Racism in Martial Arts

[wingchun100]

okay. You believe what you want to believe.

Let me just say it this way. What would I do? I'm a guy running a small group of folks I've known for years. A new guy comes to me accusing two of my oldest training partners of being a racist. I would thank him and tell him that I'll talk to the guys. I'd then talk to the guys and remind them that if they're racists they need to keep it out of the school.

If that new guy feels like it's appropriate to follow up, I'll politely tell him that it's really no longer his business. If he gives me attitude and starts suggesting on a public forum that I'm not acting with integrity, I might have to do something about that new guy.

That's how I'd handle it as a school owner.

If I'm the person who witnessed overt racism, I'd first say something to the guys directly. Then I'd mention it to the school owner. If he says he talked to them and I don't believe him, I'd look for a new school. I wouldn't stay at a place where I think the school owner lacks integrity and where the students are overt racists.

That's how if handle it as a student.

I never suggested anything about him not acting with integrity. I just said he told me about talking to them. I asked what they said, and his answer was not clear. That's all. You want to read into it that I said he wasn't acting with integrity...well, I don't know what to tell you.

As for looking for another place to train, I already have them. First of all, the same Sifu teaches a Wednesday night class where, to this point, NO ONE has spewed any racist comments. Second, there is one other Wing Chun school (from the same lineage) and several JKD schools in the area.

 

[Steve]

I never suggested anything about him not acting with integrity. I just said he told me about talking to them. I asked what they said, and his answer was not clear. That's all. You want to read into it that I said he wasn't acting with integrity...well, I don't know what to tell you.

As for looking for another place to train, I already have them. First of all, the same Sifu teaches a Wednesday night class where, to this point, NO ONE has spewed any racist comments. Second, there is one other Wing Chun school (from the same lineage) and several JKD schools in the area.

ugh. I just shared what I would do as the school owner in this situation and as the student


Honestly, up until you posted that you asked him if he said anything and then stated that you weren't satisfied with his answer, I was with you. I agree, up to that point, even to needing to leave the school.

You said

He told me he said something to them, but when I asked what was said, there was no reply...not as of yet anyway.

i think you crossed the line going back and pushing the issue with your sifu. Don't get me wrong. That's your prerogative. i think at best, it's none of your business at that point what he said, and at worst, it could be construed as questioning his integrity, I mean, really. "When I asked him what was said, there was no reply.... not as of yet anyway." Lol. Come on.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This isn't really a school. This is/was an informal gathering of the one that I consider to be my Sifu, and two of his old Wing Chun brothers who both learned from the same person. So the Sifu and these other two are at the same "level," so to speak. As for why he got appointed Sifu and the others did not, I have no idea. Anyway, my point is there were only 4 of us there. Therefore, that means 50% of the people present said racist things.

Oh. I was thinking that it was a school and that day only 4 people showed up. But you are saying that there is only 4 total in your group?

 

[JP3]

This isn't really a school. This is/was an informal gathering of the one that I consider to be my Sifu, and two of his old Wing Chun brothers who both learned from the same person. So the Sifu and these other two are at the same "level," so to speak. As for why he got appointed Sifu and the others did not, I have no idea. Anyway, my point is there were only 4 of us there. Therefore, that means 50% of the people present said racist things.

So, if you left, then 75% of the people there would have said racist things. And if the designated sifu there went to the bathroom, then 100% of the people there would have said racist things.

I'm not understanding the relevance of the percentage of people to you. To me, it's the fact that it happened that should cause the distress, not the numbers, though I grant you, majority-minority opinions do make a big impact, but that wasn't the... tenor of your original post... it didn't strike me that way, anyway. It was the fact that it happened at all in an environment you had previously considered a ... safe zone from such things, for lack of a better term.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So, if you left, then 75% of the people there would have said racist things. And if the designated sifu there went to the bathroom, then 100% of the people there would have said racist things.

I'm not understanding the relevance of the percentage of people to you. To me, it's the fact that it happened that should cause the distress, not the numbers, though I grant you, majority-minority opinions do make a big impact, but that wasn't the... tenor of your original post... it didn't strike me that way, anyway. It was the fact that it happened at all in an environment you had previously considered a ... safe zone from such things, for lack of a better term.

It has nothing to do with the point of your post, but there's a nit I have to pick. If he left the room, 66.7% of the people left would have said racist things.

Okay, I feel better now.

 

[JP3]

In my defense, I'm presently struggling with a serious head cold, feel like I'm breathing through a wet cloth eyes are itchy and nose hurts and thoughts are somewhat... tattered is a good description. On top of that I'm hungry, which I suppose may be a good sign that the dnd is in sight.

Yes, 1 out of 3 is 33 & 1/3... remainder is 66 & 2/3.... ack.

 

[wingchun100]

So, if you left, then 75% of the people there would have said racist things. And if the designated sifu there went to the bathroom, then 100% of the people there would have said racist things.

