The notion that you have to throw/submit yourself in Aikido or get your wrist broken

[Flying Crane]

Is anybody else as jazzed as I am about chocolate ice cream? I really love the stuff.

 

[dvcochran]

I don't think specific strength training is necessary if you do enough resistive grappling. I've never done much grip training, but have a stronger than average grip, because of my grappling.

I would say it is something that is person specific. If it is a deficit area then it makes sense to augment your training.
We did a Lot of grip strength training in Kali. I have small hands but a decent grip. It is something I have to actively work on, granted I do not do a lot of true grappling (anymore).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No... I have seen all gradings. Been to dojos etc. This is how they train. With the possible exception of Tomiki Aikido which is very small style globally.

All gradings? Everywhere? At all schools?

Oh, and gradings are not a sampling of the curriculum. They're just what's tested formally. I formally test probably 10% of my curriculum, for instance. The rest is just assessed during training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How's that minority view feeling?

You seem to misunderstand the concept of "minority view".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes it does. There are plenty of -- "grab my wrist my bro" training in Aikido. And the problem with the rest that they are all choreographed runs and tumbles.

Again, you're misunderstanding the drills. There's plenty of "give me an overhook" in wrestling. That's the same level of choreography.

Until you understand what should precede a technique, the technique is just dance.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is anybody else as jazzed as I am about chocolate ice cream? I really love the stuff.

I've never much cared for it. Never found one that really tastes chocolately to me. Now vanilla, that is good ice cream. Even the cheap stuff.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would say it is something that is person specific. If it is a deficit area then it makes sense to augment your training.
We did a Lot of grip strength training in Kali. I have small hands but a decent grip. It is something I have to actively work on, granted I do not do a lot of true grappling (anymore).

Good point. Like much in most areas of life, there are different needs.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Again, you're misunderstanding the drills. There's plenty of "give me an overhook" in wrestling. That's the same level of choreography.

Until you understand what should precede a technique, the technique is just dance.

The difference is that wrestlers also spar. Aikidoka don't spar in the main styles. They just keep on doing those various choreography ad infinitum

 

[dvcochran]

How is that even possible? You never apply techniques with resistance from your partner. It's all choreographed.

The obvious answer; IF that is 100% true in your training situation, then there is a problem with your training situation. I said it the way I did because I have no way of knowing if this is an issue with you as a student, your instructor, or your school. I cannot go so far as to say any style is bad. ALL styles have holes that can be filled by learning other styles. It sounds like that may be where you are at.
You have enough time in your style that you should know if that is the case.
You have enough time in your style that you should be able to easily (easier than a new student) pick up another style to compliment your current training.
You have enough time in your style that I would think you fee invested. This should create a least a modicum of respect.
You have enough time in your style that you should have been taught and learned not to bash your style. Your school or instructor? Maybe. But that is something better left to yourself.

This forum is a great place to express your frustrations. It is still unclear where you are going with your post. No one is debating that there needs to be resistance training. You know this as fact.

 

[Flying Crane]

I've never much cared for it. Never found one that really tastes chocolately to me. Now vanilla, that is good ice cream. Even the cheap stuff.

If I forced some chocolate ice cream down your throat, you would learn to like it. Clearly you are not eating your ice cream with enough raw aggression.

 

[dvcochran]

If I forced some chocolate ice cream down your throat, you would learn to like it. Clearly you are not eating your ice cream with enough raw aggression.

You my friend may be a choco-holic!

 

[Flying Crane]

You my friend may be a choco-holic!

Chocolate ice cream is all that matters. It is obvious to all who have even a brain the size of a squirrel’s, that vanilla ice cream never works.

 

[Alan Smithee]

The obvious answer; IF that is 100% true in your training situation, then there is a problem with your training situation. I said it the way I did because I have no way of knowing if this is an issue with you as a student, your instructor, or your school. I cannot go so far as to say any style is bad. ALL styles have holes that can be filled by learning other styles. It sounds like that may be where you are at.
You have enough time in your style that you should know if that is the case.
You have enough time in your style that you should be able to easily (easier than a new student) pick up another style to compliment your current training.
You have enough time in your style that I would think you fee invested. This should create a least a modicum of respect.
You have enough time in your style that you should have been taught and learned not to bash your style. Your school or instructor? Maybe. But that is something better left to yourself.

This forum is a great place to express your frustrations. It is still unclear where you are going with your post. No one is debating that there needs to be resistance training. You know this as fact.

sigh. It is true for main branch of Aikido and plenty of others as well, for EVERY school belonging to those affiliations

 

[Gweilo]

sigh. It is true for main branch of Aikido and plenty of others as well, for EVERY school belonging to those affiliations

It really is as simple as when using a wrist lock for example, get engaged and not married, if a stronger person is fighting the lock, their mind is in that area, and nowhere else, if it on its on, if it isn't on move along, if you feel you know what's wrong with the style you train, fix it.

 

[Alan Smithee]

It really is as simple as when using a wrist lock for example, get engaged and not married, if a stronger person is fighting the lock, their mind is in that area, and nowhere else, if it on its on, if it isn't on move along, if you feel you know what's wrong with the style you train, fix it.

You have no idea if the technique works if the person doesn't resist and instead follows a choreographed sequence of moves.

I think we all know why they don't allow resistance.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Here's how it looks with resistance. Zero successful joint locks, plenty attempted. And the bald dude was way bigger...

Imagine a boxing match where no punches land

 

[drop bear]

The obvious answer; IF that is 100% true in your training situation, then there is a problem with your training situation. I said it the way I did because I have no way of knowing if this is an issue with you as a student, your instructor, or your school. I cannot go so far as to say any style is bad. ALL styles have holes that can be filled by learning other styles. It sounds like that may be where you are at.
You have enough time in your style that you should know if that is the case.
You have enough time in your style that you should be able to easily (easier than a new student) pick up another style to compliment your current training.
You have enough time in your style that I would think you fee invested. This should create a least a modicum of respect.
You have enough time in your style that you should have been taught and learned not to bash your style. Your school or instructor? Maybe. But that is something better left to yourself.

This forum is a great place to express your frustrations. It is still unclear where you are going with your post. No one is debating that there needs to be resistance training. You know this as fact.

But if your partner resists he gets his arm broken. There is a kind of manufactured catch 22 created.

 

[Alan Smithee]

But if your partner resists he gets his arm broken. There is a kind of manufactured catch 22 created.

That's what they say as an excuse - injured, broken etc. The reality is that nothing happens. The practitioner is completely stripped, pants down, and has to think of plan B.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Aikido really is the Wushu of grappling arts. Only difference is that there's a partner.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Aikidoka don't spar in the main styles.

Most people don't train the strength needed to apply Wrist locks.

Agree with both on these points.

MA training requires:

1. partner training (developing).
2. sparring/wrestling (testing).
3. strength/endurance training (enhancing).
4. form/drill training (polishing).

If you only develop 1 without 2, 3, 4, your MA training is not complete.

To make joint locking work, you do need to develop grip strength.