I posted anything like that. Don't remember repeating 'awesome.' You kinda created the kind of reply you complain about me posting that I don't.....

 

[drop bear]

I am combining it in a systematic method for individuals to gain an understanding of themselves and to determine what actions are best suited for themselves in different situations within a fight sport environment. Then when the individual knows who their next opponent is we spend the greater amount of his/her training time preparing for that opponent.

If you are combining it then it is mma. If you are modifying it so it works as a separate unit to its parts it is mma.