Racist Cop or Combative Professor?

[sgtmac_46]

I fail to see that, as I said, I've not brought up his race as an issue once in this thread. I'll let you in on a secret, I'm not black, I'm Indian. An old man got arrested in his own house, that's how I see it. I just caught onto your race bater comment that you must clearly think I'm sticking up for one of my "own" well that does away with your argument. Since you continuously are referencing race in relation to my posts, there you are.

You didn't bring race in to this issue.......Obama and Gates introduced that canard. In fact it was Gates' own racist views that created this situation.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Badge # is on the badge, name is on the name plate, on his shirt.

Exactly, and what's more I actually believe Crowley when he says he identified himself when he showed up. 'I'm Sgt. Crowley with the Cambridge police department'.......

 

[sgtmac_46]

Oh, for crying out loud. I never suggested that Crowley broke a law. Jesus, the lengths you guys are going to in order to defend this guy's actions. Should he have walked off? Most definitely. Absolutely. I definitely would like to think that every LEO I know would have.

Walk off from what? A burglary in progress? Funny how nobody involved is required to exercise personality responsibility in this situation in your mind, INCLUDING the President of the United States, EXCEPT the officer involved who was trying to do his job.........that's pretty telling.

The most powerful man on the PLANET isn't required to exercise intelligence and comment sense in front of his teleprompter......BUT a police officer in a volatile situation MUST please every member of society.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Gates was loud and abrasive long before showing his ID.........the folks who identify with the professor in this situation must have an identical chip on their shoulder the size of Mt. Everest.........and probably is used to creating these type of situations.


Here's a hint......how about instead of assuming that the 'white cop' is here to racial profile the black man, use your BRAIN and realize he's here because the neighbor called about someone breaking in to your HOUSE, pull your head out of your nether regions, say 'Oh, ok officer, that was just me, my door was stuck, here's my identification, is there anything else I can do for you?'

But for SOME folks, being a jackass in these situations is viewed as a BIRTH RIGHT! Anyone who thinks that wait is a racist IDIOT pure and simple. The title of this thread should be changed to 'Racist Professor', because that's the root of the issue.....Gates is a blithering racist who sees SKIN COLOR even before common sense! And the folks attacking Sgt. Crowley are doing their best to SHIELD that QUITE OBVIOUS REALITY that Gates Racism, regardless of what one thinks of Sgt. Crowley's response to his actions, was the CORE OF THE INCIDENT!

Because even if we say that perhaps Sgt. Crowley overreacted to Gates racist tirade.......Gates is STILL A RACIST! And the President's defense of an obvious racist is disappointing, but not surprising given his circle of intimates. The irony is that no one seriously disagrees with the fact that Gates is a racist........it's quite clear. His apologists just justify it by the fact that in years past Gates was the victim of racism, so now his own racist views are justified.......really?!

 

[MJS]

I know I posted this question a while back and I know Sgtmac46 did as well, and AFAIK it still hasnt been answered, so here goes again. I find it interesting that some are talking about the response of the PD and how that supposedly caused more of a disturbance, yet I'm wondering....how do you think the cops should respond to a call like that? If they took their time and something went wrong, we all know damn well that someone would raise a stink. So, the cops go 'code' to the call, most likely shut down prior to getting to the area, and somehow this is what caused the good 'ol Prof to get pissed off? Please. *rolls eyes*

 

[elder999]

I think the title of the thread is backwards.

It should read: Racist Professor and Combative Cop.

1) Mass. law is clear: when asked for name and badge number, officers have to give it.

2) There was nothing overtly racist in the cop's response-he got a burglary call, he had to check it out.

3)The Prof. was a bunch of things: sick, tired, old, uncooperative, pissed off at having to break his own door down, and, well, black. He naturally didn't respond well. If he had, none of this would happen.

4) After the cop had it sorted out, and was leaving, he should have just kept going-they handcuffed the man on his porch,not the sidewalk, and, frankly, arrested him for not repsecting the cop's authrority, nothing more. He hadn't done anything but yell at the cop, and he'd have stopped if the cop just left.

Bad calls on both sides, no "profiling" involved.

The game you are "laying" is that you deny that your judgement is skewed by Gates' race. If a white professor had been beligerent to the cop and had been arrested for disorderly conduct, it would never had made the news and if it did, (due to the *** in question being a mate of Obama's)Obama would have shrugged the question off with a "no comment" and YOU wouldn't care less about the arrestee. How do I know this? Because you're as transparent as a prison cell tv.

