Sport And TMA....Again

[Steve]

That's all good guys. But there was one point in the second clip where the aikidoka had the guy in a bully style head lock on the mat. The MMA guy had a deep undertook and literally all he had to do to reverse position was to turn his hips over and clear his head. I was like, "noooooooo!!!!!! Take the back!!!!!!!"

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[K-man]

That's all good guys. But there was one point in the second clip where the aikidoka had the guy in a bully style head lock on the mat. The MMA guy had a deep undertook and literally all he had to do to reverse position was to turn his hips over and clear his head. I was like, "noooooooo!!!!!! Take the back!!!!!!!"

I think that we have to accept not all Aikidoka are like Steven Seagal, not all BJJ guys are like Royce Gracie, not all Kung Fu guys are like Bruce Lee and not all Karate guys are like Chuck Norris. Most of us train to be the best we can be at what we do. Some of us might be overweight, some might be older, some might live with disability. Most of us have no desire to compete in competition and we all have different motivation for training which may even influence the style of martial art we have chosen. I would never post anything on YouTube as it will always be taken out of context by some idiot trying to make a point.

We were discussing it at Aikido this morning. People post stuff that yells, "look at me", and I might look and cringe. The person who has posted the video reckons that what they were doing was great, but I look at it from a different perspective and say that was not right, or that was not realistic or that will never work ... and that is from someone who trains in that system. But what really pisses me off is when there is material that is good technique that demonstrates balance and timing and is an example of good training and someone with no training in the style rubbishes it.

The thing that is important though is, no matter how terrible the video, it is not representative of the system it portrays and even more important, the person in the video has got up off his ****, gone down to a dojo and started training unlike the millions of couch potatoes and armchair experts who have nothing better to do with their time than to criticise others.
:asian:

 

[K-man]

Aikido is like that. And it works, and until you spend time training in Aikido, and learning the art behind it, you won't ever understand. BTW, I found out something important at Aikido last night....

That is, when Nikyo is applied perfectly......it friggin hurts like hell. Jeepers.

Mike

Can't wait to hear your comment when they apply yonkyo perfectly!

 

[Spinedoc]

I think that we have to accept not all Aikidoka are like Steven Seagal, not all BJJ guys are like Royce Gracie, not all Kung Fu guys are like Bruce Lee and not all Karate guys are like Chuck Norris. Most of us train to be the best we can be at what we do. Some of us might be overweight, some might be older, some might live with disability. Most of us have no desire to compete in competition and we all have different motivation for training which may even influence the style of martial art we have chosen. I would never post anything on YouTube as it will always be taken out of context by some idiot trying to make a point.

We were discussing it at Aikido this morning. People post stuff that yells, "look at me", and I might look and cringe. The person who has posted the video reckons that what they were doing was great, but I look at it from a different perspective and say that was not right, or that was not realistic or that will never work ... and that is from someone who trains in that system. But what really pisses me off is when there is material that is good technique that demonstrates balance and timing and is an example of good training and someone with no training in the style rubbishes it.

The thing that is important though is, no matter how terrible the video, it is not representative of the system it portrays and even more important, the person in the video has got up off his ****, gone down to a dojo and started training unlike the millions of couch potatoes and armchair experts who have nothing better to do with their time than to criticise others.
:asian:

One of the things that has always attracted me to Aikido was the humility that is implicit within the art. Summarized by O'Sensei....:

"Bury me wearing the white belt, so I will forever know I am a beginner". Morihei Ueshiba.

 

[Hanzou]

I was wondering when this would pop up. The inevitable "well he was a crappy mixed martial artist" statement. The exact same statement TMA usually give when they are shown a example of there guys getting whomper stomped.

Yes I agree, he didn't look spectacular. I wonder if it was staged?? He didn't throw any low round kicks, very few if any kicks at all. His punch's were limited and he didn't do anything other then 1/2.

Yes he sucked, but however, he had a massive advantage in the working use of 2 hands. Still give mad props to the aikidoka for his amazing showing..

There are many MMA fighters who have limited to zero ground fighting training.

As I said before, this fight merely proves the Gracies right. The Aikidoka couldn't compete in taking shots, so he took him to the mat where he had the advantage over a stronger opponent.

