Taekwondo: Out of the Olympic Games after Brazil 2016?

[SPX]

You see, when a guy starts running away then to me that's a signal to go in for the kill.

 

[ETinCYQX]

If you can not tell that you out class your opponent are are completely dominating them, they your coach should know, and advise you accordingly. Ask your coach about this question.

He's going to tell me "You're beating him, keep it up". However if my opponent starts backing up and it's been even so far it will be something like "He's done, get after him"

You see, when a guy starts running away then to me that's a signal to go in for the kill.

Me too and I think it's a question of context.

I have seen fights, lots of them in fact, where the fighters were very evenly matched and one gets caught and starts backpedaling. It happens all the time and it's not a sign of an inferior fighter.

 

[Twin Fist]

uh, i was a brown belt then, it was 1998 and thats Dave McClellen(sp) now a 2nd dan under GM Roy Kurban, and he was a tough fighter.Dont let that gut fool you......

try again.

But we learn so much from having internet access, John.



Like this match, where you, a self described 4th Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do and staunch self defense advocate and defender of the weak, is punching the face a seemingly horrified, out of shape, novice red belt woman? Did she know the rules, was she there to win and willing to take a beating?

From John Tygart's photo internet MySpace photo album.

 

[SPX]

Me too and I think it's a question of context.

I have seen fights, lots of them in fact, where the fighters were very evenly matched and one gets caught and starts backpedaling. It happens all the time and it's not a sign of an inferior fighter.

Yeah, I mean if you pop a dude and put him on his bicycle then it's time to drop the hammer.

BTW, there are several times in that vid where Vic kicks an opponent in the face, the opponent turns away, Vick goes in to finish it and the ref gets between them. Why is the ref interfering? Is that considered a knockout or does the guy get time to recover?

 

[ETinCYQX]

If you can not tell that you out class your opponent are are completely dominating them, they your coach should know, and advise you accordingly. Ask your coach about this question.

Yeah, I mean if you pop a dude and put him on his bicycle then it's time to drop the hammer.

BTW, there are several times in that vid where Vic kicks an opponent in the face, the opponent turns away, Vick goes in to finish it and the ref gets between them. Why is the ref interfering? Is that considered a knockout or does the guy get time to recover?

Last tourney I coached refs did the same thing and used a standing 8 count.

 

[mastercole]

Sure. I saw Steve score a bunch of knockouts, typical for a highlight reel. I didn't notice any blatant mismatches to be honest, I noticed all of his opponents were similarly sized black belts, and I didn't even see Steve celebrate his wins. I saw him stop kicking and walk out of the frame.

If you're referring to the clips where his opponents are backing away from him, that happens. Even Steven Lopez, Aaron Cook, whoever gets caught and starts backpedaling. Doesn't mean anything other than they got caught and panicked.

Maybe you don't see what I see, which to me is very apparent in their sulking away, grabbing their face and when he kicks their back side, emotionally trying to swat him away from their backside with a "leave me a lone" action. It's apparent to me throughout the highlight video. Show the video to your coach and ask him if the players in that highlight video are "skilled fighters", see what he thinks.

His showboating comes later, fringed clothes, etc, after his great defeats of the unseasoned novice practitioners.

 

[mastercole]

He's going to tell me "You're beating him, keep it up". However if my opponent starts backing up and it's been even so far it will be something like "He's done, get after him"



Me too and I think it's a question of context.

I have seen fights, lots of them in fact, where the fighters were very evenly matched and one gets caught and starts backpedaling. It happens all the time and it's not a sign of an inferior fighter.

No, it's not always, just in Steve Vick's highlights, where the people he is fighting can't even muster the most lame attempt at attacking him. I am not talking about an elite fighter moving back, making errors in the match.

 

[Twin Fist]

he showboats? so ****ign what, its what professional fighters DO

he hits people? so ****ing what? when you sign up, you know you just might get hit, in fact, i think people sign up so they CAN hit someone...

You need to look something up "Master"

Weaton's Law

google THAT

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Sure. I saw Steve score a bunch of knockouts, typical for a highlight reel. I didn't notice any blatant mismatches to be honest, I noticed all of his opponents were similarly sized black belts, and I didn't even see Steve celebrate his wins. I saw him stop kicking and walk out of the frame.

If you're referring to the clips where his opponents are backing away from him, that happens. Even Steven Lopez, Aaron Cook, whoever gets caught and starts backpedaling. Doesn't mean anything other than they got caught and panicked.

You're right Ethan, its very hard to judge the context of a fight by looking at 2 seconds of a bout. How do we know he out classed them so much by looking at 1 kick. From what I saw most of the fights were against other black belts of similar size. Im more concerned at the fact people are handing out black belts to people who clearly arent up to speed, if thats the case.

