I disagree. I think a lot of misconceptions about the applications of taekwondo stem from the false notion that Koreans were defeating their enemies with taekwondo kicks 2,000 years ago.
Misconceptions, Yes. I do not Believe TKD Kicks were used 2000 Years ago, and have never even heard that Idealogy. As far as I know, it was Idealised in the 50s with a Karate Influence, and I see No Reason to Learn More.
I did not say TKD has degenerated into fanciful stuff. I said I think the sporting focus has helped keep TKD from degenerating into fanciful stuff. Please make sure you know what a post says next time before you -rep it.
This is the Contradiction. The Sport Focus is why TKD is Viewed as not using Guards, Not Blocking, and Rarely if ever Punching. If the Sport is whats Preventing Fancy Stuff, well thats Funny, since any given Old Video of TKD has next to No, or No Fanciful Stuff at all. Can You Support Your Statements? (Amazingly, this is out of Curiousity!)
I have also trained Taekwondo, otherwise I wouldn't be posting in a taekwondo forum. Please refrain from making assumptions.
Making Presumptions based on Information Provided. However, this would only Reinforce another Posters Comment that You are Viewing this Subjectively to YOUR Experience with TKD.
Irrelevant, baseless insult. Borderline trolling.
If I were Trolling, I would have said something about Aikido.
Feel Free to Feel this way, though. Ill come back to it in a sec.
There is plenty of room for disagreement on MT. Look up the page and you will see Raplh disagreeing with me quite effectively. He, however, does a few things you do not do: (1) he is courteous and not condescending, (2) he cites actual experience, (3) he makes no uninformed assumptions, (4) he refrains from personal attacks, and (5) he does not quickdraw -rep.
If I came across as Condescending, well, that was not My Intention. As for Experience, I have Spoken to Numerous People who have used TKD in both Self Defense and Military Service. I have also used it on Two Occassions. These Uninformed Assumptions are based on Your Profile. I did not Personally Attack You. And I feel that Your Statements were too Sweeping, and Generalized TKD based on the Variety of it which is ultimately not as close to a Fighting Purpose as others. And I am not referring to the KKW Form, but to Instructors who trim it down to be Fanciful.
You were in such a hurry to call me an idiot that you misread my post and jumped to some very wrong conclusions. Please be more careful in the future. If you'd like to continue this conversation like a grown-up, I'm listening.
And yet I am not the only Person here Disagreeing with Your Previous Reply.
I am Careful, and believe it or not, I am attempting to Communicate. If I wanted to simply Criticize You, I would have made an Equally Sweeping Disagreement.
To jump back to History, Kickboxing was Stemmed from Karate. And yet it barely Resembles it. Does the fact Kickboxing Stems from Karate mean that its Historical Connection to Karate Influences how the System is Taught?
A Fair Few Forms of Kickboxing have Belt Systems. And so forth.
Different Places Teach Different TKD History, and different TKD Interpritations.
And so forth.
What Ive been trying to say, is that You are seeing the Less Fighting-Geared Form of TKD as being more Present.
Personally, I consider the transition of taekwondo from martial art to sport a good thing. I think it promotes a more realistic attitude toward the applications of the art (fewer people thinking they're going to take on five guys in the street Van Damme-style); keeps TKD from going the way many karate programs have gone--into a pit of fanciful, pseudo-religious nonsense; and allows people to focus on the Korean innovations to the art without clinging to the nationalistic fabrication that is the official history of taekwondo. What the Kukkiwon and the WTF need to do to make this work, though, is stop changing the rules and the forms every few years and stop pushing the aforementioned falsified history as required reading.
See the Italic Text? I Agree with Both of Those. Isnt it amazing that Im not just Personally Attacking You?
The Underlined Text is what Im Speaking of Firstly. Yes, History can be Overtaught. By some Instructors. But definitely not all, and probably not the Overall Majority in all TKD.
As for Martial Art and Sport, Ill let a KKW TKD Stylist talk about the difference between Sport Forms, and Not-So-Sport-Forms.
Then the Bold Text:
No martial art will prepare you for taking on 5 guys van damme style, BUT tkd taught as a martial art (not sport) will prepare you to handle yourself very well in a real life situation. I know many police officers and army guys who train soley martial tkd and they can not only fight very well, but are using what they know in day to day situations. There is no problem with 'sport' tkd providing the guys doing it know they are not learning to defend themselves, they are learning a sport. There is still plenty of room for it to co-exist with martial tkd in my opinion.
The Underlined Text is a Reply by a TKD Practitioner, who doesnt Practition a Sporting Form who has Learnt, and possibly been Taught this.
The Italic Text is to Verify His View, which is basically Mine, also.
The Bold Text is also what Ive been saying.
History Teaching is hardly Relevant to Application of a System. You also seem to be Confused. On the one hand, You say TKD has Degenerated into Fanciful Stuff and not so much a Fighting Form, but also say that You think its Good that its becoming more Sport than Art. Rethink Your Viewpoint.
This is Me saying that the History does not direct the Art. Some places just Teach it too Emphatically.
I then go on to say that You said; " I think it promotes a more realistic attitude toward the applications of the art (fewer people thinking they're going to take on five guys in the street Van Damme-style);" and "gone--into a pit of fanciful, pseudo-religious nonsense;". What else am I supposed to think? Next Time, Ill be sure to assume that by this, You mean that no TKD is like that at all, and doesnt teach that kind of stuff. And Naturally Assume that You meant, "I did not say TKD has degenerated into fanciful stuff. I said I think the sporting focus has helped keep TKD from degenerating into fanciful stuff. Please make sure you know what a post says next time before you -rep it."
Yeah.
Probably because You do Aikido.
I wouldnt expect You to meet many TKD Practitioners from Various Systems of TKD in Your Aikido Dojo.
I could not have Possibly known that You have Trained TKD.
**That aside, You must have a Truly Strange Idea of what Self Defense is, You Poor Soul.
This was meant in Good Humor partly, but also in Response to;
"I've never met a person who uses what would be recognized in a dojang as taekwondo in self-defense situations."
This is still Subjective. It means that You, where You Trained, did not Meet someone who Mentioned such a thing. This doesnt mean theyre a Minority in that sense. The fact is, most Martial Artists are not only able to Avoid Violent Confrontation, or Circumvent it, but are also not likely to talk about it Regularly. And even if they are, they will still appear to be the Minority due to the sheer number of People in the World who do TKD.
so you've never seen someone use a hook punch, uppercut, front kick, elbow, throat strike etc in a real situation? Or do you only refer to tkd clubs where they bounce around doing tornado kicks for an hour and a half with a bit of tappy point sparrring thrown in? Go and check out some ITF dojangs or some schools teaching traditional tkd, there are schools everywhere that teach tkd applicable to real situations.
These are all TKD Techniques, taught in Traditional TKD. (Not the Bold Text. The Techniques. But hey, Jumping Spinning Roundhouses have been around for a long time as well. Theyre just rare as hell in usage)
Now, if We Disagree on this, that is Fine.
I dont Mind.
There is Nothing Wrong with Agreeing to Disagree.
But Bare in Mind, that if what I was saying was a Personal Attack, then perhaps consider Re-Reading it in a Different Mindset.
And if I were Trolling, all Id have to do is say something about Aikidokas.
** - In Regards to This Section, Ralph Mcpherson Answers nicely. If those Methods arent Self Defense, well, thats Interesting. Hence My Comment.
Those are TKD Techniques in TKD. Non-Sport TKD.
In Addition, I am apparently Rude and Misreading, according to the Returned Rep-, otherwise known as Cause>Effect.
Id rather like another Users Input on This Conversation.
