What makes you a "true" martial artist?

[wingchun100]

I have been blessed in my life (and I don't use the word "blessed" often) to have trained under some of the greatest Martial Artists the world has known. Not one of them would have made the comments you mentioned by those "sifus". Not to spare feelings, not because it's impolite, but because it's something that only as asshat would do. I know a lot of great martial arts instructors from a whole lot of different style and backgrounds - none of them would have made those comments either, not even if they didn't like the person.

I've been doing this for a long time, to me, what you have there is a perfect example of what a "true martial artist" is NOT, and never will be. You just keep rocking, bro. As for the whole depression thing, there's lots of us, good thing it's a God damn big boat.

I just bought a book about Warriors. Maybe I'll let them read it when I'm done.....nah, F em', they wouldn't understand it. It's about Martial arts.

Sadly, a lot of people follow him blindly because I have tried talking to some of the people that I thought were friends since I left that school, and all I get is the cold shoulder. They are blinded by devotion. Well, that and maybe they don't want to cheese off the guy they think is the only wing chun game in town. (Little do they know...he ISN'T.)

 

[wingchun100]

It's just inappropriate to specifically call someone out in a very public forum like that, where family and friends and everyone else who are remotely linked thru a friend of a friend of a friend, but who have no actual connection to the issue itself, can see it.

If he wanted to comment to you about it, he should have done so privately. It's just common decency. And that doesn't mean his comment would be right, but it's a better way to have the discussion.

I wrote a public reply to him, asking why he could not have said all of that in private. Next thing you know, he deleted his comment.

 

[wingchun100]

I think this goes to the concept of picking the right school/program. If you want a program that doesn't have any focus beyond the combat/sport skill, then go to a school that doesn't have one. My program has a secondary purpose of helping people improve their ability to function in all areas of life, so there are expectations beyond just physical skill. If someone said they weren't interested in that, I'd suggest they visit schools until they find one that has the right mix for them. I'm not much of a stickler for people always being in class, though that was a big thing early in my training.

That said, I believe there's room for "warrior spirit" to be defined in a way that meets the learning needs of any given program. I've been known to use the term, but only to express how perseverance translates from the dojo to life, and never as a way to put someone down.

Like most instructors, I am disappointed when a student quits (assuming they were a decent student). It removes something from the school, takes a training partner from the other students, and removes an opportunity for me to help someone. That said, if someone needs to make that choice for whatever reason, I do what I can to support their need, rather than my own. I don't think that's what the sifu in the OP was doing.

Funny you should say that comment about their need rather than your own. That was clearly all he cared about: what HE wanted out of me to fit HIS agenda.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've been thinking about this a lot due to the situation I am in. It is something I reflect on often, although I think ultimately everyone has to answer it for themselves.

Over the years, I have been in and out of attendance at my previous Wing Chun school. Some of this was due to laziness on my part. Other times, it was due to my mental state. (I'm not ashamed to admit I suffer from depression, and when my mood was on the down swing, driving to class actually felt like driving to work.) Then for a long time I was in an awful marriage. I WANTED to go to class, but I would face a nightmare when I got home if my ex-wife thought I had spent "too much time" there instead of heading straight home from work to sit next to her on the couch and do nothing.

Eventually, I left that relationship and started going to class again...practically every night. Many years passed, and I moved in with a girlfriend. Due to a sudden tightening of my budget, I was unable to go to class anymore. The Sifu at that school put me on blast on my Facebook profile, posting a public message for all to see where he called me a "fairweather wing chun student." I mean, let me be honest here: I got 4 kids. Feeding them, clothing them, and providing them shelter take precedence over MY wing chun training.

And yet during all those times when I wasn't in class, I kept training my forms...kept practicing my techniques even if it was only in the air...took every chance I could to show anyone who asked me "What's wing chun" to demonstrate for them, because in my opinon one of the best ways to prove you understand the style is to explain it to someone with zero exposure to it. The only thing I wasn't able to do was practice chi sao because obviously that requires at least two people.

Recently I shared my history with some people in a wing chun Facebook group, and someone claiming to be a Sifu (I say this because I have not checked his credentials out) took a swipe at me. All I was trying to do was be open and honest, and he makes the comment that I have no "warrior spirit." (If you ask me, I have more than some people because I kept on practicing even when I wasn't going to class. Hell, I know people who were in my class who were amazed that I practiced my forms several times at home because THEY didn't even do them once a day!)

Anyway, I've been dwelling on those two statements: "fairweather wing chun student" and "you have no warrior spirit," probably more than I should be. But it got me thinking that it would make good subject matter for a post here.

So what do you think? What makes someone a "true" martial artist with REAL "warrior spirit?" Can such a thing be judged on class attendance alone?

I'd like to know your thoughts. I don't know why those comments got under my skin. I know I shouldn't let them, but sometimes negativity finds its way into your soul, and it isn't that easy to kick it back out.

Don't sweat it. I got punched in the face multiple times and just recently kick in the balls for the sake of trying to learn Kung Fu. So if you have received punches, been bruised, injured, and hurt, because of your passion for martial arts then you are a true martial artist.

Life gets in the way and that's common for Martial Artists. Part of what I'm about to say is probably me being angry about the groin kick and some other issues. But if you spar at your school. Punch them in the gut and let them suck on some air.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This has nothing to do with traditional martial arts, you can find the very same thing in modern martial arts as more than often the coach will say "I guess (insert name) is too much of a pussy to come to class." This attitude can exist in both outlets and is more of a problem with the sifu/sensei or coach than it is the classification of art.

