Taekwondo: Out of the Olympic Games after Brazil 2016?

[ATACX GYM]

Next year will be quite an important year for the Taekwondo community. The IOC will be making decisions whether to keep Taekwondo as an Olympic sport. We have to brace ourselves and be ready to the possibility that Taekwondo won’t be part of the Olympic Games after 2016. And should that happen, how will this affect us?As a Taekwondo school owner, I don’t think there’s any effect at all. People who have started training with me don’t care at all if we are an Olympic sport or not.

Taekwondo is also very small in our country so we don’t get much publicity. We might get some if someone is fighting at the Olympics. But so far, we haven’t won any medals so big for media to show any interest.But for me, personally, it would be very sad if we are not part of the Olympics. But like I mentioned earlier, it won’t have any effect on my own training or how I operate my school.

The national federations might be a different story though. In some countries, I suspect that they will get less money from their national Olympic committees and that will surely have a negative effect on their operations.Is being in the Olympic Games necessary for us?Well, not for individual schools. But for the national federations, it is quite important because of the money and status. But for people like me who are focusing more on “average” Taekwondo students, everything will stay the same. So it really doesn’t matter if we are on the Olympics or not.

But what do you think?

Yours,

Markku Parviainen​

I agree that it won't be a sea change for many owners but for real...I definitely want and strongly am attached to TKD as a Olympic sport too. Plus WTF and ITF would reaaalllly start sniping with each other absent the Olympics.

 

[mastercole]

I agree that it won't be a sea change for many owners but for real...I definitely want and strongly am attached to TKD as a Olympic sport too. Plus WTF and ITF would reaaalllly start sniping with each other absent the Olympics.

Where do you see that WTF ever "snipped" at ITF?

 

[ATACX GYM]

Where do you see that WTF ever "snipped" at ITF?

Uh-oh. Lemme backpedal a bit.


I am notoriously apolitical when it comes to martial arts. I do, however, have quite a few friends who are part of either ITF or WTF and each alleges that the other has sniped at, or dissed in some way, their organization by doing such and such. Ohhh...they're not preserving the martial art of TKD and they're damaging it by making it into that floppy falling kicking sporty thing. Ohhhh those guys are closeminded neanderthals who'll get their heads kicked off because Olympians are STILL OLYMPIANS and can perform their techs just fine in a street fight thanks vs a bunch of non-Olympians who don't even know what's coming at them. Ohhhh this and ohhhh that.

I guess I flashed back to those conversations when I wrote that each organization or more accurately MEMBERS from each organization have voiced their disagreements about the other to me during conversations over the years. I don't have a horse in this race and I don't even fully recall the quotes because I kinda go mentally to Channel Fuzz when martial arts politics comes up.

so yeah, that's my position in reality mastercole.

 

[mastercole]

Uh-oh. Lemme backpedal a bit.


I am notoriously apolitical when it comes to martial arts. I do, however, have quite a few friends who are part of either ITF or WTF and each alleges that the other has sniped at, or dissed in some way, their organization by doing such and such. Ohhh...they're not preserving the martial art of TKD and they're damaging it by making it into that floppy falling kicking sporty thing. Ohhhh those guys are closeminded neanderthals who'll get their heads kicked off because Olympians are STILL OLYMPIANS and can perform their techs just fine in a street fight thanks vs a bunch of non-Olympians who don't even know what's coming at them. Ohhhh this and ohhhh that.

I guess I flashed back to those conversations when I wrote that each organization or more accurately MEMBERS from each organization have voiced their disagreements about the other to me during conversations over the years. I don't have a horse in this race and I don't even fully recall the quotes because I kinda go mentally to Channel Fuzz when martial arts politics comes up.

so yeah, that's my position in reality mastercole.

Thanks for your reply. I was not questioning your position. And of course we are all apolitical until someone is trying to kill us, then it gets real political all of a sudden

My question was intended to point out the the WTF publishes or makes no statements in regards to the ITF, and never has. There was never any conflict between the WTF and the ITF. The ITF only states there is a conflict and some naive people are brainwashed by it, or, if they are not naive, they simply support this North Korean propaganda.

To clarify, the so-called conflict (attacks) are one sided, they come from the North Korean Terrorist. What we have learned from CHOI Hong Hi's son is that there exist the North Korean terrorist and propaganda agency called the United Front Department. He states that ITF became a tool of this department in 1979, and the ITF, his father CHOI Hong Hi's private business, began receiving over the years 10's of millions of dollars. The ITF was used by this United Front Department to spread propaganda against, and damage South Korea's #1 export to the world, Taekwondo, and by extension cause great harm to the USA's Cold War effort. This propaganda designed by North Korea's United Front Department consisted of statements like "The martial art found in South Korea today is a bastardized version of the original", "Taekwondo today in South Korea has lost it's martial arts nature and has become just a sport", "Kukkiwon was built with South Korean (and American) government funds", "CHOI Hong Hi is the founder of Taekwondo", etc and so on.

