Taekwondo: Out of the Olympic Games after Brazil 2016?

[mastercole]

Some info I found- Steve "super kick" Vick masterd Taekwondo and took those skills with him to Kickboxing. Steve was a 4 time State Taekwondo Champion, 5 time National Taekwondo Champion,going into Kickboxing he Dominated,earning State Kickboxing Champion, National Kickboxing Champion, South Pacific Kickboxing Champion, Commonwealth Kickboxing Champion Welterweight and Super Welterweight Intercontinental Champion and in 1994 he won the World Kickboxing Champion tittle,then retired. Vick's fight with Hector Pena was voted the best fight in Australian Kickboxing History, reported by International Kickboxer Magazine.He is now retired and lives in Australia. Id be pretty happy with that cv. Five times national tkd champion, I dont think the going got too tough in tkd by the sounds of that. Sounds more like he was looking for a new challenge or possibly more money. I know over here (particularly back then) there was more money in kickboxing world title fights than in tkd comps. He went on to be world kickboxing champion, I think he retired pretty happy with his achievments and I find it funny that people who have achieved nothing compared to him can jump on the internet and question what they achieved. When you have achieved even half what he has I may be interested in your opinion. I dont mean to offend, but in all walks of life it really irritates me when keyboard warriors take aim at people who achieved elite staus in whatever they did. And yes, I do consider "national tkd champion" to mean "elite". I'll put it this way, if someone who is national tkd champion 5 times is not considered "elite" in your books, what must one achieve to be considered "elite"? Im imagining by your definition there are only a handful of elite tkdists in the world.

This is an Olympic Taekwondo thread, no one cares about his karate or kickboxing record. Get it? And no, he is not an elite level competitor in Taekwondo unless he is competing in international, world level Taekwondo events.

Again, you say 5 times National Taekwondo Champion, in what? Joe's back yard Taekwondo World Championships, or something big, like the Australian WTF Nationals? Which is it? I figure you would know since you know all about his ISKA record, which does not have anything to do with Taekwondo, again, what this thread is about.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

This is an Olympic Taekwondo thread, no one cares about his karate or kickboxing record. Get it? And no, he is not an elite level competitor in Taekwondo unless he is competing in international, world level Taekwondo events.

Again, you say 5 times National Taekwondo Champion, in what? Joe's back yard Taekwondo World Championships, or something big, like the Australian WTF Nationals? Which is it? I figure you would know since you know all about his ISKA record, which does not have anything to do with Taekwondo, again, what this thread is about.

No, he never competed in "joe's backyard tkd championships" due to injury. Im hoping to enter this year though.

 

[Tez3]

I think one of the purposes of the Olympics is to spread the 'word' about sport and to encourage ordinary people to have a go, for this reason it would be a shame if TKD went out. Martial arts is one of those activities that are easy for people to do in that basically you need an instructor and a bit of a space, outside even. You don't need any particular weather conditions like winter sports, you don't need expensive kit like golf, BMX etc uniforms are nice but not necessary. It's accessible for the people. Of course you need money to get into top class competitions but as an activity that does a lot of good, ie fitness, confidence etc martial arts are brilliant.

 

[Twin Fist]

4 times State Taekwondo Champion, 5 times National Taekwondo Champion

Maybe he is elite in ISKA and kickboxing, who cares, I thought he was a Taekwondo guy, what did he achieve in Taekwondo, nothing? This is the Taekwondo board, not the ISKA or kickboxing board, so, again, who cares, not me.

It's obvious to me he (and his coach) has twisted ethics, and no, I have no respect for that kind of thing. When one competes against an opponent one clearly out classes, in a rinky dink tournament, which is most of what he was fighting in in the first video you posted, you do just what you have to in order to dominate your opponent. You don't take advantage of their total lack of skill and experience, going in for the knockout.

Even in he Olympics, the pinnacle of martial arts competitions, American Steven Lopez showed good judgement by not knocking out the Iraqi fighter, whom Steven clearly out classed. Steve did just what he needed to do in order to defeat him, not injure him unnecessarily.

Then in the later videos he is running around in those "rhinestone cowboy" redneck fringe batman cape outfits, ridiculous. But if you like that kind of thing, beating up on the unskilled, raising ones arms high in victory having defeated the weak, adorning oneself in foolish clothes, go for it.

your Lopez love is showing.