I'm not understanding the relevance of the percentage of people to you. To me, it's the fact that it happened that should cause the distress, not the numbers, though I grant you, majority-minority opinions do make a big impact, but that wasn't the... tenor of your original post... it didn't strike me that way, anyway. It was the fact that it happened at all in an environment you had previously considered a ... safe zone from such things, for lack of a better term.

The percentage IS relevant in that if it were a class of 20 people and only 2 did that, the odds would be more in my favor that more people would be against that stuff rather than of the same mindset. In this situation, 2 were for it...1 was apparently neutral...and 1 was against it.

 

[Juany118]

We need to stand up and be counted, not to remain silent as silence only helps perpetuate the hatred. Yes, absolutely you must say something, to not remonstrate is an almost tacit agreement that what they said is fine. You may not change their way of thinking but you can certainly make them see it's not acceptable. Today, Holocaust Remembrance Day, shows us what silence and averted eyes leads to.


View attachment 20355

If there was a <3 emote I would have hit it. Racism is a cancer.

 

[Hyoho]

On this board, we have discussed transgendered people and LGBT people in martial arts. Now I would like to see what people think about THIS particular issue.

Last Sunday I was at my Wing Chun class. There were four people there total: the Sifu, two other gentlemen, and myself. For those of you who have not seen my previous profile picture, I am a white boy. However, I have daughters who are part black. You will see why I needed to preface the story with that in a moment.

I was doing Chi Sao with the Sifu when I overheard a conversation that the other two gentlemen were having. One man started talking about how he hated the whole "Black Lives Matter" thing, and the other said, "Yeah, I'm sick of those N-words complaining."

I stopped doing Chi Sao immediately and told them I did not appreciate that kind of talk, and it was very offensive to me. They just looked at me funny, then continued doing their practice. Then it dawned on me: "Wow...only 4 people here, and 50% of them said offensive things!"

Personally, I don't feel like training with these gentlemen anymore. My love of my daughters exceeds my love of Wing Chun training, and it is my belief that by hanging out with them, they will probably think I am okay with it after all.

At any rate, I do have other ways in which I could pursue Wing Chun training without having to feel like I sold out any other beliefs that I have.

I'm not asking anyone what they think I should have done. I posted this because the question is, "What would YOU do?"

Well Chinese art seem to differ to Japanese. I my Dojo "nobody" talks unless it pertains to what we are practicing. A bit more "martial" would go a long way.
To my way of thinking black people are some of the best athletes and musicians in the world.

 

[drop bear]

Well Chinese art seem to differ to Japanese. I my Dojo "nobody" talks unless it pertains to what we are practicing. A bit more "martial" would go a long way.
To my way of thinking black people are some of the best athletes and musicians in the world.

And you really wont get the irony of that. Will you?

 

[JP3]

And you really wont get the irony of that. Will you?

Most likely... no.

 

[wingchun100]

Well Chinese art seem to differ to Japanese. I my Dojo "nobody" talks unless it pertains to what we are practicing. A bit more "martial" would go a long way.
To my way of thinking black people are some of the best athletes and musicians in the world.

Is that part supposed to be irony or sarcasm?

 

[drop bear]

Is that part supposed to be irony or sarcasm?

I just think he didn't really get what he said there. Part of the racism conversation is understanding that different cultures have different concepts as to what is racist. Based on their own histories.

 

[Steve]

Something my 8 year old asked me. Why is it racist to say something in English using an exaggerated Chinese accent, but not racist to say something in English using an exaggerated French or Norwegian accent?

 

[wingchun100]

Listen to your heart. I understand the situation you are in.

I am glad to read this from you.

I am sure no one was wondering, but I did find a way around all of this. The same Sifu holds a class on Wednesday nights that the other two do NOT attend. Also, there is one other Wing Chun school in the area, as well as a couple different JKD schools. Since I have been doing Wing Chun since 1995, I have a good foundation if I choose to go the JKD way instead.

 

[Hyoho]

Is that part supposed to be irony or sarcasm?

Neither. What kind of class are you attending where people chat in the corner? Is this a social gathering. Some schools I attend will hit the roof if so much as look at he clock. You are supposed to leave everything that does not pertain to training "outside".

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well Chinese art seem to differ to Japanese. I my Dojo "nobody" talks unless it pertains to what we are practicing. A bit more "martial" would go a long way.
To my way of thinking black people are some of the best athletes and musicians in the world.

That may be true, but Africa is so diverse, that for every bronze god, their is an equally clumsy oaf, that can't get through a doorway without hurting themselves.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think we have been going about this all wrong. It really should be, TALL LIVES MATTER.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Neither. What kind of class are you attending where people chat in the corner? Is this a social gathering. Some schools I attend will hit the roof if so much as look at he clock. You are supposed to leave everything that does not pertain to training "outside".

That is one way of training. Not all instructors or schools take that approach. The mats were for training when I was coming up through the ranks, but a fair amount of friendly chatting happened off-mats between classes.

 

[Buka]

Something my 8 year old asked me. Why is it racist to say something in English using an exaggerated Chinese accent, but not racist to say something in English using an exaggerated French or Norwegian accent?

Good question. What did you tell her, Steve?