 

[Hanzou]

No, you can say that. The point is, taking Ukemi is an integral part of Aikido training. Trying to point to a training video and then say...."well, wait, it doesn't look like that in a real fight"...is ignoring the art behind Aikido.

Aikido is like that. And it works, and until you spend time training in Aikido, and learning the art behind it, you won't ever understand.

Well then why is Bjj or Judo not like that? For example, Royce Gracie, Anderson Silva, Chris Holdsworth, and Rhonda Rousey's takedowns and submissions look like something straight out of a Judo/Bjj textbook or demonstration.

Kman stated that everyone can't do Aikido like Steven Seagal. I'm starting to wonder if even Steven Seagal can do Aikido like Steven Seagal. This includes competition Aikido which also looks nothing like demonstration Aikido, or textbook Aikido.

Why is this the case?

When NFL players play football, it DOES look like textbook or demonstration football. And you see some truly beautiful plays when everything works out for the offense or the defense. So yeah, your comparison was pretty terrible.

 

[SENC-33]

Hanzou why don't you just post some youtube video of yourself? Lets see how great YOUR ground work is.......It would give you the perfect opportunity to promote the gracie family as well.

 

[Hanzou]

Hanzou why cant you give that One armed guy some props man? How can you not see any aikido in that video when I clearly saw it and I don't even practice it.. The takes downs he uses for starters, are definitely not Judo or wrestling takedowns. Especially the last 3 in the second video I most enjoyed the single arm to throat take down he did.

Secondly the way he was moving was different then anything I have seen in my experience with mma. His striking was also very aikido'ish, as he used them to set up his takedowns..

Fact remains he controlled that fight, and made the other dude look like a chump, and you still cant give him any props?

I disagree with you. The takedowns he was using were definitely Judo/Wrestling takedowns. Why? Because in every case he went down with his opponent and immediately entered side control. You ever see any demonstrations of Aikidoka wrestling their opponent to the ground, then immediately laying on top of them, and begin fighting them on the ground? I thought the point of Aikido ground fighting was to get up as quickly as possible? Also where were the wrist grabs? Where were those spectacular throws? Instead, the Aikidoka griped his opponents shirt, neck, arm, elbow, and reaped his foot over and over again. That's a good old fashion Judo/Bjj takedown bro.

As for giving the one-armed man "props", sure, I'll give him credit for showing that the main fighting philosophy behind Bjj is one that is proven over and over again.

 

[Kframe]

I disagree with you. The takedowns he was using were definitely Judo/Wrestling takedowns. Why? Because in every case he went down with his opponent and immediately entered side control. You ever see any demonstrations of Aikidoka wrestling their opponent to the ground, then immediately laying on top of them, and begin fighting them on the ground? I thought the point of Aikido ground fighting was to get up as quickly as possible? Also where were the wrist grabs? Where were those spectacular throws? Instead, the Aikidoka griped his opponents shirt, neck, arm, elbow, and reaped his foot over and over again. That's a good old fashion Judo/Bjj takedown bro.

As for giving the one-armed man "props", sure, I'll give him credit for showing that the main fighting philosophy behind Bjj is one that is proven over and over again.

You cant seriously think that those were judo take downs? Go back and watch that video you posted about aikido throws and educate your self. Judo does not have a monopoly on being in side control after a throw..

 

[Hanzou]

You cant seriously think that those were judo take downs? Go back and watch that video you posted about aikido throws and educate your self.

LoL! Okay then, please show me some Aikido reaping throws. I'll even help you out, they look something like this;


http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kouchigari.htm
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kosotogari.htm
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

If you need to refer back to the video, they were performed at 0:54 in the first video, and about 1:02 in the second video.

The point? Reaping throws are practical, and easy to pull off. Much easier than catching someone's wrist in midair and putting them in a wrist lock.

Judo does not have a monopoly on being in side control after a throw..

The point is that when the poop hits the fan, both guys clinch, wrestle each other to the ground, and get into a submission fight.

The Aikidoka's guillotine attempt for example.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Kman stated that everyone can't do Aikido like Steven Seagal. I'm starting to wonder if even Steven Seagal can do Aikido like Steven Seagal. .

