Racist Cop or Combative Professor?

[sgtmac_46]

First, Dr. Gates is not a 5 year old child.

Second, did you let your child misbehave or defy you indefinitely? Or did a time come where you took some sort of disciplinary action, and actually stuck with it? You empowered the child's defiance by drawing the line, than shifting it back. Sgt. Crowley drew the line. But when Dr. Gates crossed it, the sergeant took action. He had to, if he wanted respect down the road.

BINGO! The empowerment for the 5 year old didn't come from drawing the LINE.......but the from the guilt trip that caused him to change his mind. Fair, Firm and Consistent are the watchwords.........some folks seem to want to eliminate 'Firm and Consistent' because it makes them 'feel guilty'.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Thing is Steve..you keep focusing on how Crowley ALLOWED someone else to behave...Crowley DIDNT CONTROL Gates...Crowley maybe LURED/BAITED Gates outside..etc.

Since when are cops now responsible for how another CHOOSES to behave? If some mook on the street assaults me on the street tonight is his responsibility mitigated because I wasnt aware enough..wasnt trained properly....didnt control him properly?

The bottom line is, perhaps Crowley "could have" done many things differently but he was still doing his job within its legal parameters. I think every cop here has already said that. You seem to want us all to now lay BLAME on him as well.

Gates CHOSE to act the way he did on his own accord...trying to lay the blame for a persons actions on another person is classic liberal "victim status" BS in my opinion.

All true, except for ONE thing.......Cops are REQUIRED to interview when people act a certain way.......they are NOT, however, as Steve believes 'to leave'........IN FACT, any COP that leaves while a man is actively creating a disturbance is NOT DOING his job....he's avoiding his job to avoid trouble.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm impressed that you guys are so involved with this. I think the people consistently posting this area need to find something to do other then talk about this.
The Cops showed up and did what they needed to do
Gates showed proof that it was his house
The cops should of left, but arrested the guy because he was being an ***
The cops realised they ****ed up and let him go
Gates started screaming racism
Obama stepped in where he shouldn't have

People get the hell over it. It's not the end of the world if cops screw up a little, someone over reacts, and Obama answers a damn question.

Lets make it perfectly clear........Obama calling the police of this country RACISTS.....IS A BIG DEAL!

 

[sgtmac_46]

But if you read the report, and believe it, that is exactly what he did. After ID'ing him, he left. It was only after Gates left the inside of his home and continued yelling did Crowley then take him to jail, again, after warning him to stop.

So I am still not understanding how Crowley contributed to this. Tell me, based on Gates (even self-admitted) behavior, do you believe that this wouldn't have gone up the chain if Crowley had not arrested him. I still think we would be talking about this.

Exactly.

A man who follows a police officer in an emotionally charged state needs to be intervened on.

The ENTIRE argument of those who believe that Sgt. Crowley was wrong, are basing it on the ASININE assumption that his PRESENCE was creating this situation, and that he should have removed himself from the situation........that Gates was under no obligation to control himself.......that Sgt. Crowley should have control not only of himself, but of Gates, and is responsible for both their behaviors.

The reality is that Sgt. Crowley's job is to ALSO intervene on behalf of the public, and prevent further disturbance from happening......if Gates is following him in to the front yard of this neighborhood, very soon it's likely to escalate further from there.........simply abandoning the scene and leaving an emotionally charged subject yelling in his front yard in the middle of the night is NOT what the neighbors (THE PUBLIC) would desire or expect.......it's a police officer EVADING his responsibility to maintain order.........again the notion that the officers presence is rightfully causing Gates' actions is ASININE!

 

[sgtmac_46]

jks, that's very true. Gates isn't a child, however, the relationship is the same. Crowley is in a position of authority over Gates, and presumably has the training, experience and wisdom (not to mention responsibility) to handle the situation well and not lose control. This relationship is much the same as a parent and a child. When a child misbehaves, do you blame the child or the parent? Often, the parent is to blame.

If the child misbehaves and the parents REFUSES to intervene, I blame the parent. It is a parents responsibility to ensure that the child behaves properly. Ignoring bad behavior doesn't remotely do that.....it merely encourages that behavior.

To your second point, there are a lot of ways to handle a situation. The overriding principle I learned and always try to keep in mind is to not allow the situation to escalate so that the punishment is out of proportion to the situation. In other words, you don't ground a kid for two weeks because he doesn't want to go to bed. In the same vein, you don't arrest a guy for being angry with you because you accused him of being a burglar in his own home, even if he's being a jackass.

There is a way to handle that......if he continues to create a disturbance and escalates by entering his front yard in the middle of the night, for all the neighbors to hear, you take him in to custody and stop the disturbance.

But, really quickly, yorkshirelad, are you comparing Gates to a guy experiencing a psychotic episode in your hometown?

It's more accurate than comparing him to a 5 year old child........wait a minute, perhaps the 5 year old child comparison IS pretty accurate.

And archangel, as I've said before, I'm focusing more on Crowley only because so many here want to give him a free pass. I'm not suggesting that he be fired or anything like that. I'm suggesting that he is not without blame and that this situation was as much a product of his actions as of Gates.

