How long will Taekwondo stay in Olympic games?

[Cyriacus]

I was fortunate in that when I started tkd I joined a club in our local area that had a very good reputataion. At the time I didnt realise there was a 'sport' side and was just fortunate enough that the club I joined was very removed from the sport side. I have known people who havent been that lucky and realise after a couple of years training that what they are learning is very sport orientated not knowing there is a difference. It is hard for them after that period of time when they have forged good relationships and learnt a lot of curriculum and dont necessarilly want to go elsewhere and start from scratch. I also feel for people who train at clubs where the sport side has slowly become dominant over a long period of time and may have 10 years or more of training under their belt before they realise the school is going in a different direction than what they may have liked.

I think weve concluded this before, but I had the exact same Situation. Except that unfortunately, where I was Training ITF they started sliding downhill a bit. Also fortunately, I was able to notice the changes, and act instead of go with them.

And it pretty much worked out for the better.
For Me, anyway.

 

[msmitht]

Like I said b4:if you don't like it then leave your school and do something else. Try taI chi

 

[sopraisso]

I tell you, I would change my school. But I have no options. As far as I know, all schools in my city (and there are many) have been infected by the olympic virus. The one I train at is said to be the most martial-oriented one and, nevertheless, it's slowly but clearly come to be quite sport-oriented as well. It's not what I was looking for when I started out, and after time and sweat spent, bounds made, and achievements got, it feels so hard to just throw it away and try another martial art. Tai Chi? Haha, it doesn't sound bad at all, but maybe I'd try karate, in a less sport-oriented school. But I like taekwondo! Since I started, I dedicated myself, I learned probably much more than most people usually do at this point, just because I tried to search by myself. I wanted to be part of what I thought was taekwondo. And after all... It really feels sad to think I would give up on it, not because tkd is not ok, but just because there isn't in my city a school that teaches in a martial-oriented way. I'm talking about lack of options!
And you know what? Today it's really boring to have to explain that what we learn in my school isn't (at least not only) what is seen in the Olympics. I say there's punches, throws, joint locks, and that there's a real fight aspect in taekwondo. And honestly today I myself feel harder and harder to believe it, if I use WTF-related schools for reference. It looks like taekwondo has become two different things, and that in most of times one is sold like being the other. Maybe I would love my current school had a big poster in front of it, saying "Sport Taekwondo here", when I first stepped in front of it. I would've been aware from the beginning that was not what I wanted.
It seems in countries like USA, Australia and England people have a lot of options. Here in Brazil, unfortunately, we just can't practice ITF, ATA or other alternatives in most parts of the country. Anyway, it wouldn't be bad to practice KKW Taekwondo! The problem is... I think today it seems more like just WTF Taekwondo, if you can get what I mean.

 

[IcemanSK]

Interesting responses. If you don't like tkd as a sport then don't do it anymore. Join an itf or ata(lol) school and be happy and content. Personally I hope the sport continues in the olympics. The main problem is masters and gms who do not teach proper, up to date, kukki tkd.

There is much more to Kukki-TKD than Olympic TKD, as you well know. The evolution of poomsae in Kukki-TKD has been great. It's gone from the background to prominence in competition on the world stage. I see the future of the Art there.

 

[msmitht]

There is much more to Kukki-TKD than Olympic TKD, as you well know. The evolution of poomsae in Kukki-TKD has been great. It's gone from the background to prominence in competition on the world stage. I see the future of the Art there.

Agreed but you have to concede that what the majority of masters teach is wtf sport and not kukki tkd.

 

[IcemanSK]

Agreed but you have to concede that what the majority of masters teach is wtf sport and not kukki tkd.

Absolutely. I don't argue that point in the least. And, on the point of the OP, I think the reason Olympic TKD may not survive past it's current promised date has much more to do with the politics behind the what happens on the mat.

 

[miguksaram]

Not sure if I posted this on the list somewhere or not, but here is a video of a speech given by Dr. Kim during our 2009 trip to Korea. Some of you may find his words interesting.

.

 

[mastercole]

Why would anyone concede to misinformation? According to the Kukkiwon and the WTF, the mass majority of Taekwondo practitioners in the world never train to enter WTF events, and never attend a tournament of any kind. The mass majority of training is curriculum based, that includes Poomsae (many types), Kyorugi (many types), Breaking (many types) and Mommakki (many types). Most schools even add in weapons, boxing, wrestling or some other fun activity to keep students interest. This is the fact of life for Taekwondo in not only the USA, but Korea and the rest of the world.

 

[sopraisso]

Why would anyone concede to misinformation? According to the Kukkiwon and the WTF, the mass majority of Taekwondo practitioners in the world never train to enter WTF events, and never attend a tournament of any kind. The mass majority of training is curriculum based, that includes Poomsae (many types), Kyorugi (many types), Breaking (many types) and Mommakki (many types). Most schools even add in weapons, boxing, wrestling or some other fun activity to keep students interest. This is the fact of life for Taekwondo in not only the USA, but Korea and the rest of the world.