 

[Twin Fist]

if mastercole's posts are a indication of the typical attitude of the brass in the wtf, it is no wonder the olympics are kicking it out.

 

[Tez3]

if mastercole's posts are a indication of the typical attitude of the brass in the wtf, it is no wonder the olympics are kicking it out.

The money?

 

[SPX]

Maybe he is elite in ISKA and kickboxing, who cares, I thought he was a Taekwondo guy

Yep, TKD guy who went into kickboxing.

what did he achieve in Taekwondo, nothing?

Well first off, his state and national Australian credentials have already been mentioned. Second, so if you don't have an international accomplishment to list then you've accomplished "nothing" in the sport? Are you also the kind of guy who kicks little kids and tells them how worthless they are because they didn't take home the biggest trophy?

It's obvious to me he (and his coach) has twisted ethics, and no, I have no respect for that kind of thing. When one competes against an opponent one clearly out classes, in a rinky dink tournament, which is most of what he was fighting in in the first video you posted, you do just what you have to in order to dominate your opponent. You don't take advantage of their total lack of skill and experience, going in for the knockout.

Not sure what kind of tournaments you frequent, but in all the "rinky dink" martial arts tournaments that I've been to you don't get a dossier on your opponent and a video tape with fight footage. In fact, you probably know nothing about him. It's just the random guy that's been put in front of you and you compete against him to the best of your ability.

Even in he Olympics, the pinnacle of martial arts competitions, American Steven Lopez showed good judgement by not knocking out the Iraqi fighter, whom Steven clearly out classed. Steve did just what he needed to do in order to defeat him, not injure him unnecessarily.

Sounds risky. Even against fighters that you outclass, the right kick landed in the right place will put you out. By not finishing the fight you are leaving your opponent opportunities to land that "flukey" shot and win the match.

Then in the later videos he is running around in those "rhinestone cowboy" redneck fringe batman cape outfits . . . adorning oneself in foolish clothes, go for it.

It was the 80s/early-90s . . . and it was awesome.

 

[SPX]

Let's get back to talking about Olympic Taekwondo, what this thread was about, who cares about ISKA or Kickboxing, go post on those boards if you want to talk about that kind of low level thing.

Oh, I get it now . . . you're trolling . . .

Well carry on then.

 

[SPX]

The money?

The top officials. . .

 

[Tez3]

The top officials. . .

That's the 'top brass', the brass is money, either way it was a post that really wasn't nice.

 

[SPX]

That's the 'top brass', the brass is money, either way it was a post that really wasn't nice.

Well it's the only use of the term that makes sense in the context of the sentence.

In any case, have you read "mastercoles" posts? They also aren't very nice.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Maybe he is elite in ISKA and kickboxing, who cares, I thought he was a Taekwondo guy, what did he achieve in Taekwondo, nothing? This is the Taekwondo board, not the ISKA or kickboxing board, so, again, who cares, not me.

It's obvious to me he (and his coach) has twisted ethics, and no, I have no respect for that kind of thing. When one competes against an opponent one clearly out classes, in a rinky dink tournament, which is most of what he was fighting in in the first video you posted, you do just what you have to in order to dominate your opponent. You don't take advantage of their total lack of skill and experience, going in for the knockout.

Even in he Olympics, the pinnacle of martial arts competitions, American Steven Lopez showed good judgement by not knocking out the Iraqi fighter, whom Steven clearly out classed. Steve did just what he needed to do in order to defeat him, not injure him unnecessarily.

Then in the later videos he is running around in those "rhinestone cowboy" redneck fringe batman cape outfits, ridiculous. But if you like that kind of thing, beating up on the unskilled, raising ones arms high in victory having defeated the weak, adorning oneself in foolish clothes, go for it.

Yes, you sure as hell do. Most of what makes a fighter good is the "killer instinct" or will to win. Did you consider Steven didn't knock the Iraqi fighter out because he didn't manage to?

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Yep, TKD guy who went into kickboxing.




Well first off, his state and national Australian credentials have already been mentioned. Second, so if you don't have an international accomplishment to list then you've accomplished "nothing" in the sport? Are you also the kind of guy who kicks little kids and tells them how worthless they are because they didn't take home the biggest trophy?