 

[SPX]

Last tourney I coached refs did the same thing and used a standing 8 count.

Wait, what? If that happened to me and the guy came back to knock me out I'd be PISSED!

 

[mastercole]

Yeah, I mean if you pop a dude and put him on his bicycle then it's time to drop the hammer.

BTW, there are several times in that vid where Vic kicks an opponent in the face, the opponent turns away, Vick goes in to finish it and the ref gets between them. Why is the ref interfering? Is that considered a knockout or does the guy get time to recover?

That ref knows the fight is over, but the way the other person completely gives up, and makes no attempt to fight back. It's the ref's job to save the person from serious injury, when they make no effort at self defense.

 

[mastercole]

uh, i was a brown belt then, it was 1998 and thats Dave McClellen(sp) now a 2nd dan under GM Roy Kurban, and he was a tough fighter.Dont let that gut fool you......

try again.

Looks like a chubby girl to me. If you say so tough guy

 

[SPX]

in fact, i think people sign up so they CAN hit someone...

Word. I know this is true for me. And I'm not a cruel or hateful person--nor do I have anything against my opponents. I think men just having something within them that makes us want to go to war.

 

[mastercole]

You're right Ethan, its very hard to judge the context of a fight by looking at 2 seconds of a bout. How do we know he out classed them so much by looking at 1 kick. From what I saw most of the fights were against other black belts of similar size. Im more concerned at the fact people are handing out black belts to people who clearly arent up to speed, if thats the case.

Whether you can see it our not, I can tell just by the way they stand, take steps, lack of reaction to his movements and their body language that they have no business in the ring with this level of fighter.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Maybe you don't see what I see, which to me is very apparent in their sulking away, grabbing their face and when he kicks their back side, emotionally trying to swat him away from their backside with a "leave me a lone" action. It's apparent to me throughout the highlight video. Show the video to your coach and ask him if the players in that highlight video are "skilled fighters", see what he thinks.

His showboating comes later, fringed clothes, etc, after his great defeats of the unseasoned novice practitioners.

The fringed clothes thing is kinda cheesy but I don't think anything else of it.

Even if everyone does suck they're still in his weight class and belt division, which as far as he's concerned (or I'm concerned, really) means they should be taken seriously.

No, it's not always, just in Steve Vick's highlights, where the people he is fighting can't even muster the most lame attempt at attacking him. I am not talking about an elite fighter moving back, making errors in the match.

There's a few matches where his opponent looks done, like he's broken or given up, but for the most part it looks like they give as good as they get until Steve knocks them out.

Also for a highlight video, one will pick the matches one looks the best in, sometimes that's the ones where your opponent either breaks or should never have been there

 

[mastercole]

Word. I know this is true for me. And I'm not a cruel or hateful person--nor do I have anything against my opponents. I think men just having something within them that makes us want to go to war.

Against a worthy opponent, for sure. There is nothing like it. But against a weak, unskilled and confused novice, no, that is out right bullying and abuse. Same as a full grown black belt man fighting an under skilled out of shape woman.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Wait, what? If that happened to me and the guy came back to knock me out I'd be PISSED!

Refs were told to stop if they thought the fighter who was hit was bleeding. What actually happened was people started behaving like soccer players and being overdramatic, playing the game as it were, and refs reacted the right way to keep everyone safe.

 

[Twin Fist]

if he sucks, he shouldnt have been in there

too bad for him

 

[ETinCYQX]

Whether you can see it our not, I can tell just by the way they stand, take steps, lack of reaction to his movements and their body language that they have no business in the ring with this level of fighter.

I have videos of me in Judo matches where I look like ****. I'm tired, I'm broken and I'm fighting like a child because the other guy is better and I'm not strong enough mentally to come back. Not proud of it but I look like I have no business being there and as a result I become someone's highlight reel, four times in a row. I'll post the vid when I find it again, it's somewhere. On someone's phone I think.

 

[mastercole]

The fringed clothes thing is kinda cheesy but I don't think anything else of it.

Even if everyone does suck they're still in his weight class and belt division, which as far as he's concerned (or I'm concerned, really) means they should be taken seriously.

Every match should be taken very seriously. Even when you feel the person has no chance against you, what so ever. That said, there is no reason to go in for the "kill" when you realize you have it in bag, and they are way out classes, to do so goes completely against martial arts ethics.

There's a few matches where his opponent looks done, like he's broken or given up, but for the most part it looks like they give as good as they get until Steve knocks them out.

Also for a highlight video, one will pick the matches one looks the best in, sometimes that's the ones where your opponent either breaks or should never have been there

We see it differently. I see people of no skill, before they are hit, during the hit, and after they are hit. No glory for defeating this novices, not in my book.