Racist Cop or Combative Professor?

[yorkshirelad]

Yeah man, I see what you are saying. I also believe that it didn't have to end in arrest. Some in this thread would frame me as a race bater for that. Having a different opinion makes me some sort of race bater now.

Listen, anyone here who takes sides with the Professor is a race bater. The facts show quite clearly that the arrest (although not essential) was justified. That is the plain and simple truth. You yourself have said before on a previous thread Omar, that you have been targetted because of the way look. If we were to go back say, a year and this was a white friend of George Bush, the media would've painted the professor as an ******* and Bush would've been crucified in the media for defending his eccentric, angry friend.
Now given that the arrest was justified and that you have been "targetted", it doesn't take Columbo to deduce that your decision to support Gates has a racial componant. So I stand by my words.

 

[Omar B]

What happened to me has no bearing on how I feel about as you put it a "not essential" arrest. As I said before, my best friend's dad is an NYPD detective, my past experience with cops has not been more shaded by by his influence than anything else. And I say again, using your words, the arrest was "not essential." Not everyone who gets loud gets arrested, not everyone who speeds gets a ticket, it didn't have to play out how it did. I stand by that.

 

[yorkshirelad]

my best friend's dad is an NYPD detective, quote]
I remember hearing many a racist say, "I'm not a racist, I have black friends". Are you honestly trying to tell me that Gates' skin colour has no bearing on your opinion of this case?

 

[jks9199]

What happened to me has no bearing on how I feel about as you put it a "not essential" arrest. As I said before, my best friend's dad is an NYPD detective, my past experience with cops has not been more shaded by by his influence than anything else. And I say again, using your words, the arrest was "not essential." Not everyone who gets loud gets arrested, not everyone who speeds gets a ticket, it didn't have to play out how it did. I stand by that.

By the same reasoning, not everyone who has a cop come to their door investigating a reported burglary gets belligerent and accuses the cop of targeting them solely because of their race. Both sides could have handled this differently.

To be very blunt... In my experience, most of the time when someone tries to say that I targeted them for attention solely because of their race -- it's an attempt to distract me from the real reason I stopped them. They want me to hurry up and end the contact, and not look too deeply because they actually ARE up to something or they know they're wrong and want me to be afraid to ticket them...

 

[sgtmac_46]

Yeah man, I see what you are saying. I also believe that it didn't have to end in arrest. Some in this thread would frame me as a race bater for that. Having a different opinion makes me some sort of race bater now.

Yeah, it didn't have to end in arrest.....Gates could have used the brain that one would expect a Harvard Professor to have!

The only reason some folks are claiming that is that you've aligned yourself on this topic with a couple of obvious race baiters. I understand, however, that you can agree with their position without agreeing with their whole position.

At the end of the day whatever one believes about Sgt. Crowley's arrest of Gates, it's obvious that Crowley wasn't motivated by racism........the same cannot be said for Gates........or Obama for that matter.

 

[celtic_crippler]

It seems like the key issue with most is whether or not Gates should have been arrested for disorderly conduct and whether or not Sgt. Crowley's decision to do so may have been based on Gate's race. Is that it?

Thus far, the only evidence supporting anyone playing the "race card" points to Gates. It appears that Gates flew off the handle and did not exhibit the mature and rational behavior one would expect of a highly educated individual.

However, the debate seems to be focused on whether Dr. Gates tantrum necessitated an arrest.

Examples of Disorderly Conduct

Disorderly conduct offenses vary widely by state. Here are some of the most common acts that are considered disorderly conduct offenses:

• Public drunkenness
• Inciting a riot
• disturbance of the peace
• loitering in certain areas
• fighting / physical altercations
• obstructing traffic
• use of extremely obscene or abusive language
• loud or unreasonable noise

So...was Dr. Gates "disturbing the peace" by throwing a tantrum?

Did Dr. Gates use "abusive language" when he said to Sgt. Crowley among other things, "...I'll meet yo' momma outside!"

Really? A Harvard Professor resorting to "yo momma" attacks? I'd be embarrassed as hell if I were he.

 

[MJS]

I don't even think he was asking because he wanted to file a complaint, I think the officer had already identified himself...probably several times.....I think he was asking for the EXACT same reason he was referring to Sgt. Crowley's mother.......it was part of his taunting diatribe........

You're probably right. And then this guy wonders why he gont arrested for disorderly. *shrug*

 

[sgtmac_46]

By the same reasoning, not everyone who has a cop come to their door investigating a reported burglary gets belligerent and accuses the cop of targeting them solely because of their race. Both sides could have handled this differently.

To be very blunt... In my experience, most of the time when someone tries to say that I targeted them for attention solely because of their race -- it's an attempt to distract me from the real reason I stopped them. They want me to hurry up and end the contact, and not look too deeply because they actually ARE up to something or they know they're wrong and want me to be afraid to ticket them...