I am pretty sure Steven Seagal can do everything thing like Steven Seagal considering he is Steven Seagal, unless he is not feeling himself. :hmm:

 

[Spinedoc]

When NFL players play football, it DOES look like textbook or demonstration football. And you see some truly beautiful plays when everything works out for the offense or the defense. So yeah, your comparison was pretty terrible.

Exactly....now how often does that actually happen. These players are all good enough that broken plays can still look good. The point is, they never, EVER look as good as practice. QB's don't get hit or knocked down in practice.

 

[RTKDCMB]

LoL! Okay then, please show me some Aikido reaping throws. I'll even help you out, they look something like this;

http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kouchigari.htm
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/kosotogari.htm
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

I hate to burst your bubble but those techniques are not exclusive to Judo. Each one of those is basically a leg sweep found in a multitude of martial arts including mine.

The point? Reaping throws are practical, and easy to pull off. Much easier than catching someone's wrist in midair and putting them in a wrist lock.

Practical - usually, easy - not always and it does put you in convenient punching or stabbing distance of your attacker. A wrist lock can put you in a safer position against getting hit or stabbed and they usually hurt them more. And they are not that hard to pull off when you know what you are doing.

The Aikidoka's guillotine attempt for example.

Not a technique exclusive to MMA or BJJ.

Aikido certainly doesn't do it.

And you would know because you are an expert in Aikido?

 

[RTKDCMB]

Hanzou why don't you just post some youtube video of yourself? Lets see how great YOUR ground work is.......It would give you the perfect opportunity to promote the gracie family as well.

I have asked him that on several occasions but lying down and thinking about how other martial arts suck is not ground work.

 

[Hanzou]

Exactly....now how often does that actually happen. These players are all good enough that broken plays can still look good. The point is, they never, EVER look as good as practice. QB's don't get hit or knocked down in practice.

That depends on the teams playing. Take the recent Florida St vs Duke game. Florida completely dominated Duke, and the quarterback was rarely touched. It looked like Florida was having a practice.

Again, it's a terrible comparison. Football practice resembles actual football play. Aikido practice doesn't resemble actual Aikido in play at all.

 

[ballen0351]

Have you all not learned by now if its a take down its judo it doesn't matter of your art has a similar or the same takedown its Judo that it no ifs ands or buts

If its a ground technique its BJJ it doesn't matter if your art has the same thing its BJJ. Even if its Judo it's not Judo its BJJ well unless it didn't work then its something else but if it worked its BJJ.
Get with the program guys.

 

[Hanzou]

I hate to burst your bubble but those techniques are not exclusive to Judo. Each one of those is basically a leg sweep found in a multitude of martial arts including mine.



Practical - usually, easy - not always and it does put you in convenient punching or stabbing distance of your attacker. A wrist lock can put you in a safer position against getting hit or stabbed and they usually hurt them more. And they are not that hard to pull off when you know what you are doing.



Not a technique exclusive to MMA or BJJ.



And you would know because you are an expert in Aikido?

We're diverging from the point. The point is that when we enter an actual fight situation, the standing opponents clinch, and then attempt to take each other to the ground and attempt to dominate each other.

 

[ballen0351]

We're diverging from the point. The point is that when we enter an actual fight situation, the standing opponents clinch, and then attempt to take each other to the ground and attempt to dominate each other.

No they don't your just wrong.

 

[Hanzou]

No they don't your just wrong.

It happened in that Aikido vs MMA vid, It happened at the UFC, it's happened in numerous street fighting vids, and it happens in boxing and MMA. It happens over and over again.

 

[jks9199]

That depends on the teams playing. Take the recent Florida St vs Duke game. Florida completely dominated Duke, and the quarterback was rarely touched. It looked like Florida was having a practice.

Again, it's a terrible comparison. Football practice resembles actual football play. Aikido practice doesn't resemble actual Aikido in play at all.

How do you know? What are you basing your statement on? For that matter -- did you play football growing up? There's plenty of parts of football practice that have only a slight resemblance to game play -- like linemen driving a blocking sled around.