Not sure what kind of tournaments you frequent, but in all the "rinky dink" martial arts tournaments that I've been to you don't get a dossier on your opponent and a video tape with fight footage. In fact, you probably know nothing about him. It's just the random guy that's been put in front of you and you compete against him to the best of your ability.




Sounds risky. Even against fighters that you outclass, the right kick landed in the right place will put you out. By not finishing the fight you are leaving your opponent opportunities to land that "flukey" shot and win the match.




It was the 80s/early-90s . . . and it was awesome.

exactly right. Another thing to consider is that highlights reels can be taken out of context because you dont see the whole fight. I wonder if in 20 years someone will be watching an aaron cook highlights reel and see the kick where he knocked lopez senseless and say "gee who's that chump they had him fighting, he killed him. He must be fighting some nobody".

 

[Tez3]

Well it's the only use of the term that makes sense in the context of the sentence.

In any case, have you read "mastercoles" posts? They also aren't very nice.

Sigh, when do two wrongs make a right? What happened to the discussion about TKD in or out of the Olympics?

 

[SPX]

Oh, I think we moved on from that conversation around page 6 or so. . .

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Yes, you sure as hell do. Most of what makes a fighter good is the "killer instinct" or will to win. Did you consider Steven didn't knock the Iraqi fighter out because he didn't manage to?

I agree. When was the last time you saw a boxer go easy on his opponent because he works out in the first round that its a mis-match. If you are in a competition where knock outs are part of the rules and you knock someone out, how can anyone have a problem with that?

 

[mastercole]

Sure, I point out a glaring flaw in someone’s hero, so my comments seem “mean” and “not nice”, I understand. See, I know that you admire him, greatly. You call him “my hero” and even stated “you love his hair” on another post, but let’s get past that and consider his actions as a martial artist and consider why his actions in that horrible highlight clip that you first posted -- and that you have been posting all over other boards -- should not impress you or others.

I have been around and spent considerable time with the world’s most elite Taekwondo champions (including Steven), their instructors, trainers and coaches, form all different decades of Taekwondo’s existence, and I can tell you from firsthand experience that the majority, if not all temper their fight when faced with a drastically under skilled opponent. It’s morally the right thing to do. However, when face with a worthy opponent; they will perform at their maximum ability, killer instinct and all. As for boxing, elite boxers rarely run into this situation, they are usually paired up against other elite boxers, not novices that have never been in the ring before.

UPHOLDING THE SPIRIT AND TRADITIONS OF MARTIAL ARTS?

It’s appalling to see practitioners, especially those who like to think they are teachers, who support the show boating abuse of unskilled novice practitioners by an egotistical and arrogant skilled fighter, and his coach. Especially from those here who profess they, or their instructor/organization are the torch bearers of so-called traditional or some early form of Taekwondo and its philosophies, expounding that they are defenders of the weak with their non-sport self-defense teachings and are honoring the pioneers who came before them.

Of greater concern to me is the statements of ETinCYQX, who claims to be an actual fighter (winning the last match 7-2?), and feels that it does not matter if your opponent is way out of their league and unskilled, you use the killer instinct and go for the knockout. But I am more disappointed in ETinCYQX's coach. This negative attitude, fueled by a dysfunctional relationship between a coach/trainer/instructor/manager of the fighter is at the root of the problem that turns novice practitioners against intense martial arts competition. The bottom line is that at some point they felt bullied, or saw others of low skills face this bully attitude in the ring. So they run and hide behind the faux self-defense only/non-sport moniker. As for the fighter, we can see what happens if they do make it big on the international Taekwondo scene. They damage the sport, like Matos of Cuba, kicking the referee.

THE BULLIED BECOMES THE BULLY

These persons who were fixated on self-defense did so because of earlier bullying in their life or some other form of bulling or abuse they saw or experience that made it a major concern in their life. I know, for a large part of my early martial arts training, I was this type of person so I can see it now, clearly in others. The crux of these phenomena is that many times, these concerned practitioners never fully confront their fear, frustration, hate, anger, jealousy and indecision: that crippling failure that prevents them from turning choice into action quickly - seamlessly (called by some as OODA Loop). These scared emotions can build inside these individuals, and their like-minded associations, like a cancer and destroy them from the inside out. In an attempt to continue the now defunct like-minded group, they form a new one, with a new name and a new story of hate. This cycle of suffering destroys their original motive and the cycle continues, leaving a trail of dead-defunct groups, xyz, abc, efg, etc organizations. They can no longer clearly see the way to their own personal salvation from this seed of abuse that was planted long ago. They end up cheering on the bully, if not being the bully themselves because deep down inside they want to be something greater, or at least, a part of it, even if it’s destructive. We can see this in those who thanked ETinCYQX for his "go for the knockout/killer instinct" comment. This suffering manifest in other areas of peoples lives as well. Failure at forming healthy relationships with family, failing to find a wife, feeling unworthy to teach your students, living at home with mom, etc.

