You might disagree but I think this is great news

[Tez3]

Tez3....Why would I have to prove anything to you!!!!

And why would I apologize to anyone on this BBS!!!!!!!! It appears that you have the same opinion!!!! Olympic Sport TKD Sucks !!!!! They can't fight!!!!!! It is very hard to tell the difference between posts....I don't disparage what you do I very much admire all the martial arts....I admire the SD aspect and the sport aspect of martial arts...I much prefer the Self Defense aspects of Martial Arts....My kids do sport tkd and I have become a fan...

You may not disparage what I do but plenty of people do because they think what I do is the Olympic TKD.

ATC, so it's alright because it's on the British Olympic site? The WTF web address is also on the same page so I assume they approve of what was written. As I've said a few times now British perception of Olympic TKD and TKD as a whole has been badly damaged by the goings on at the Olympics. It seems that the British competitors who were in Beijing may not even be looking to compete in London, their home crowd, because of what went on there. Confidence in it as a sport has been damaged, it's not as though it was just one incident, there were many.

This is the kick that left the Chinese girls mouth cut and bruised but the judges 'missed.

"As a capacity crowd at the Beijing science and technology gym deliriously celebrated their heroine’s win, tearful Stevenson was inconsolable."

Yes it was overturned and oh the criticism of the British team for that! They went against an agreement seemingly that TKD don't question the judging but this was the second British competitor to have had this happen and enough was enough the British team spoke up and have been damned for it but they were doing the right thing. It didn't only happen to the British either, even the commentators here who weren't MA could see things were wrong.

Sorry no, for many things Olympic TKD has lost all credibility with the public as well as many martial artists. We could perhaps overlook the 'dancing' but to have it described as SD and the 'total' art and then have crorrupt judging is too much. TKD is a great art with great people doing it but this does them a huge disservice.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Perhaps it would be if fencing rules favored striking at the toes...

Only one of the three fencing weapons allows this, and it receives the least attention of the three. Foil and Sabre are both subjected to the Ed Sullivan treatment: nothing below the waist. Only Epee allows strikes below the waist. Foil is torso only and sabre is anything from the waist up except the back of the head.

In any case, my analogy was less of a comparison of technique than it is a comparison of the direction of the sport and its deviation from classical practice.

Indeed. Since it has left behind any traces of a traditional system it would be better if it took a more appropriate name too, like RythmicHeadKicking.

I have heard Tae-do suggested here, but a name change is highly unlikely. The major shortcoming is that the olympics does not have a poomsae section for Taekwondo. Regular WTF tournaments have sparring, poomsae, and breaking, so the whole of the art is better represented.

Yeah, we want more of that don`t we? Public perception: not only do they play a kid`s game but they behave like kids too.

That was kind of my point, thus the sarcasm of my comment.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

You may not disparage what I do but plenty of people do because they think what I do is the Olympic TKD.

ATC, so it's alright because it's on the British Olympic site? The WTF web address is also on the same page so I assume they approve of what was written. As I've said a few times now British perception of Olympic TKD and TKD as a whole has been badly damaged by the goings on at the Olympics. It seems that the British competitors who were in Beijing may not even be looking to compete in London, their home crowd, because of what went on there. Confidence in it as a sport has been damaged, it's not as though it was just one incident, there were many.

This is the kick that left the Chinese girls mouth cut and bruised but the judges 'missed.

"As a capacity crowd at the Beijing science and technology gym deliriously celebrated their heroine’s win, tearful Stevenson was inconsolable."

Yes it was overturned and oh the criticism of the British team for that! They went against an agreement seemingly that TKD don't question the judging but this was the second British competitor to have had this happen and enough was enough the British team spoke up and have been damned for it but they were doing the right thing. It didn't only happen to the British either, even the commentators here who weren't MA could see things were wrong.

Sorry no, for many things Olympic TKD has lost all credibility with the public as well as many martial artists. We could perhaps overlook the 'dancing' but to have it described as SD and the 'total' art and then have crorrupt judging is too much. TKD is a great art with great people doing it but this does them a huge disservice.

As I recall, Taekwondo was not the only sport that suffered from judging biases in the 2008 olympics. And in any case, much of what you describe has more to do with the olympics being corrupt in general than with sport taekwondo. Remember the figure skating scandal a few years back? This nonsense is pervasive in the olympics.

Honestly, my main opposition to taekwondo being in the olympics is the IOC. The olympics are nothing more than nationalistic bragadocio, political grandstanding, favor trading, bribery, and graft with athletes distracting the general public from the corrupt and shameful goings on.