The ITF even trained North Korean assassins and terrorist who murderer individuals, blew up a jumbo jet in flight in 1987 killing hundreds of innocent men, women and children, and so on, and so on.

This 10's of millions of dollars was spent wisely by North Korea, using CHOI Hong Hi's ITF as it's #1 agent against South Korea and it's Ally the United States. It was so effective that even today, we have Americans, and even some Koreans, among others who repeat this propaganda. Now most I assume probably do not know the true history, roots and intent of this propaganda and are merely victims of it, however, some who are now aware that this is a department of terrorism's propaganda still repeat it.

Even with all this, the WTF still makes no statement in regard to the ITF.

 

[puunui]

Even with all this, the WTF still makes no statement in regard to the ITF.

And not only that, tries its best to welcome ITF members into both the WTF competition world as well as the Kukkiwon world. Many ITF members or former members have become competitors, coaches, and leaders within kukki taekwondo. GM KIM Bong Sik, a former ITF member who used to lead teams to Vietnam, was a Past WTF Secretary General. Dr. YANG Dong Ja took a team to the first ITF World Championships in 1974, and in 1978 Dr. Yang was elected as President of the USTU and later President of PATU.

 

[SPX]

I believe he was referring more to the way that individual practitioners have take shots at those on the other side.

Here's something I found on a random website that I feel illustrates at least some TKDists positions on both sides of the fence:


ITF assessment of WTF stylists:

All they do is fancy foot and legwork with a lot of sound. No real power. Everything is geared to competition and tournaments. No spiritual arts, and a lot of good foot techniques such as twisting front kick(a kick that springs up from a standing position both feet facing forward, foot is twisted inwards and kicked up towards the opponents nosebridge at an angle)are lost, and everything is competition oriented. The practicality of the martial arts is lost for speed and points in tournaments. Upper body and hand movements are not emphasized nor does it call for hitting/striking the face/head as in real fighting, or close range when someone is tackled. Thus the students are only skilled in playing tag points . No real practical value in actual fighting. The head of WTF is not a TKD practitioner but a bureaucratic figurehead which is why WTF certificates are signed Dr. Un Young Kim. He has neither demonstrated nor taught TKD. The WTF patterns are of no aesthetic value, it is just a breakdown mix and match of ITF forms. No beauty in forms. Taekwondo? Gaekwondo is more like it.(Note: Gae is dog in Korean, loosely translated, it means dog pawing ).


WTF assessment of ITF stylists:

Outdated and limited kicking techniques taught by old masters that have no practical application & imagination for WTF sparring. Non contact or light contact pussyfooters -because one is conditioned to fight non-contact or light contact, they get blown away in real hard full contact sparring situations. Impractical sparring moves-eg. blocking instead of dodging. Moves are too slow for practicality and vulnerable. (e.g. plain wheel kick, where the heel is turned in an arc towards the opponent s head by turning back without hooking at the knee ). Too low and wide stances that slows down each movement and telegraphs your move. No power nor speed in moves. No efficient aerial kick techniques that require high skill which can be devastating,. No innovations or development in their moves. Thus the students have limited skills. ITF TKD? Gimme a break.

 

[mastercole]

I believe he was referring more to the way that individual practitioners have take shots at those on the other side.

Here's something I found on a random website that I feel illustrates at least some TKDists positions on both sides of the fence:


ITF assessment of WTF stylists:

All they do is fancy foot and legwork with a lot of sound. No real power. Everything is geared to competition and tournaments. No spiritual arts, and a lot of good foot techniques such as twisting front kick(a kick that springs up from a standing position both feet facing forward, foot is twisted inwards and kicked up towards the opponents nosebridge at an angle)are lost, and everything is competition oriented. The practicality of the martial arts is lost for speed and points in tournaments. Upper body and hand movements are not emphasized nor does it call for hitting/striking the face/head as in real fighting, or close range when someone is tackled. Thus the students are only skilled in playing tag points . No real practical value in actual fighting. The head of WTF is not a TKD practitioner but a bureaucratic figurehead which is why WTF certificates are signed Dr. Un Young Kim. He has neither demonstrated nor taught TKD. The WTF patterns are of no aesthetic value, it is just a breakdown mix and match of ITF forms. No beauty in forms. Taekwondo? Gaekwondo is more like it.(Note: Gae is dog in Korean, loosely translated, it means dog pawing ).