Learning about the self and overcoming these destructive internal emotional obstacles, the very thing that martial arts was supposed to do, never happened. What happened here is that the martial arts, taught and presented the wrong way, from a series of wrong teachers, pulled the practitioner deeper into an abyss of suffering. The very suffering that Buddha, Confucius, and Lao Tzu taught against.
Does all this apply to any of you? Maybe not. But if you feel it might, you should work to resolve it and not spread the disease to others.

So you think I am mean and not nice? Good. At least I got your attention and gave you something real to think about for the next 40 years other than that horrible example of a video that shows us what not to be.

 

[Twin Fist]

your posts made ME think that some people were better off without internet access

dogging on someone for beating someone else? in a match where both parties are there to win and both know the rules?

whatever

 

[mastercole]

your posts made ME think that some people were better off without internet access

But we learn so much from having internet access, John.

dogging on someone for beating someone else? in a match where both parties are there to win and both know the rules?

whatever

Like this match, where you, a self described 4th Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do and staunch self defense advocate and defender of the weak, is punching the face a seemingly horrified, out of shape, novice red belt woman? Did she know the rules, was she there to win and willing to take a beating?

From John Tygart's photo internet MySpace photo album.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Sure, I point out a glaring flaw in someone’s hero, so my comments seem “mean” and “not nice”, I understand. See, I know that you admire him, greatly. You call him “my hero” and even stated “you love his hair” on another post, but let’s get past that and consider his actions as a martial artist and consider why his actions in that horrible highlight clip that you first posted -- and that you have been posting all over other boards -- should not impress you or others.

It's FIGHTING. It is a COMBAT SPORT. It is not goddamn soccer and you don't seem to get that. Steve Vick gets the respect he gets because he fought ANYONE under different rulesets. He tested himself in Taekwondo AND kickboxing. REAL fighters do that, they have a "come get it" attitude and will bring it to anyone. The coaches here will agree with me, especially since I'm more or less paraphrasing Puunui.

I have been around and spent considerable time with the world’s most elite Taekwondo champions (including Steven), their instructors, trainers and coaches, form all different decades of Taekwondo’s existence, and I can tell you from firsthand experience that the majority, if not all temper their fight when faced with a drastically under skilled opponent. It’s morally the right thing to do. However, when face with a worthy opponent; they will perform at their maximum ability, killer instinct and all. As for boxing, elite boxers rarely run into this situation, they are usually paired up against other elite boxers, not novices that have never been in the ring before.

It's not any competitor's job to decide if they should be fighting an opponent or not. If Mr. Lopez had badly beaten the Iraq fighter it would have still been competition and nothing to be deplored. In fact I'd consider it more disrespectful to the Iraq competitor to not be taken seriously.

UPHOLDING THE SPIRIT AND TRADITIONS OF MARTIAL ARTS?

It’s appalling to see practitioners, especially those who like to think they are teachers, who support the show boating abuse of unskilled novice practitioners by an egotistical and arrogant skilled fighter, and his coach. Especially from those here who profess they, or their instructor/organization are the torch bearers of so-called traditional or some early form of Taekwondo and its philosophies, expounding that they are defenders of the weak with their non-sport self-defense teachings and are honoring the pioneers who came before them.

It's not ego, it's called FIGHTING. It is a COMPETITION.

Of greater concern to me is the statements of ETinCYQX, who claims to be an actual fighter (winning the last match 7-2?), and feels that it does not matter if your opponent is way out of their league and unskilled, you use the killer instinct and go for the knockout.

I don't call myself a competitor. Haven't competed to any significance for years. The reference to that match was about my opponent scoring with punches and you and I both know that. Of course, it helps your point to quote me out of context and make me look like a thug.