Daniel

 

[d1jinx]

What did you expect they had to give the home town team a win. Its no different in TKD than any other sport. I watched a boxing match last weekend between Juan Diaz and Pauli Malignaggi and it was no different. It was a close fight but I had Malignaggi winning the fight as well did Harold Ledderman. But Diaz won. This wasnt the issue. Like I said it was a close fight. The issue was the scores. UNBELIEVABLE. 2 of the judges were from Texas and guess what... they had the fight no where close with Diaz winning by a landslide. Even the commentators were saying how ridiculous it was.

HBO:
Diaz was fighting before a hometown crowd and, as Malignaggi had feared, that might have been the difference.

In closing the curtain on an entertaining HBO Boxing After Dark tripleheader, Diaz (35-2, 17 KOs) pulled out a 12-round unanimous decision that put the three-time former lightweight champion back on track in pursuit of another world title.

Malignaggi (26-3, 5 KOs) reacted to the decision with an obscenity-laced post-fight interview. The Brooklyn fighter had protested the choice of two Texas judges - Raul Caiz Sr. and Gale Van Hoy -- before the fight and he was even more convinced the deck was stacked against him afterward.

David Sutherland, from Oklahoma, scored it 116-112 for Diaz, while Caiz and Van Hoy had it 115-113 and 118-110.

"I knew I was going to have to deal with this," Malignaggi said. "I thought I outboxed him but I got robbed. This state never gives a fair shake to anybody fighting hometown fighters."

Pauli Blasted Boxing and the Judges saying " Boxing is a bunch of bulls***" "I hate boxing"... " This wasnt a sore looser speaking this was a person who had every right to think that way and I am glad someone finally spoke out about it on live TV during the fight. He didnt hold back and he was right. The judging is corrupt...
Boxing has been BS for years and it needs to change.

And guess what... he's screwed because they will Blackball him... he wont get any big fights or money, shame to, he's fun to watch.

I guess my point is.....
unfair judging and favortism isn't just in TKD... it probably more rememberable because an event that big is only happens once every 4 years and only to a very small select few....

But corruption is everywhere. I'm glad the Brits spoke out about the match at the olympics... good for you guys...

 

[Tez3]

The perception is that many sports in the Olympics are 'dodgy' if not down right dishonest but while the principle should worry us all it's the fact that TKD is closer to home for many of us that causes us to worry more. The skating scandals shouldn't affect how people see martial arts but the fact is that in the UK at least the Olympic goings on in TKD have adversely portrayed TKD and by association the rest of martial arts here.

I wouldn't expect a 'home team win' to be the priority of judges. I would expect more integrity and honesty from martial artists. Naive perhaps but surely not totally unrealistic.

I think the British team may pay dearly yet for their objection, they've broken agreements and we'll have to see how that pans out.

 

[miguksaram]

I am pretty neutral on the subject.

So long as those who train strictly for sport are made aware that it is a sport and not misled into thinking that they are getting practical SD, no harm no foul.

Since this thread is just basicly turning into the likes of almost all other threads on here. I'd thought I'd ask the standard question to a statement like this.

Since boxing is a sport would you say boxing is not practical self defense? How about wrestling (no not the WWF)?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Since this thread is just basicly turning into the likes of almost all other threads on here. I'd thought I'd ask the standard question to a statement like this.

Since boxing is a sport would you say boxing is not practical self defense? How about wrestling (no not the WWF)?

Boxing, MMA, wrestling, and WTF sport taekwondo are all sports who's skills have some application in SD but are not SD in and of themselves. None of the above contain techniques for dealing with armed attackers and each eliminates a specified portion of attacks that are practical against an attacker but would be inappropriate in a sports context.

WTF sport TKD differs from boxing, MMA, and wrestling in that it focuses on a skill set (high kicking) that is not intuitive for most people and which is generally considered a no-no in practical SD. A boxer, for example, will not lose a degree of footing in the act of throwing punches, nor will the boxer open up their groin area with a punch the way that one does with a high kick.

A high kick, timed well, and used appropriately can end an attack very nicely, so to say that WTF sport TKD has no skills that can be used in SD would be inaccurate. Also, WTF sport TKD incorporates dodging and blocking, both of which are useful for self protection. Lastly, it requires a level of conditioning that is likewise helpful in surviving an attack. What few punches are involved in WTF rules are ones that can be executed without major injury to one's hands, as all of them are torso punches, ideally to the solar plexus.