Haha.
Well, maybe we should ask which one is spreading the misinformation!
OK. I believe hardly all people inside a KKW dojang would have interest to join WTF events. Anyway, I beliebe in most KKW dojangs, at least some people always do.
Regardless, it's hard to believe in every place of the world KKW TKD training is predominantly not tournament-oriented. I can only tell for the city where I live, in Brazil: all dojangs I know (and they're many) are significantly tournament-oriented, no matter their students wish or not to participate on tournaments. Moreover, most of those dojangs are highly and predominantly tournament-oriented, I mean the opposite of what you said above.
At minimum, you cannot say "in the USA, in Korea and in the rest of the world". This is a misinformation. Actually, if WTF and KKW say different, I wonder if they're not the ones who are spreading wrong informations.
In my country, by the way, the only public image TKD has been building over the years is that of a mere contact sport -- I mean not even of a martial art. Even official organizations websites often promote only that aspect. No need to say how TKD has become ridiculed among regular martial artists in general and people interested in martial arts, who just don't consider practicing what is no longer considered a real martial art. =/

 

[msmitht]

Why would anyone concede to misinformation? According to the Kukkiwon and the WTF, the mass majority of Taekwondo practitioners in the world never train to enter WTF events, and never attend a tournament of any kind. The mass majority of training is curriculum based, that includes Poomsae (many types), Kyorugi (many types), Breaking (many types) and Mommakki (many types). Most schools even add in weapons, boxing, wrestling or some other fun activity to keep students interest. This is the fact of life for Taekwondo in not only the USA, but Korea and the rest of the world.

Almost all of the KKW/wtf style schools in CA are sport oriented. There are a few who are not but the MAJORITY is. I have attended KKW/WTF schools outside the US and they were deep into the sport. Maybe where you are from it is not that way but in 90% of the schools I have seen WTF sport is what is taught.

 

[mastercole]

Haha.
Well, maybe we should ask which one is spreading the misinformation!
OK. I believe hardly all people inside a KKW dojang would have interest to join WTF events. Anyway, I beliebe in most KKW dojangs, at least some people always do.
Regardless, it's hard to believe in every place of the world KKW TKD training is predominantly not tournament-oriented. I can only tell for the city where I live, in Brazil: all dojangs I know (and they're many) are significantly tournament-oriented, no matter their students wish or not to participate on tournaments. Moreover, most of those dojangs are highly and predominantly tournament-oriented, I mean the opposite of what you said above.
At minimum, you cannot say "in the USA, in Korea and in the rest of the world". This is a misinformation. Actually, if WTF and KKW say different, I wonder if they're not the ones who are spreading wrong informations.
In my country, by the way, the only public image TKD has been building over the years is that of a mere contact sport -- I mean not even of a martial art. Even official organizations websites often promote only that aspect. No need to say how TKD has become ridiculed among regular martial artists in general and people interested in martial arts, who just don't consider practicing what is no longer considered a real martial art. =/

sopraisso, you are indeed amazing. I wonder how you came upon such knowledge beyond that of the Kukkiwon and the WTF. If this is the case, you are more knowledgeable about the state of Kukkiwon and WTF, than, either the Kukkiwon or the WTF! My heartfelt congratulations!

So now that you have stated that the Kukkiwon and the WTF are incorrect in their assessment of their own practitioners participation in tournaments, please tell us how you have come to this conclusion, for the sake of academics.

Start with Brazil

Have you visited the majority of Taekwondo clubs in Brazil and surveyed what percentages are involvement in competitions? What was the result?

Now the rest of the world.

How many nations have you visited for Taekwondo, and during those visits, did you visit the majority of Taekwondo clubs in those nations? What was the result?

Thanks in advance for sharing your research, I recommend that we send it off to Kukkiwon and WTF right away.

Warmest Personal Regards,

Al Cole

 

[mastercole]

That's interesting, having attended tournaments in California, and regularly attending the largest and most prestigious Taekwondo event in California, I have found that speaking directly to the various leaders of the California Taekwondo organizations, like CUTA, CTA, NCTA, etc, I find they all are of the opinion that it's the minority of Taekwondo students who participate in tournaments. They would love to see more participation, even among their own students.

But if you have taken a survey of all the Kukkiwon/WTF related schools in California, and have different statistics, I would love to see them.

Which nations have you visited for Taekwondo events? Did you do the same sort of surveying you did in California in those nations as well? What were the results?

I really appreciate you sharing this information.

Best Regards,

Al Cole

 

[Tez3]

Put the girls in little mini skirts as the boxing authorities plan to do with the female boxers, then the lads in short shorts and TKD will run forever.