Exactly.....the 'You're just messing with me because i'm a <insert group here>' statement is really an attempt to bluff and bully the officer in to looking no further in to the situation.........even white dirtbags try it.......many folks with a chip on their shoulder attempt to personalize every encounter with the police as if the police are somehow targeting them for something OTHER than what really happened.

 

[MJS]

Yeah man, I see what you are saying. I also believe that it didn't have to end in arrest. Some in this thread would frame me as a race bater for that. Having a different opinion makes me some sort of race bater now.

You're right...it didn't have to end in arrest, and I'd be willing to go so far as to say that there are many people who could avoid alot of what happens, if they took a bit of Chris Rocks advice. Lets see..things such as a) shut the **** up, b) be polite. That video IMO is designed to be a spoof, a comedy, to make folks laugh, but if you stop and think about it, so much applies to RL.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It seems like the key issue with most is whether or not Gates should have been arrested for disorderly conduct and whether or not Sgt. Crowley's decision to do so may have been based on Gate's race. Is that it?

Thus far, the only evidence supporting anyone playing the "race card" points to Gates. It appears that Gates flew off the handle and did not exhibit the mature and rational behavior one would expect of a highly educated individual.

However, the debate seems to be focused on whether Dr. Gates tantrum necessitated an arrest.

So...was Dr. Gates "disturbing the peace" by throwing a tantrum?

Did Dr. Gates use "abusive language" when he said to Sgt. Crowley among other things, "...I'll meet yo' momma outside!"

Really? A Harvard Professor resorting to "yo momma" attacks? I'd be embarrassed as hell if I were he.

Very good point!

Lets be clear.......this discussion has split up in to camps of various interests. The apologists for Obama and Gates want to fixate on whether Gates 'needed' to be arrested (they won't even argue that an arrest wasn't technically justified given his behavior)..........but that's not what made this case NATIONAL NEWS........two things did.......Gates, a Harvard Professor, spewing racist invectives, and the most powerful man on the planet losing ALL OBJECTIVITY to lash out with equally stupid charges of racism, while admitting he knew nothing about the situation.


At the end of the day the issue here is Obama, and his VERY UNPRESIDENTIAL behavior.......not whether Sgt. Crowley was goaded in to arresting Gates, when he shouldn't have or even if Gates is an obvious racist........it was Obama's behavior, pure and simple, that showed the absolute WORST judgement in this situation........whereas BOTH Gates and Sgt. Crowley were thrust in to a situation that was heated, Obama had the opportunity to comment or not with the objectivity of distance.......and STILL said about the stupidest thing he possibly could!

 

[sgtmac_46]

You're right...it didn't have to end in arrest, and I'd be willing to go so far as to say that there are many people who could avoid alot of what happens, if they took a bit of Chris Rocks advice. Lets see..things such as a) shut the **** up, b) be polite. That video IMO is designed to be a spoof, a comedy, to make folks laugh, but if you stop and think about it, so much applies to RL.

Gates didn't have to be polite........he could have presented his identification, resolved the situation, and asked at the end

'Are we finished here, Officer?'

'Yes sir, we are.'

'Good.....now can you get out of my house, i've got a very busy day tomorrow'.

 

[Omar B]

my best friend's dad is an NYPD detective, quote]
I remember hearing many a racist say, "I'm not a racist, I have black friends". Are you honestly trying to tell me that Gates' skin colour has no bearing on your opinion of this case?

Nope, it does not. As much as you would love to believe I'm a member of the black panther movement supporting him just because he's black, no. Having a different opinion does not mean I'm playing up some race thing, it's just a different opinion, if you can't handle that then tough.

 

[Big Don]

Nope, it does not. As much as you would love to believe I'm a member of the black panther movement supporting him just because he's black, no. Having a different opinion does not mean I'm playing up some race thing, it's just a different opinion, if you can't handle that then tough.

So, what exactly, in your opinion, justifies his behavior?


BTW, FYI for ALL of you Masters, when discussing bears, race or fish, it is BAITING ergo: BAITER, not BATER, although, given the choice, I'd rather Batter.

 

[Big Don]

The ONLY racial Bias in this case is that of Mr Gates and President Obama.
The Officers questioned the man they found inside the house where the break in was reported.
They were not harassing black people at random.
Gates violated RULE #89:
Don't Start Nothin', Won't Be Nothin'!

 

[jks9199]

Very good point!

Lets be clear.......this discussion has split up in to camps of various interests. The apologists for Obama and Gates want to fixate on whether Gates 'needed' to be arrested (they won't even argue that an arrest wasn't technically justified given his behavior)..........but that's not what made this case NATIONAL NEWS........two things did.......Gates, a Harvard Professor, spewing racist invectives, and the most powerful man on the planet losing ALL OBJECTIVITY to lash out with equally stupid charges of racism, while admitting he knew nothing about the situation.