In fact, the biggest no-no that a victim can do is to not fight back. If the victim fights, even if they are untrained, they increase their chances of survival. A sport TKDist coming out of the gate at an unarmed mugger as if he or she were in the final round of the grand championships would probably scare scare the would be mugger into soiling himself.

But it is still a sport and if that is what you train for, you are not training for SD. If you train for SD in addition to sport, so much the better.

Daniel

 

[miguksaram]

WTF sport TKD differs from boxing, MMA, and wrestling in that it focuses on a skill set (high kicking) that is not intuitive for most people and which is generally considered a no-no in practical SD. A boxer, for example, will not lose a degree of footing in the act of throwing punches, nor will the boxer open up their groin area with a punch the way that one does with a high kick.

While I can agree that high kicking is not practical, who said that you had to kick high all the time? If I train myself to do high kicking, then wouldn't it be suffice to say that I can throw that same kick just as fast, if not faster, to a lower target with just as much, if not more, power?

I guess my point is that boxing, MMA, TKD or Judo may not be an end all be all type of SD, and they all have their pros and cons about them, but they can be used for SD. There was a statement I read earlier, I forget who posted it, that eluded that sport TKD fighters can not fight well outside their sport.

While it may be true for some, to say that as a blanket statement about all TKD fighters is incorrect. Just becuase some do not choose to fight in different venues or on the streeet doesn't mean they can't.

 

[ATC]

You may not disparage what I do but plenty of people do because they think what I do is the Olympic TKD.

I am sure that there are some that think this just as some think TMA and MMA are the same and vice a versa. But to tell you the truth Olympic TKD does not get that much attention to really make a difference. I bet more people think that TKD and MMA are more alike. Most people don't even now what TKD or that TKD is even a MA. Just about every person that comes by the dojang states something like this, "Look Billy, they are doing Karate". Or you may hear this, "So how long have you been doing Karate". I really just think you are focusing too much on nothing. Yeah you may have gotten a few off remarks or comments but I bet you have also have gotten much more in your favor because of other MA's as well.

ATC, so it's alright because it's on the British Olympic site? The WTF web address is also on the same page so I assume they approve of what was written.

My comment was in jest.

As I've said a few times now British perception of Olympic TKD and TKD as a whole has been badly damaged by the goings on at the Olympics. It seems that the British competitors who were in Beijing may not even be looking to compete in London, their home crowd, because of what went on there. Confidence in it as a sport has been damaged, it's not as though it was just one incident, there were many.

Well the British need to suck it up. If they got there knickers all in a bunch because of some suspect judging at one event then maybe they don't need to compete at the next Olympics. What happened to them has happened to many others, many times over. Be mad for awhile then get over it. Use the experience to make you better. Knock out your opponent next time and take it out of the judge’s hands. Hell, my kid was robbed at a few events. Once where the table judge (the TA as they are called) came and apologized to me personally. But there was nothing that he could do to change things. As they say "**** happens" The British need to get over it.

This is the kick that left the Chinese girls mouth cut and bruised but the judges 'missed.

**** happens. Do you know how the scoring system works in a TKD match. You have to have minimum of 3 out of 4 judges all press a button with in 1 second. So that means that if you get all 4 judges seeing the point but for some reason 2 press the button for that point and then 1 second later the other 2 press for the same point, guess what?, no point. Now the center ref if he sees the point can stop the match and call all the judges to the center and ask only this question, did you see (color) score? He cannot ask did you see (color) score with an ax kick, or a roundhouse or whatever. He can only ask did you see (color) score. If only 2 of the 4 say they saw it then, no point. If 3 of 4 or all saw it, then the point(s) are given. Even if the center ref saw the point clearly, but 2 of the 4 corner judges did not see it, then there is no point given, regardless if it actually scored. Messed up I know. But those are the rules. Now the center ref can override the corner judges if he likes, but that will never happen.

So again "**** happens". It is time to get over it.

"As a capacity crowd at the Beijing science and technology gym deliriously celebrated their heroine’s win, tearful Stevenson was inconsolable."

Yes it was overturned and oh the criticism of the British team for that! They went against an agreement seemingly that TKD don't question the judging but this was the second British competitor to have had this happen and enough was enough the British team spoke up and have been damned for it but they were doing the right thing. It didn't only happen to the British either, even the commentators here who weren't MA could see things were wrong.

Ditto what I stated directly above this. Also I am glad to see the protest process worked. It got overturned. That is why there is a protest process. And in the case it worked. So what's your beef? Just because 99 people out of 100 see something, it may be that 1 that did not see it responsibility to see. Guess what he blinked and missed it. Be glad that they have a protest process, which is what it is for.