Studies have shown that people tend to align themselves in conflict with people of their same perceived race. It's that simple-wrong and right don't enter into it, and sometimes that "perceived race" is blue. Obama should have kept his mouth shut, but he clearly doesn't know how to: a more "Presidential" thing to do would have been to offer no comment on a local affair that he didn't have all the facts about. He is, however, entitled to his opinion, whatever factors got him there, and however misguided it might be. To say the police acted "stupidly" might be a bit over reaching, but Sgt. Crowley was clearly fed up, and that's the place he acted from, not any particular good judgement: how likely is a riot in such a neighborhood? How likely would the Prof. be to keep "shouting" (there seems to be some question about his ability to raise his voice, due to illness) once the object of his anger had departed the scene?

As for the Prof. himself, well, it's not the way I'd have handled it, or the way I've handled it in the past. Personally, though, I'm well known for not losing my cool-for being unflappable. I think it's kind of a given, working with the things that I do, that one maintain the majority of one's emotional responses internally,and act outwardly as appropriate to the situation. That's me, though-and I have to say that, while externally I've been compliant and cooperative in my interactions with the police, and most of those have generally been more than pleasant, without a hint of "racial" anything, some of them, back in New York, well, some of them had me seething internally. A man gets confronted in his own home, told to step out on the porch, and, while a cooler head (like mine) might have immediately connected the arrival of the police with the forcing of the front door and simply cooperated-or even maliciously complied in the hopes that he'd be arrested for breaking into his own home, and thus could really sue-Skip Gates clearly could not.

 

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[yorkshirelad]

I fail to see that, as I said, I've not brought up his race as an issue once in this thread. I'll let you in on a secret, I'm not black, I'm Indian. An old man got arrested in his own house, that's how I see it. I just caught onto your race bater comment that you must clearly think I'm sticking up for one of my "own" well that does away with your argument. Since you continuously are referencing race in relation to my posts, there you are.

Hello, I can see your avatar, so I know you're not black, but that's inconsequential. The only reason that this incident is even an issue is because of the race componant. To suggest otherwise is insulting to the intelligence of everyone here.

 

[yorkshirelad]

I think the title of the thread is backwards.

It should read: Racist Professor and Combative Cop.

1) Mass. law is clear: when asked for name and badge number, officers have to give it.

2) There was nothing overtly racist in the cop's response-he got a burglary call, he had to check it out.

3)The Prof. was a bunch of things: sick, tired, old, uncooperative, pissed off at having to break his own door down, and, well, black. He naturally didn't respond well. If he had, none of this would happen.

4) After the cop had it sorted out, and was leaving, he should have just kept going-they handcuffed the man on his porch,not the sidewalk, and, frankly, arrested him for not repsecting the cop's authrority, nothing more. He hadn't done anything but yell at the cop, and he'd have stopped if the cop just left.

Bad calls on both sides, no "profiling" involved.



Studies have shown that people tend to align themselves in conflict with people of their same perceived race. It's that simple-wrong and right don't enter into it, and sometimes that "perceived race" is blue. Obama should have kept his mouth shut, but he clearly doesn't know how to: a more "Presidential" thing to do would have been to offer no comment on a local affair that he didn't have all the facts about. He is, however, entitled to his opinion, whatever factors got him there, and however misguided it might be. To say the police acted "stupidly" might be a bit over reaching, but Sgt. Crowley was clearly fed up, and that's the place he acted from, not any particular good judgement: how likely is a riot in such a neighborhood? How likely would the Prof. be to keep "shouting" (there seems to be some question about his ability to raise his voice, due to illness) once the object of his anger had departed the scene?

As for the Prof. himself, well, it's not the way I'd have handled it, or the way I've handled it in the past. Personally, though, I'm well known for not losing my cool-for being unflappable. I think it's kind of a given, working with the things that I do, that one maintain the majority of one's emotional responses internally,and act outwardly as appropriate to the situation. That's me, though-and I have to say that, while externally I've been compliant and cooperative in my interactions with the police, and most of those have generally been more than pleasant, without a hint of "racial" anything, some of them, back in New York, well, some of them had me seething internally. A man gets confronted in his own home, told to step out on the porch, and, while a cooler head (like mine) might have immediately connected the arrival of the police with the forcing of the front door and simply cooperated-or even maliciously complied in the hopes that he'd be arrested for breaking into his own home, and thus could really sue-Skip Gates clearly could not.