 

[Master Dan]

That's interesting, having attended tournaments in California, and regularly attending the largest and most prestigious Taekwondo event in California, I have found that speaking directly to the various leaders of the California Taekwondo organizations, like CUTA, CTA, NCTA, etc, I find they all are of the opinion that it's the minority of Taekwondo students who participate in tournaments. They would love to see more participation, even among their own students.

But if you have taken a survey of all the Kukkiwon/WTF related schools in California, and have different statistics, I would love to see them.

Which nations have you visited for Taekwondo events? Did you do the same sort of surveying you did in California in those nations as well? What were the results?

I really appreciate you sharing this information.

Best Regards,

Al Cole

Gee I wonder why then KKW and the UTC both agree that sport and tournament TKD are only 1-10% of the entire TKD focus and membership training and that is why the HanmaDang in Korea has 15,000 competitors related to more martial art based participation remembering that ART constitutes a substantial portion of expression and why it is becoming a bigger success and draw in the US???????????? Also the surviving pioneers here only promote TKD as a mere sport not martial art?? reminds me of my GM explaining our experience compared to swiming in a small pond and then going to the ocean?? I suspect Supriaso is swiming in a puddle?????????

 

[IcemanSK]

I live in California also. I see very few schools that teach Kukki-TKD, but teach sport, instead. I run into adult BB's in their 20's who have KKW certs. but have never done poomsae of any kind. I don't participate in tournaments, nor do my students. I see that as rare in my state. Maybe there are more of us than I realize.

 

[OwlMatt]

Personally, I consider the transition of taekwondo from martial art to sport a good thing. I think it promotes a more realistic attitude toward the applications of the art (fewer people thinking they're going to take on five guys in the street Van Damme-style); keeps TKD from going the way many karate programs have gone--into a pit of fanciful, pseudo-religious nonsense; and allows people to focus on the Korean innovations to the art without clinging to the nationalistic fabrication that is the official history of taekwondo. What the Kukkiwon and the WTF need to do to make this work, though, is stop changing the rules and the forms every few years and stop pushing the aforementioned falsified history as required reading.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Personally, I consider the transition of taekwondo from martial art to sport a good thing. I think it promotes a more realistic attitude toward the applications of the art (fewer people thinking they're going to take on five guys in the street Van Damme-style); keeps TKD from going the way many karate programs have gone--into a pit of fanciful, pseudo-religious nonsense; and allows people to focus on the Korean innovations to the art without clinging to the nationalistic fabrication that is the official history of taekwondo. What the Kukkiwon and the WTF need to do to make this work, though, is stop changing the rules and the forms every few years and stop pushing the aforementioned falsified history as required reading.

No martial art will prepare you for taking on 5 guys van damme style, BUT tkd taught as a martial art (not sport) will prepare you to handle yourself very well in a real life situation. I know many police officers and army guys who train soley martial tkd and they can not only fight very well, but are using what they know in day to day situations. There is no problem with 'sport' tkd providing the guys doing it know they are not learning to defend themselves, they are learning a sport. There is still plenty of room for it to co-exist with martial tkd in my opinion.

 

[OwlMatt]

No martial art will prepare you for taking on 5 guys van damme style, BUT tkd taught as a martial art (not sport) will prepare you to handle yourself very well in a real life situation. I know many police officers and army guys who train soley martial tkd and they can not only fight very well, but are using what they know in day to day situations. There is no problem with 'sport' tkd providing the guys doing it know they are not learning to defend themselves, they are learning a sport. There is still plenty of room for it to co-exist with martial tkd in my opinion.

I've never met a person who uses what would be recognized in a dojang as taekwondo in self-defense situations.

 

[Master Dan]

No martial art will prepare you for taking on 5 guys van damme style, BUT tkd taught as a martial art (not sport) will prepare you to handle yourself very well in a real life situation. I know many police officers and army guys who train soley martial tkd and they can not only fight very well, but are using what they know in day to day situations. There is no problem with 'sport' tkd providing the guys doing it know they are not learning to defend themselves, they are learning a sport. There is still plenty of room for it to co-exist with martial tkd in my opinion.

Ralph it just seems like any of those in the ages of 20-30 who want to talk of thier vast knowledge related to what TKD is or is not just don't get? If they or anyone they know has no SD skills its not the art only the instructor teaching it. Traditional TKD is all inclusive of everthing just the focus of training changes with time age and health. The fact that there is such a general concensus of uniformed people saying something diferent or so many so called masters now who never learned anything different still does not change what was at its base and some of this comes home to roost from many who refused to share or keep what was best for only thier own kind or inner circle promoting only sport to bring people in the door.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I've never met a person who uses what would be recognized in a dojang as taekwondo in self-defense situations.

I have. Not KKW Taekwon-Do, but ITF Taekwon-Do.

Pax,

Chris