Look, this crying and blaming one Olympics for all the wrong in a sport is crazy. It happens to everyone. I am positive that there is not one competitor in TKD that has not be robbed of a win by bad judging, not one. Get over it. It really sounds like a bunch of whining.

Sorry no, for many things Olympic TKD has lost all credibility with the public as well as many martial artists. We could perhaps overlook the 'dancing' but to have it described as SD and the 'total' art and then have crorrupt judging is too much. TKD is a great art with great people doing it but this does them a huge disservice.

Not true or there would be no one still doing it. Maybe for you but there are still way too many that enjoy it and want it for your statements to be true. 180+ countries with enough people doing and watching WTF rules TKD to prove you wrong. I am sorry but your statement is only true for you and some not all.

 

[miguksaram]

What happened to them has happened to many others, many times over. Be mad for awhile then get over it. Use the experience to make you better.

Sensei Sharkey has always told us that when you enter a tournament you have to see the invisible sign on the door that says "All judges are idiots", then smile and go enjoy yourself. We teach are students that you have to put it all on the table and what happens, happens. As long as you did your best that is all you can do within your control.

In the end, both you and your opponent knows who really won regardless what the judges say.

 

[d1jinx]

In the end, both you and your opponent knows who really won regardless what the judges say.

I agree with what you said.... but surprisingly some people really think they won... even when they didnt. what world do they live in? probably the same one as the ref's

 

[Tez3]

ATC, you really make me laugh you know with your suck it up nonsense.
If you don't know what 'my beef' is by now clearly I must really need to spell it out.
Oh the British really need to suck it do they and you justify it by saying it happens all the time...! Well, there's an indictment of your sport. I really need to say no more need I? Cheating then is endemic in the Olympic sport of TKD.

Blaming the Olympics is totally correct as in the real world TKD is a damn good martial art, only in the Olympics has it been bastardised.

Knowing who 'really won' doesn't cut it when you are representing your country which has put a big investment into you, when your families have given blood sweat and tears so you can train to get to the Olympics and medals added to your countries total are a matter for national pride. Harsh but true.

What does saying all judges are idiots do for the image of your sport?

People here aren't stupid, they know the difference between TKD and MMA, what do you think we are a bunch of country yokels? And you'd be surprised how many actually know the difference between TKD and karate. We tend to advertise exactly what we do here not mix it up as TKD karate etc.

Btw us Brits don't wear 'panties'... such a twee word, women wear knickers, men wear pants or we go commando.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

While I can agree that high kicking is not practical, who said that you had to kick high all the time?

Never said that one would have to, but it only takes one attempt at a head shot to get your kicking leg grabbed your other leg swept. In reality, it takes only one mistake.

And since I was speaking specifically of the sport and the techniques therein, you are kicking high all the time; there are no valid targets below the waist. Just to clarify, I consider anything above the waist to be a high kick in an SD scenario.

If I train myself to do high kicking, then wouldn't it be suffice to say that I can throw that same kick just as fast, if not faster, to a lower target with just as much, if not more, power?

Yes, but I was not evaluating what an individual may or may not do. I was evaluating the sport. I could give a 'yeah, but I do this...' answer for boxing, wrestling and MMA too, but at that point, we are no longer discussing the sport, but what individual athletes do outside of it.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I guess my point is that boxing, MMA, TKD or Judo may not be an end all be all type of SD, and they all have their pros and cons about them, but they can be used for SD. There was a statement I read earlier, I forget who posted it, that eluded that sport TKD fighters can not fight well outside their sport.

I think that it depends on the fighter. Some do, some do not. Same with boxers, judoka, MMA-ist, or whatever.

While it may be true for some, to say that as a blanket statement about all TKD fighters is incorrect. Just becuase some do not choose to fight in different venues or on the streeet doesn't mean they can't.

I think that this notion comes from the high degree of specialization in kicks, specifically high kicks and the relative lack of hand techniques combined with the much ballyhooed low guard.

The thought is that you fight like you train and if you are highly competative in your sport, more than 90% of your training is going to be spent training in your sport, not in related studies or crosstraining.