And yes, if we are in a tournament and you are across the mat from me, it is not my fault nor my problem if you are not in my league. I will take you at face value and consider you an equally skilled martial artist that I need to bring it against. (I use "me" "we" and "you" hypothetically. Easier to express this thought this way.)

But I am more disappointed in ETinCYQX's coach.

I'm sure Master Nippard is heartbroken.

This negative attitude, fueled by a dysfunctional relationship between a coach/trainer/instructor/manager of the fighter is at the root of the problem that turns novice practitioners against intense martial arts competition. The bottom line is that at some point they felt bullied, or saw others of low skills face this bully attitude in the ring. So they run and hide behind the faux self-defense only/non-sport moniker. As for the fighter, we can see what happens if they do make it big on the international Taekwondo scene. They damage the sport, like Matos of Cuba, kicking the referee.

It's not being a bully. It's taking every competitor at face value and taking every challenge seriously. Sport 101.

THE BULLIED BECOMES THE BULLY

These persons who were fixated on self-defense did so because of earlier bullying in their life or some other form of bulling or abuse they saw or experience that made it a major concern in their life. I know, for a large part of my early martial arts training, I was this type of person so I can see it now, clearly in others. The crux of these phenomena is that many times, these concerned practitioners never fully confront their fear, frustration, hate, anger, jealousy and indecision: that crippling failure that prevents them from turning choice into action quickly - seamlessly (called by some as OODA Loop). These scared emotions can build inside these individuals, and their like-minded associations, like a cancer and destroy them from the inside out. In an attempt to continue the now defunct like-minded group, they form a new one, with a new name and a new story of hate. This cycle of suffering destroys their original motive and the cycle continues, leaving a trail of dead-defunct groups, xyz, abc, efg, etc organizations. They can no longer clearly see the way to their own personal salvation from this seed of abuse that was planted long ago. They end up cheering on the bully, if not being the bully themselves because deep down inside they want to be something greater, or at least, a part of it, even if it’s destructive. We can see this in those who thanked ETinCYQX for his "go for the knockout/killer instinct" comment. This suffering manifest in other areas of peoples lives as well. Failure at forming healthy relationships with family, failing to find a wife, feeling unworthy to teach your students, living at home with mom, etc.

I started because I was getting picked on and lacked confidence. I have never hit another person, in anger or self defense. When I was a kid I competed in tournaments and this taught me to believe in myself. Soccer, basketball, hockey would have done the same thing, even my moderate level of local success gave me a sense of self worth. For the record you're still this type of person judging by this post, just more passive aggressive.

Learning about the self and overcoming these destructive internal emotional obstacles, the very thing that martial arts was supposed to do, never happened. What happened here is that the martial arts, taught and presented the wrong way, from a series of wrong teachers, pulled the practitioner deeper into an abyss of suffering. The very suffering that Buddha, Confucius, and Lao Tzu taught against.
Does all this apply to any of you? Maybe not. But if you feel it might, you should work to resolve it and not spread the disease to others.

Thanks for your psychiatric assessment that I'm an insecure bully, along with Twin Fist, Ralphmcpherson and SPX. Noted.

So you think I am mean and not nice? Good. At least I got your attention and gave you something real to think about for the next 40 years other than that horrible example of a video that shows us what not to be.

What makes you so much better qualified than me or my instructors to decide what a martial artist should think like? I'm curious here, are you that much more knowledgeable than anyone else or is this an opinion?

You're quoting me out of context to prove your point, as well as denigrating me, my instructor, my training AND my students. Neither of which you know. To put it kindly, stuff it.

For the record my name is Ethan Terris. I started training with Mr. Raymond Bennett in 1997 under Grandmaster Jung Soo Park. Circa 2000 my training moved to Mr. Chad Nippard under Grandmaster Woo Young Jung and the Kukkiwon, then to Master T. Nippard under same before I took a break for around 6 years in 2003. I returned in 2009 as a 1st kup under Mr. Sam Lee and I was promoted to first degree black belt in June 2011 by Master Nippard. Currently I run Terris' Taekwondo in Gander, Newfoundland for Master Nippard. Now you know who I am, who teaches me, who has ever taught me and who gave me my black belt. These people all think I am a worthy martial artist and they've known me personally since literally before I was old enough to remember.