Nobody is giving Crowley 'A free pass'.....I know from EXPERIENCE what his job is and he did it........I simply refuse to 'attack the cop' simply because that's what all the 'cool kids' do.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hilarious! If he comes forward and says, "No I didn't apologize, even with their pressure," you're gonna say 'Damn straight'. But if he does apologize you just gave a 'prediction' to undermine any possible legitimacy to him changing his mind or even coming to an understanding with Gates. Nice trick. I don't think Crowley or Gates is the problem. It's their my-guy-can-do-no-wrong supporters.

Actually the problem is our POTUS......and HIS 'my-guy-can-do-no-wrong' supporters.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Uh...that bugs the bejeezus out of me. I think it particularly stings because I am a 40 year old white woman as well.

My neighborhood is very diverse. Its built a hillside. The nicest residences in the neighborhood are a string of townhouses at the top of the hill. These townhouses are very similar to the houses owned by HarvardRES. They are houses that are leased out to local businesses that use them as executive housing.

If I were to go out for a walk and saw one or two people trying to get through a locked door on "executive hill" (as we call it), I'd call 911. I'd likely do the same thing if I saw something similar on Ware streeet. Doesn't matter if they were men, women, white, black, Asian, Latino...that's not the proper way to get through a door.

When you call the cops, you have to give the dispatcher a description. You can either say "There are two guys trying to break in to a residence" and wait for the dispatcher to prompt you through all the questions, or you can offer a description from the start.

Imagine that! You call because you're concerned that your neighbors house is getting broke in to.......and people start attacking you by calling you a racist! That REALLY illustrates well the mindset of one side of this debate.

 

[sgtmac_46]

And when it comes down to it, skin color is just an identifying feature. I hope we are not going to enter into some silly phase where we can describe the color of a shirt a person is wearing but we cant describe skin color.

There are those who would like to make it illegal to even use race as a descriptive factor under those circumstances.

 

[sgtmac_46]

xkcd.com

Okay, that was pretty good!

 

[elder999]

Well, maybe it was a "photo op" moment, but I think, that after all the finger pointing, tongue wagging, shouting, arresting, emailing and beer drinking was over, Sgt. Crowley displayed the real content of his character by helping the guy down the stairs.....

 

[Archangel M]

Well, maybe it was a "photo op" moment, but I think, that after all the finger pointing, tongue wagging, shouting, arresting, emailing and beer drinking was over, Sgt. Crowley displayed the real content of his character by helping the guy down the stairs.....

and Im pretty sure that the prof. probably got the same treatment at the time of his arrest....getting arrested isn't typically getting taken to the ground, tazed, knelt on and banged off of a car roof for a trip to the station where you are hosed down naked in a cell. For a discon arrest the person is typically out the door before I can even finish my report.

 

[Big Don]

Hey, SgtMac, don't hold back so much, let loose a little, tell us how you really feel.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Well, maybe it was a "photo op" moment, but I think, that after all the finger pointing, tongue wagging, shouting, arresting, emailing and beer drinking was over, Sgt. Crowley displayed the real content of his character by helping the guy down the stairs.....

Agreed. Long before this was a photo op for President Obama, other opportunists were spinning this story to their advantage. Putting Sergeant Crowley and Professor Gates in a room together was not only the smart thing to do, it was the right thing to do.

President Obama's role as conciliator would have had more resonance had he resisted the impulse to comment. I would describe that from afar as a low point in his Presidency -- he didn't need to say anything, didn't have the facts, and should have set an example by staying above the fray.

This event still has the potential to be a good learning opportunity about racial tensions.

 

[jks9199]

and Im pretty sure that the prof. probably got the same treatment at the time of his arrest....getting arrested isn't typically getting taken to the ground, tazed, knelt on and banged off of a car roof for a trip to the station where you are hosed down naked in a cell. For a discon arrest the person is typically out the door before I can even finish my report.

He absolutely did get "special treatment" during his arrest. They cuffed him in front (see the pictures or Sgt. Crowley's report), and got his cane.

He's lucky... because it takes a hell of a lot for me to cuff a prisoner's hands in front. I may take various steps to reduce shoulder strain (I once had to use 3 sets of cuffs to handle a particularly large guy!), but I don't think there have been 5 people I've arrested and cuffed in front.

 

[Archangel M]

I think Gates can find a "teachable moment" from of all people Bob Dylan.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-tc-ft-dylan-0816-0817aug17,0,7306722.story

 

[Big Don]

I think Gates can find a "teachable moment" from of all people Bob Dylan.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/chi-tc-ft-dylan-0816-0817aug17,0,7306722.story

Aside from Bob Dylan not being recognized by two different cops, and the amusement that gave me, The difference between Dylan and Gates? Dylan didn't immediately pitch a fit. He behaved as an adult should. Wow, I never liked Dylan's music or politics, but, I can respect him for his behavior in this instance.

 

[Hudson69]

Whatever the sequence of events were no crime was committed and the home owner got arrested for forcing his own door. Charges were dropped so I guess the cops see it that way too.

The Professor was apparently only arrested after losing control; after being warned not too. I do not know how I would handle responding to an in-progress call for service and then being called a racist by the person whose property crime I was (potentially) responding too.

Honest Citizens and Criminals come in all sizes and shapes so dress and mannerisms take a back seat until as many facts as possible can be laid bare. Being there was good, getting good ID was mandatory, management of the arrestee during initial contact could have gone better.

To make matters worse, it was an ugly situation only made all the poorer by a political figure who made a "I hear this as all Police are bad" statement after the fact.