While this line of reasoning has some truth to it, I do not completely subscribe to it. I feel as you do, that a skilled sport TKDist is capable of adapting to other situations and taking advanatage of targets that would normally be off limits. Certainly, the kicking ability is definitely there and is solid. Hand techniques may be lacking, but if a sport TKDist is very good at the ones he does have, mainly blocks and straight punches, then he or she is likely better equipped than they get credit for.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

While I can agree that high kicking is not practical, who said that you had to kick high all the time? If I train myself to do high kicking, then wouldn't it be suffice to say that I can throw that same kick just as fast, if not faster, to a lower target with just as much, if not more, power?

A lot of people seem to share this opinion. I do not. Consider the knee vs. the head. The contact surface of each target is shaped differently and is of different size and different vantage point from a person facing another straight on. It seems obvious to me that your kicking method will therefore also be different.

You get good at what you practice. If you want to be competent at kicking the head, practice kicking the head. If you want to be good at hitting a knee, practice kicking the knee. Or do both. But don't think that just because you are good at hitting the head, that means you are good elsewhere. That's a fallacy.

 

[ATC]

ATC, you really make me laugh you know with your suck it up nonsense.
If you don't know what 'my beef' is by now clearly I must really need to spell it out.

I do understand your beef but just don't think it is as relivant as you think. If everyone coming into your studio is thinking that what you do is Olympic TKD then the sport is really being marketed well. But we all know that there is hardly any marketing for TKD as a whole let alone Olympic TKD. I just don't think what you are building up is really there.

Oh the British really need to suck it do they and you justify it by saying it happens all the time...! Well, there's an indictment of your sport. I really need to say no more need I? Cheating then is endemic in the Olympic sport of TKD.

Yes, they need to suck it up. Cheating goes on in every sport. Boxing, Football, Hockey, Basketball...you name it. Refs make bad calls all the time. Even when it is obvious that the call was bad. You don't see people over reacting by saying that the sport is no good and it needs to be done away with because of it. No they cuss the ref. Or they cuss the corruption not the sport. But they get over it and play the next week too. And the spectators watch the next week as well.

Blaming the Olympics is totally correct as in the real world TKD is a damn good martial art, only in the Olympics has it been bastardised.

Hate to tell you this...but the sport was around before it was in the Olympics. The Olympics did not create the sport.

Knowing who 'really won' doesn't cut it when you are representing your country which has put a big investment into you, when your families have given blood sweat and tears so you can train to get to the Olympics and medals added to your countries total are a matter for national pride. Harsh but true.

Hey this has been happening for years across all sports and to all nations at one time or another. The british are not the only ones. You can dwell on it or you can get over it and move on. You have that choice. I bet there are still British TKD practitioners still practicing for the next Olympics. Bet they are not sitting in there tears wasting energy crying over someting that is over. If anything they will use that as motivation to help make them better. Not quit the sport.

What does saying all judges are idiots do for the image of your sport?

Who said that? Who said all judges that judge TKD are idiots? It only takes one. Look at what I wrote about how a match is judged. You need 3 out of 4 to all score togeather. Well have just one so called idiot judge and it makes it hard. 2 can see one may be out of position to see and the one idiot keeps the judging at 2 out of 4. No point. You clearly have 3 good judges but having just one bad one make it a all or nothing game.

People here aren't stupid, they know the difference between TKD and MMA, what do you think we are a bunch of country yokels? And you'd be surprised how many actually know the difference between TKD and karate. We tend to advertise exactly what we do here not mix it up as TKD karate etc.

There are stupid people all around. Yes people are stupid, here as well as there, everywhere.

Btw us Brits don't wear 'panties'... such a twee word, women wear knickers, men wear pants or we go commando.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[mango.man]

You find me an Olympic sport, that is scored / judged by humans, that has never had accusations of cheating / corrupt judging by the humans in charge of scoring.

Judging in TKD is near perfect when compared to arguably the 2 biggest Olympic sports, Gymnastics and Figure Skating. Yet those 2 sports forge ahead and the athletes that participate in them keep training for their shot at Olympic gold.

TKD and it's athletes should do the same. If you get screwed over, be angry at the time and then use that emotion to push yourself to train harder for your next major event. Eventually you do have to get over it and move on. I am not saying forget that it happened. Use it as a motivator though.

 

[Tez3]

I do understand your beef but just don't think it is as relivant as you think. If everyone coming into your studio is thinking that what you do is Olympic TKD then the sport is really being marketed well. But we all know that there is hardly any marketing for TKD as a whole let alone Olympic TKD. I just don't think what you are building up is really there.