Very well put! This is obviously an emotional subject for everyone involved. We all see things through our own unique pair of tinted spectacles. The above post has put all perspectives into....well, perspective.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think the title of the thread is backwards.

It should read: Racist Professor and Combative Cop.

1) Mass. law is clear: when asked for name and badge number, officers have to give it.

2) There was nothing overtly racist in the cop's response-he got a burglary call, he had to check it out.

3)The Prof. was a bunch of things: sick, tired, old, uncooperative, pissed off at having to break his own door down, and, well, black. He naturally didn't respond well. If he had, none of this would happen.

4) After the cop had it sorted out, and was leaving, he should have just kept going-they handcuffed the man on his porch,not the sidewalk, and, frankly, arrested him for not repsecting the cop's authrority, nothing more. He hadn't done anything but yell at the cop, and he'd have stopped if the cop just left.

Bad calls on both sides, no "profiling" involved.



Studies have shown that people tend to align themselves in conflict with people of their same perceived race. It's that simple-wrong and right don't enter into it, and sometimes that "perceived race" is blue. Obama should have kept his mouth shut, but he clearly doesn't know how to: a more "Presidential" thing to do would have been to offer no comment on a local affair that he didn't have all the facts about. He is, however, entitled to his opinion, whatever factors got him there, and however misguided it might be. To say the police acted "stupidly" might be a bit over reaching, but Sgt. Crowley was clearly fed up, and that's the place he acted from, not any particular good judgement: how likely is a riot in such a neighborhood? How likely would the Prof. be to keep "shouting" (there seems to be some question about his ability to raise his voice, due to illness) once the object of his anger had departed the scene?

As for the Prof. himself, well, it's not the way I'd have handled it, or the way I've handled it in the past. Personally, though, I'm well known for not losing my cool-for being unflappable. I think it's kind of a given, working with the things that I do, that one maintain the majority of one's emotional responses internally,and act outwardly as appropriate to the situation. That's me, though-and I have to say that, while externally I've been compliant and cooperative in my interactions with the police, and most of those have generally been more than pleasant, without a hint of "racial" anything, some of them, back in New York, well, some of them had me seething internally. A man gets confronted in his own home, told to step out on the porch, and, while a cooler head (like mine) might have immediately connected the arrival of the police with the forcing of the front door and simply cooperated-or even maliciously complied in the hopes that he'd be arrested for breaking into his own home, and thus could really sue-Skip Gates clearly could not.

Good points.......though I wouldn't say that we just identify with those of the same race........it would be more accurate to say we identify with those most like ourselves, race being one component of that.......and in Obama's case that apparently extends to identifying with people who say stupid things before thinking about them.


As for Gates........one would believe that a 'learned' and intelligent Harvard Professor would be able to control himself better........or at least come up with a better taunt for the officer than talking about his 'Mama'......

 

[Omar B]

Hello, I can see your avatar, so I know you're not black, but that's inconsequential. The only reason that this incident is even an issue is because of the race componant. To suggest otherwise is insulting to the intelligence of everyone here.

You were the one calling me a "race bater" man. I presented what I thought on the issue of the old man being arrested and a couple cops within this thread have said that situations like this did not have to end in arrest. You seemed to follow my posts screaming race and Obama though.

 

[Carol]

As far as the charges being dropped. That is NOT the call of the police agency. Only the Prosecuting Attorney's Office can do that. One of the reasons that they can dismiss charges is "would not be in the best interest of the public". They knew that they would have a crap storm if they continued on with the charges. They knew it would be in THEIR best interest to make it go away.

But police agencies ca (and do) make recommendations to the District Attorney office that the charges be dropped, do they not?

And, when the police makes such a recommendation, this carries considerable weight with the DA's office, does it not?

A prosecutor is dropping a charge against prominent Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. after Cambridge, Massachusetts, and the city's police department recommended that the matter not be pursued.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/massachusetts.harvard.professor.arrested/

 

[jks9199]

But police agencies ca (and do) make recommendations to the District Attorney office that the charges be dropped, do they not?

And, when the police makes such a recommendation, this carries considerable weight with the DA's office, does it not?


http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/21/massachusetts.harvard.professor.arrested/

It all depends. I know some jurisdictions that the prosecutors seldom listen to the officers when they make a request like that, unless there's on hell of a good reason. And I know others that'll drop a charge without a question.