WTF assessment of ITF stylists:

Outdated and limited kicking techniques taught by old masters that have no practical application & imagination for WTF sparring. Non contact or light contact pussyfooters -because one is conditioned to fight non-contact or light contact, they get blown away in real hard full contact sparring situations. Impractical sparring moves-eg. blocking instead of dodging. Moves are too slow for practicality and vulnerable. (e.g. plain wheel kick, where the heel is turned in an arc towards the opponent s head by turning back without hooking at the knee ). Too low and wide stances that slows down each movement and telegraphs your move. No power nor speed in moves. No efficient aerial kick techniques that require high skill which can be devastating,. No innovations or development in their moves. Thus the students have limited skills. ITF TKD? Gimme a break.

The WTF never made that assessment.

Again, never any official comments from the WTF.

What you posted might possibly be persons who compete in WTF events arguing against the propaganda from North Korea's United Front Department. It's not a debate between ITF and WTF, no debate has ever existed.

 

[SPX]

Well that's why I said he's probably referring to the back-and-forth "sniping" of individual practitioners. . .

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Thanks for your reply. I was not questioning your position. And of course we are all apolitical until someone is trying to kill us, then it gets real political all of a sudden

My question was intended to point out the the WTF publishes or makes no statements in regards to the ITF, and never has. There was never any conflict between the WTF and the ITF. The ITF only states there is a conflict and some naive people are brainwashed by it, or, if they are not naive, they simply support this North Korean propaganda.

To clarify, the so-called conflict (attacks) are one sided, they come from the North Korean Terrorist. What we have learned from CHOI Hong Hi's son is that there exist the North Korean terrorist and propaganda agency called the United Front Department. He states that ITF became a tool of this department in 1979, and the ITF, his father CHOI Hong Hi's private business, began receiving over the years 10's of millions of dollars. The ITF was used by this United Front Department to spread propaganda against, and damage South Korea's #1 export to the world, Taekwondo, and by extension cause great harm to the USA's Cold War effort. This propaganda designed by North Korea's United Front Department consisted of statements like "The martial art found in South Korea today is a bastardized version of the original", "Taekwondo today in South Korea has lost it's martial arts nature and has become just a sport", "Kukkiwon was built with South Korean (and American) government funds", "CHOI Hong Hi is the founder of Taekwondo", etc and so on.

The ITF even trained North Korean assassins and terrorist who murderer individuals, blew up a jumbo jet in flight in 1987 killing hundreds of innocent men, women and children, and so on, and so on.

This 10's of millions of dollars was spent wisely by North Korea, using CHOI Hong Hi's ITF as it's #1 agent against South Korea and it's Ally the United States. It was so effective that even today, we have Americans, and even some Koreans, among others who repeat this propaganda. Now most I assume probably do not know the true history, roots and intent of this propaganda and are merely victims of it, however, some who are now aware that this is a department of terrorism's propaganda still repeat it.

Even with all this, the WTF still makes no statement in regard to the ITF.

Those are some very strong accusations. Can you verify that? Because some might suggest such a broad attack to be libelous.

 

[mastercole]

Those are some very strong accusations. Can you verify that? Because some might suggest such a broad attack to be libelous.

They are not accusations, they are facts, and it's all available on the internet from authoritative sources via biographical statements from the terrorist who actually murdered those people, and from CHOI Hong Hi's own son, who is also listed by name in a publication titled the "Terrorist List." I take it you have not yet read any of this?

 

[Tez3]

They are not accusations, they are facts, and it's all available on the internet from authoritative sources via biographical statements from the terrorist who actually murdered those people, and from CHOI Hong Hi's own son, who is also listed by name in a publication titled the "Terrorist List." I take it you have not yet read any of this?

Can you give us some links? They still look like allegations unless the so called authorative sources are impeccable, impartial and legal. I can't find any mention on Google of any publication called 'The Terrorist List', if there were one that had any authority it would be in our office. We have no Korean terrorist groups on our lists at present.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public...d-terror-groups/proscribed-groups?view=Binary

Looking through terrorist lists I can find no mention of any North Korean terrorist group that is associated with any TKD group, there certainly are terrorist groups though I imagine being state sponsored they don't see themselves like that. No mentions of TKD or ITF at all.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7605935.stm

This BBC story gives a different version in that North Korean agents infiltrated the ITF. That's not the same as the ITF being the terrorist organisation, if it had been a terrorist organisation trained and organised by the North Koreans they would hardly have had to infiltrate it would they? My money is on the BBC version being correct.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

They are not accusations, they are facts, and it's all available on the internet from authoritative sources via biographical statements from the terrorist who actually murdered those people, and from CHOI Hong Hi's own son, who is also listed by name in a publication titled the "Terrorist List." I take it you have not yet read any of this?