Yes, they need to suck it up. Cheating goes on in every sport. Boxing, Football, Hockey, Basketball...you name it. Refs make bad calls all the time. Even when it is obvious that the call was bad. You don't see people over reacting by saying that the sport is no good and it needs to be done away with because of it. No they cuss the ref. Or they cuss the corruption not the sport. But they get over it and play the next week too. And the spectators watch the next week as well.


Hate to tell you this...but the sport was around before it was in the Olympics. The Olympics did not create the sport.


Hey this has been happening for years across all sports and to all nations at one time or another. The british are not the only ones. You can dwell on it or you can get over it and move on. You have that choice. I bet there are still British TKD practitioners still practicing for the next Olympics. Bet they are not sitting in there tears wasting energy crying over someting that is over. If anything they will use that as motivation to help make them better. Not quit the sport.


Who said that? Who said all judges that judge TKD are idiots? It only takes one. Look at what I wrote about how a match is judged. You need 3 out of 4 to all score togeather. Well have just one so called idiot judge and it makes it hard. 2 can see one may be out of position to see and the one idiot keeps the judging at 2 out of 4. No point. You clearly have 3 good judges but having just one bad one make it a all or nothing game.


There are stupid people all around. Yes people are stupid.


Thanks for the clarification.

:idunno:You really don't read my posts do you? You haven't understood a word I've written because you have managed to miscontrue every sentence of mine. It really is pointless debating with you when you won't read or understand what I'm saying.
I'm not in the least crying over what happened to the British TKD team, I'd prefer they weren't there tbh, I find what passes for TKD in the Olympics to be an embarrassment, I merely pointed out the 'discrepancies' as an example of how disreputable the officals have appeared. You yourself have confirmed there is bad if not corrupt judging.
My opinion is that Olympic TKD is, as has been said before nothing more than dancing, thats why it should be taken out of the Olympics, and yes I do know TKD has been around longer but as a martial art not a gymnastic entertainment.

I don't have a studio (again a martial arts studio sounds twee), in fact, I know of no one who does, we have clubs, gyms or schools here.

As for all judges being thought of as idiots .......
Quote from miguksaram -Sensei Sharkey has always told us that when you enter a tournament you have to see the invisible sign on the door that says "All judges are idiots", then smile and go enjoy yourself. Unquote

 

[ATC]

:idunno:You really don't read my posts do you? You haven't understood a word I've written because you have managed to miscontrue every sentence of mine. It really is pointless debating with you when you won't read or understand what I'm saying.
I'm not in the least crying over what happened to the British TKD team, I'd prefer they weren't there tbh, I find what passes for TKD in the Olympics to be an embarrassment, I merely pointed out the 'discrepancies' as an example of how disreputable the officals have appeared. You yourself have confirmed there is bad if not corrupt judging.
My opinion is that Olympic TKD is, as has been said before nothing more than dancing, thats why it should be taken out of the Olympics, and yes I do know TKD has been around longer but as a martial art not a gymnastic entertainment.

I don't have a studio (again a martial arts studio sounds twee), in fact, I know of no one who does, we have clubs, gyms or schools here.

As for all judges being thought of as idiots .......
Quote from miguksaram -Sensei Sharkey has always told us that when you enter a tournament you have to see the invisible sign on the door that says "All judges are idiots", then smile and go enjoy yourself. Unquote

Tez, I do read your post and happen to agree with a few things that you have stated in some of them. It just happens that we disagree on a few points in this topic. Just because I counter argue your points with my own does not mean that I do not get what you are saying. I just disagree with them. I think that you want me to agree and that in turn would have you believe I understand you.

As for Olympic TKD being nothing more than dancing, I can only smile at the notion.

Studio, gym, club, school, all semantics.

As for miguksaram's comment, I took it as a figurative thing, not literal, but that's just me. I could be wrong.

 

[Tez3]

Tez, I do read your post and happen to agree with a few things that you have stated in some of them. It just happens that we disagree on a few points in this topic. Just because I counter argue your points with my own does not mean that I do not get what you are saying. I just disagree with them. I think that you want me to agree and that in turn would have you believe I understand you.

As for Olympic TKD being nothing more than dancing, I can only smile at the notion.

Studio, gym, club, school, all semantics.

As for miguksaram's comment, I took it as a figurative thing, not literal, but that's just me. I could be wrong.

You may think you are disagreeing with what I say but you are disagreeing with what you think I say.

Gym, club etc is not semantics, it's more a frame of reference. You wouldn't see MMAers poncing around in a studio. A studio also denotes a commercial enterprise where as many of us are in a martial arts club denoting a non commercial group of like minded people. We have different words for a purpose.