At the end of the day the issue here is Obama, and his VERY UNPRESIDENTIAL behavior.......not whether Sgt. Crowley was goaded in to arresting Gates, when he shouldn't have or even if Gates is an obvious racist........it was Obama's behavior, pure and simple, that showed the absolute WORST judgement in this situation........whereas BOTH Gates and Sgt. Crowley were thrust in to a situation that was heated, Obama had the opportunity to comment or not with the objectivity of distance.......and STILL said about the stupidest thing he possibly could!

You know what -- I'll give President Obama a little bit of leeway. I'll grant that HIS comments may not have been tied to Professor Gates's race, but merely their friendship. I've stood up for friends before without knowing all the details, and discovered later I was wrong. Embarrassing -- but I'm human. I'll give President Obama that much slack... But, as PRESIDENT, he should have known better than to get involved. "I don't have the details, and I'm sorry my friend had to go through that" would have been fine. He would have shown public support for his friend without attacking the police. And you cannot tell me that as skilled an orator as President Obama, taking the apparent care with what to say that seems to be in the video, just put his foot in his mouth.

 

[Omar B]

So, what exactly, in your opinion, justifies his behavior?
BTW, FYI for ALL of you Masters, when discussing bears, race or fish, it is BAITING ergo: BAITER, not BATER, although, given the choice, I'd rather Batter.

I didn't justify his behavior. I just said that it did not have to end like that, people don't always get arrested or get tickets, they can get a warning. Didn't think I applauded or justified anyone's actions.

 

[geezer]

The fact that this relatively minor affair has already generated over 15 pages of heated discussion is evidence that the race issues are still a huge problem for us as a nation. And, beyond that, the issue is being exploited by certain individuals who seem to bear an almost irrational hatred for our President, accusing him of being incompetant and "unfit for office" ...because of this one minor mistep! I give irrational Obama haters get the same response I gave the irrational Bush haters. I ignore them.

As for the rest of us, who are not reacting solely out of our emotional dislike of the President, what is so hard to understand about an accomplished and esteemed Black man still being human and losing his cool when he thinks he's being singled out by the cops again for his race? I say 'again' because you know damn well people get singled out for the color of their skin, their age, their accent, their dress, the cars they drive, ...or you name it. It happens. And it ticks you off. So maybe that's why Professor Gates lost his cool.

And what about Officer Crowley? He apparently has worked very hard to be a fair cop, and an expert on race relations in police work. Yet is it so hard to understand that he's human too? In spite of himself, when Gates went off on his tirade, he got so ticked off that he went ahead and made the legal, but unecessary decision to arrest the Prof?

And are the President's comments really that hard to understand either? I mean he started right off by saying that he probably couldn't be totally objective since Professor Gates was a personal friend, he overstepped a bit by calling the actions of the police "stupid"... although they certainly weren't the wisest way to resolve this situation. And he noted the statistical facts that underly the distrust many in the Black community have for the police. Hell, what's so bad about that? Sure, it wasn't as polished a political statement as you might like. Maybe he also let his emotions color his speech a bit. Did any of you know that he's a Black man? Surprise! Maybe he has also felt the sting of prejudice a few times. Maybe it isn't so easy being bi-racial in America either.

Anyway, I say cut all three of the parties involved a little slack and let's get past this and back to issues of greater importance. Now, will somebody invite me to the Whitehouse for a beer?

 

[dnovice]

My opinion. The cop might or might not have been a racist but he is retarded. (I've nothing against police officers as whole, I worked with them side by side.) I think obama was right in his first response that he had to eventually retract.

Sure, its fine that the cops showed up since a neighbor called about suspicious men trying to break into gates home. Sure, its fine that the cop asked for identification. However, the moment the cop ascertained that Gates was the owner of the house, regardless of how irate or high pitched the professors voice was he should explained to the professor that "he came because of a call and that next time gates should calmly talk to him." Then the cop should have walked away.

Feeling that you are being picked on because of who you are "whether you are black, white, hispanic can make you very irate. If you are going to racial profile (which is not necessarily racism) then you must expect the angry backlash that you will get from some innocent people, and handle it. A whole sgt couldn't do that. That saddens me.

 

[Big Don]

My opinion. The cop might or might not have been a racist but he is retarded. (I've nothing against police officers as whole, I worked with them side by side.) I think obama was right in his first response that he had to eventually retract.

Sure, its fine that the cops showed up since a neighbor called about suspicious men trying to break into gates home. Sure, its fine that the cop asked for identification. However, the moment the cop ascertained that Gates was the owner of the house, regardless of how irate or high pitched the professors voice was he should explained to the professor that "he came because of a call and that next time gates should calmly talk to him." Then the cop should have walked away.

Feeling that you are being picked on because of who you are "whether you are black, white, hispanic can make you very irate. If you are going to racial profile (which is not necessarily racism) then you must expect the angry backlash that you will get from some innocent people, and handle it. A whole sgt couldn't do that. That saddens me.

That Gates supposedly felt he was being picked on because of his race is silly, and, not the fault of the cops.

 

[Carol]

Professor Gates was on university property.

He is the tenant, Harvard University is the landlord. I believe the university owns all of the residences on Ware street.