 

[yorkshirelad]

You were the one calling me a "race bater" man. I presented what I thought on the issue of the old man being arrested and a couple cops within this thread have said that situations like this did not have to end in arrest. You seemed to follow my posts screaming race and Obama though.

I stand by my remarks.

 

[jks9199]

Allow me a small, unofficial observation... this thread is 13 pages long. On a VERY heated topic and issue. Yet, by and large, it's remained civil. I'm impressed! People are doing a fantastic job of discussing the issues, and not pulling personalities into it. Great job, everyone!

 

[MJS]

The General Law of Massachusetts

PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT


TITLE VII. CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS


CHAPTER 41. OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS


POLICE OFFICERS


Chapter 41: Section 98D. Identification cards


Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing his photograph and the municipal seal. Such card shall be carried on the officer’s person, and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.
source: Here are the links to the relevant Mass. laws http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98d.htm and [URL="http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98c.htm"]http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98c.htm[/URL]

Thanks. As far as showing this goes, as I said, it is a courtesy, however, in the middle of an investigation, providing that info, IMO, takes a back seat. I highly doubt in this case, the Prof was doubting that the officers in front of him were fake. He was most likely asking because he was pissed and wanted to file a complaint.

 

[Big Don]

The Smoking Gun has the POLICE REPORT.

I think the title of the thread is backwards.

It should read: Racist Professor and Combative Cop.

Almost, it should read Racist, combative professor and Cop.
There was NO racism by the police. NONE. How can I say that? They weren't accosting random black people. They only spoke to the ONLY person inside the house where the BREAK IN was reported. He happened to be black, and, by the way, an ***, but, the cops talked to him ONLY because a break in was reported AT THAT HOUSE and he was the only one AT THAT HOUSE. This whole mess would have been nothing had he not been a jackass.

 

[sgtmac_46]

You were the one calling me a "race bater" man. I presented what I thought on the issue of the old man being arrested and a couple cops within this thread have said that situations like this did not have to end in arrest. You seemed to follow my posts screaming race and Obama though.

For the record I don't remotely believe that you are a race baiter......it's painfully obvious, however, that Gates is, and far more unfortunately, so is our President.

As to the arrest, many situations don't have to end in arrest.....this situation being the same......but it is GATES most responsible for his own arrest. Furthermore, the worst allegation that one can make against Sgt. Crowley is that yes, he had the authority to arrest Gates (no one has intelligently argued that Gates wasn't legally subject to arrest), but that he should have used more discretion.......but even those arguing that point can't make a case that Sgt. Crowley did what he did out of any bias or general malice.........rather, they claim he responded to a volatile situation in a way they don't imagine themselves responding to.........that's all well and good, we are each entitled to our opinions.......but the REAL issue in this case is the ARROGANT and RECKLESS comments of our commander-in-chief........comments that show him UTTERLY unfit for the office he currently occupies.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Thanks. As far as showing this goes, as I said, it is a courtesy, however, in the middle of an investigation, providing that info, IMO, takes a back seat. I highly doubt in this case, the Prof was doubting that the officers in front of him were fake. He was most likely asking because he was pissed and wanted to file a complaint.

I don't even think he was asking because he wanted to file a complaint, I think the officer had already identified himself...probably several times.....I think he was asking for the EXACT same reason he was referring to Sgt. Crowley's mother.......it was part of his taunting diatribe........

 

[Omar B]

For the record I don't remotely believe that you are a race baiter......it's painfully obvious, however, that Gates is, and far more unfortunately, so is our President.

As to the arrest, many situations don't have to end in arrest.....this situation being the same......but it is GATES most responsible for his own arrest. Furthermore, the worst allegation that one can make against Sgt. Crowley is that yes, he had the authority to arrest Gates (no one has intelligently argued that Gates wasn't legally subject to arrest), but that he should have used more discretion.......but even those arguing that point can't make a case that Sgt. Crowley did what he did out of any bias or general malice.........rather, they claim he responded to a volatile situation in a way they don't imagine themselves responding to.........that's all well and good, we are each entitled to our opinions.......but the REAL issue in this case is the ARROGANT and RECKLESS comments of our commander-in-chief........comments that show him UTTERLY unfit for the office he currently occupies.

Yeah man, I see what you are saying. I also believe that it didn't have to end in arrest. Some in this thread would frame me as a race bater for that. Having a different opinion makes me some sort of race bater now.