The Resurgence of Traditional Martial Arts in Modern Mixed Martial Arts

[windwalker099]

View attachment 32671

My mistake, the question was meant to be
What is being measured?

The appropriate method depends on what is being measured.
The scientific method may not always be the best way to quantify certain types of internal processes.



For example:

Scientific measurement: "Your blood oxygen level is 95%." (Objective, numerical data)
Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) assessment: "Your lung qi is weak because you have a cough and shallow breathing." (Qualitative, holistic interpretation)

Each method has its own framework for evaluation, depending on the context.

In Taiji and internal martial arts, methods that emphasize internal processes (such as intent, relaxation, and energy flow) are often assessed based on how they affect movement, structure, and efficiency of force application, rather than solely on fighting ability.

A key distinction is that internal development is often judged by changes in one’s body mechanics, sensitivity, and ability to generate and absorb force—rather than direct combat effectiveness alone.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The measurement of effectiveness are you using is based on what ?

Do we have examples of Bruce Lee being water?

 

[drop bear]

My mistake, the question was meant to be
What is being measured?

The appropriate method depends on what is being measured.
The scientific method may not always be the best way to quantify certain types of internal processes.



For example:

Scientific measurement: "Your blood oxygen level is 95%." (Objective, numerical data)
Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) assessment: "Your lung qi is weak because you have a cough and shallow breathing." (Qualitative, holistic interpretation)

Each method has its own framework for evaluation, depending on the context.

In Taiji and internal martial arts, methods that emphasize internal processes (such as intent, relaxation, and energy flow) are often assessed based on how they affect movement, structure, and efficiency of force application, rather than solely on fighting ability.

A key distinction is that internal development is often judged by changes in one’s body mechanics, sensitivity, and ability to generate and absorb force—rather than direct combat effectiveness alone.

So there is no experiment that could test these things?

 

[windwalker099]

So there is no experiment that could test these things?

There have been ongoing studies in China and Taiwan attempting to understand the physiological and psychological effects of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) practices and methods.

Taiji, like other arts classified as 'internal,' is rooted in TCM principles.
While one does not have to adhere strictly to TCM,
its theoretical framework serves as the foundation for internal martial arts.

My own practice follows an empirical approach to Taiji theory and application,
reflecting the teachings of my teacher Master Zhang Yongliang
and other esteemed Taiji masters.

 

[drop bear]

There have been ongoing studies in China and Taiwan attempting to understand the physiological and psychological effects of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) practices and methods.

Taiji, like other arts classified as 'internal,' is rooted in TCM principles.
While one does not have to adhere strictly to TCM,
its theoretical framework serves as the foundation for internal martial arts.

My own practice follows an empirical approach to Taiji theory and application,
reflecting the teachings of my teacher Master Zhang Yongliang
and other esteemed Taiji masters.

So you suggest you can do a thing. You test it under controlled conditions.

 

[windwalker099]

So you suggest you can do a thing. You test it under controlled conditions.

"controlled conditions"

A long time ago. I worked with an Phd, level physicist who worked at one of the National Metrology Institutes
He happened to be practicing with me.

These labs are responsible for establishing, maintaining, and improving national measurement standards to ensure accuracy, consistency, and traceability.

A lot of technology is used to maintain the integrity of these standards. Using the instruments available, he attempted to measure what he felt from me—something he could sense and react to. However, it didn’t work out well,
he wasn't sure what he was trying to test. Neither was i at the time...now it might be different.


Nowadays, there are labs conducting studies on similar subjects with more qualified individuals who understand what they’re testing and how, leading to many theories.

One interesting theory comes from Jie Gu, Ph.D., who proposes that Qi in Taijiquan is an intention wave—a physiological wave guided by the mind. He differentiates the breath (gas) from Qi, describing it as a wave rather than air.

While interesting, this theory doesn’t fully help with my work.

I field-test my work with those qualified in the same field when possible.
For me, replicating aspects of others' work that interest me is sufficient.

you might find this interesting

In this episode, Bill Moyers travels to China
To learn about healing and the mind from another culture. “What I discovered in China was another way of thinking about mind and body, about health and illness and a phenomenon called chi,” Bill Moyers tells the audience in his introduction.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My own practice follows an empirical approach to Taiji theory and application,
reflecting the teachings of my teacher

Elaborate please. I'm not saying this to be confrontational. I could look it up myself, but that won't guarantee that what I see will be the same thing that you would explain. For example, "Taji application." Are we talking about health application, fighting application, offense application defense application, life application?

What is the empirical approach to Taiji as you understand it. If this isn't clear to other people in the conversation, including me, then we are only left with assumptions which loop us back to the beginning vs moving forward. I'm application heavy, but not so much where I don't see different types of applications. I often use Taiji principles in Jow Ga to help me recognize shifts in the force that is being applied to me. But that may not be the same application that you use, and it may not even be the same type of application that you are referring to.

For me, drop bear, and kung fu wang, we are heavy on fighting application. It's not a secret, everything conversation will eventually "lead to that ocean." Even when explaining types of principles, the question in the background will be "How do you apply that to fighting." If the principle isn't for fighting but for development, then that's something that's not foreign to us. I don't want to speak incorrectly for them, but for as long as I've been on this site, that's pretty much where we live.

So you suggest you can do a thing. You test it under controlled conditions.

The only thing that I don't like about this is that it doesn't take into consideration the size of water that is needed to make dowsing effective. In my opinion it's not a reliable test to figure out if something works. If I were doing that experiment, I would treat it like my martial arts training. I would want to know when it works and when it doesn't work.

My own understanding of water is that it would take more than a bottle of water to have an effect so I wouldn't start with a bottle of water. If it can't detect big sources of underground water, then it's not going to find smaller sources.
If I were going to experiment with it then I would do it this way and then verify with scientific equipment. To me it's like a metal detector. Some metal detectors are sensitive, some only detect certain types of metal. Dowsing would be the same. Was it really intended to find a bottle of water or does it require more water to actually work? I treat martial arts the same way. I have a technique that is said to work. When does it works and when it doesn't work is important.

The people in your video probably never thought it that way. Similarly, some people may mistake a technique to be a strike when it's really a grabbling technique. I'm guilty of that in my own training, but I'm also open minded about my training. Bruce Lee says "Be like water" I say "not every technique or principle is going to fit like water."

Sometimes things have to be applied where they fit.