I've got FoxNews to read for the obscure and bizarre stuff. So, for stuff like this, credible and verifiable works. Some anonymous guy on a weblog, not so much. Your reply didn't really say anything despite the amount of words used. Your claims run the risk of putting this site and myself at some potential risk, so when someone posts something like that, I'm inclined to demand actual proof be posted or lean towards removing the problem entirely.

 

[Tez3]

Allegations along these lines are very serious, there's implications for the ITF in the UK who are recognised by Sport England and other government sponsored organisations, if allegations of terrorism are to fly around there would be unpleasant consequences I imagine.

 

[mastercole]

I've got FoxNews to read for the obscure and bizarre stuff. So, for stuff like this, credible and verifiable works. Some anonymous guy on a weblog, not so much. Your reply didn't really say anything despite the amount of words used. Your claims run the risk of putting this site and myself at some potential risk, so when someone posts something like that, I'm inclined to demand actual proof be posted or lean towards removing the problem entirely.

I agree, I certainly don't want to put the site at risk. Please see the new thread for verifiable works.

 

[ATACX GYM]

I believe he was referring more to the way that individual practitioners have take shots at those on the other side.

Here's something I found on a random website that I feel illustrates at least some TKDists positions on both sides of the fence:


ITF assessment of WTF stylists:

All they do is fancy foot and legwork with a lot of sound. No real power. Everything is geared to competition and tournaments. No spiritual arts, and a lot of good foot techniques such as twisting front kick(a kick that springs up from a standing position both feet facing forward, foot is twisted inwards and kicked up towards the opponents nosebridge at an angle)are lost, and everything is competition oriented. The practicality of the martial arts is lost for speed and points in tournaments. Upper body and hand movements are not emphasized nor does it call for hitting/striking the face/head as in real fighting, or close range when someone is tackled. Thus the students are only skilled in playing tag points . No real practical value in actual fighting. The head of WTF is not a TKD practitioner but a bureaucratic figurehead which is why WTF certificates are signed Dr. Un Young Kim. He has neither demonstrated nor taught TKD. The WTF patterns are of no aesthetic value, it is just a breakdown mix and match of ITF forms. No beauty in forms. Taekwondo? Gaekwondo is more like it.(Note: Gae is dog in Korean, loosely translated, it means dog pawing ).


WTF assessment of ITF stylists:

Outdated and limited kicking techniques taught by old masters that have no practical application & imagination for WTF sparring. Non contact or light contact pussyfooters -because one is conditioned to fight non-contact or light contact, they get blown away in real hard full contact sparring situations. Impractical sparring moves-eg. blocking instead of dodging. Moves are too slow for practicality and vulnerable. (e.g. plain wheel kick, where the heel is turned in an arc towards the opponent s head by turning back without hooking at the knee ). Too low and wide stances that slows down each movement and telegraphs your move. No power nor speed in moves. No efficient aerial kick techniques that require high skill which can be devastating,. No innovations or development in their moves. Thus the students have limited skills. ITF TKD? Gimme a break.

This is exactly what I meant...and I don't want to stir up any political beehives. Let's keep with the reality that comes from the mat, the ring, and the street. Political information is crucial and necessary but it may be a serious contributor to thread drift...

 

[mastercole]

This is exactly what I meant...and I don't want to stir up any political beehives. Let's keep with the reality that comes from the mat, the ring, and the street. Political information is crucial and necessary but it may be a serious contributor to thread drift...

A new thread started, go check it out.

 

[Tez3]

Starting a new thread in the same vein doesn't exactly safeguard Bob and MT does it? All it stops is thread drift.

 

[TaekwonPRO]

Next year will be quite an important year for the Taekwondo community. The IOC will be making decisions whether to keep Taekwondo as an Olympic sport. We have to brace ourselves and be ready to the possibility that Taekwondo won’t be part of the Olympic Games after 2016. And should that happen, how will this affect us?As a Taekwondo school owner, I don’t think there’s any effect at all. People who have started training with me don’t care at all if we are an Olympic sport or not.

Taekwondo is also very small in our country so we don’t get much publicity. We might get some if someone is fighting at the Olympics. But so far, we haven’t won any medals so big for media to show any interest.But for me, personally, it would be very sad if we are not part of the Olympics. But like I mentioned earlier, it won’t have any effect on my own training or how I operate my school.

The national federations might be a different story though. In some countries, I suspect that they will get less money from their national Olympic committees and that will surely have a negative effect on their operations.Is being in the Olympic Games necessary for us?Well, not for individual schools. But for the national federations, it is quite important because of the money and status. But for people like me who are focusing more on “average” Taekwondo students, everything will stay the same. So it really doesn’t matter if we are on the Olympics or not.

But what do you think?

Yours,

Markku Parviainen​

The Philippines just gave a massive government grant to Taekwondo and Boxing for Olympic purposes, though....I don't think they're too worried.