Thanks for pointing this out. This is definitely not a "Traditional Martial Arts" issue. I've seen things like this even in highschool sports . It's definitely an individual problem and people letting their ego take control.

 

[Ironbear24]

Thanks for pointing this out. This is definitely not a "Traditional Martial Arts" issue. I've seen things like this even in highschool sports . It's definitely an individual problem and people letting their ego take control.

Yeah if anything it is a coaching problem. I am lucky to have never had to deal with that before but I have seen it happen in many places, mostly football with dads being too pushy on their sons. Like seriously dude, your 5'2 90 something pound son doesn't want to play football and is obviously not cut out for it. It will honestly just embarrass him when he doesn't make the team.

I get parents and coaches want their kids/students to do well and give it their all but sometimes **** happens.

 

[Ironbear24]

Don't sweat it. I got punched in the face multiple times and just recently kick in the balls for the sake of trying to learn Kung Fu. So if you have received punches, been bruised, injured, and hurt, because of your passion for martial arts then you are a true martial artist.

Life gets in the way and that's common for Martial Artists. Part of what I'm about to say is probably me being angry about the groin kick and some other issues. But if you spar at your school. Punch them in the gut and let them suck on some air.

This happened to me yesterday, I was being cocky with a white belt and didn't even have my hands up in a block/parry and counter attack drill. Now I know not to do that anymore

 

[RTKDCMB]

I got punched in the face multiple times and just recently kick in the balls for the sake of trying to learn Kung Fu.

I fractured my toe on Monday night during two on one free sparring when my side kick was kicked in mid air by a turning kick. I still finished the round and did one more straight after, taught patterns and then went straight to the hospital after class.

 

[Buka]

I fractured my toe on Monday night during two on one free sparring when my side kick was kicked in mid air by a turning kick. I still finished the round and did one more straight after, taught patterns and then went straight to the hospital after class.

Oh, that so hurts. Heal up well, bro.

 

[takadadojokeith]

Every time I hear of someone questioning whether or not someone is a true martial artist, it makes me think of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

 

[WaterGal]

It's just inappropriate to specifically call someone out in a very public forum like that, where family and friends and everyone else who are remotely linked thru a friend of a friend of a friend, but who have no actual connection to the issue itself, can see it.

If he wanted to comment to you about it, he should have done so privately. It's just common decency. And that doesn't mean his comment would be right, but it's a better way to have the discussion.

Absolutely. Though even then, it's not productive to shame your students - if someone stops coming to class, a much better approach is to call or e-mail them to see what's going on. Maybe they've been sick, or had a family emergency and had to travel suddenly, and will feel touched that you reached out to them. Or in this case, it's a money issue. Maybe the instructor can offer the person a reduced rate for a few months. Any of these things could lead to the person returning to the school once their situation improves, but if you shame them, they probably will quit for real and never come back.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I fractured my toe on Monday night during two on one free sparring when my side kick was kicked in mid air by a turning kick. I still finished the round and did one more straight after, taught patterns and then went straight to the hospital after class.

Ouch.. take care of that toe. I wish you a fast recovery,

 

[Midnight-shadow]

What is a "true" Martial Artist? Whenever someone brings this kind of thing up I'm always reminded of the definition of Kung Fu. Contrary to popular belief, Kung Fu is not the name of a Chinese Martial Art, but instead simply means "skill developed through hard work". A lot of people get too hung up on the end result of their training, instead of just enjoying the training and doing it regularly. To me, a "true" Martial Artist is a person that trains regularly and consistently, even if it is just once a week, regardless of what they are training for. An MMA fighter who trains every day is just as true a Martial Artist as someone who trains every day for a wushu or forms competition. In my opinion, as long as you are training regularly to develop your skills you are a true Martial Artist.

 

[Balrog]

And yet during all those times when I wasn't in class, I kept training my forms...kept practicing my techniques even if it was only in the air..
...snip...

So what do you think? What makes someone a "true" martial artist with REAL "warrior spirit?"

I think you answered your own question. Desire, discipline and dedication. Never give up.

 

[wingchun100]

Absolutely. Though even then, it's not productive to shame your students - if someone stops coming to class, a much better approach is to call or e-mail them to see what's going on. Maybe they've been sick, or had a family emergency and had to travel suddenly, and will feel touched that you reached out to them. Or in this case, it's a money issue. Maybe the instructor can offer the person a reduced rate for a few months. Any of these things could lead to the person returning to the school once their situation improves, but if you shame them, they probably will quit for real and never come back.

And that is exactly what I did. I have not set foot in that school since. He had a video of me doing chi sao with him on his YouTube channel. I was so incensed that I told him via a certified letter that he had no right to use my image in any way that helped promote his school, so he was to take that video down or I would pursue legal action. He took it down...for a few days, until he thought I would not check anymore. Then he put it back up. Instead of going to a lawyer, I reported it to YouTube themselves, and THEY took it down.

 

[KangTsai]

I've been thinking about this a lot due to the situation I am in. It is something I reflect on often, although I think ultimately everyone has to answer it for themselves.

Over the years, I have been in and out of attendance at my previous Wing Chun school. Some of this was due to laziness on my part. Other times, it was due to my mental state. (I'm not ashamed to admit I suffer from depression, and when my mood was on the down swing, driving to class actually felt like driving to work.) Then for a long time I was in an awful marriage. I WANTED to go to class, but I would face a nightmare when I got home if my ex-wife thought I had spent "too much time" there instead of heading straight home from work to sit next to her on the couch and do nothing.

Eventually, I left that relationship and started going to class again...practically every night. Many years passed, and I moved in with a girlfriend. Due to a sudden tightening of my budget, I was unable to go to class anymore. The Sifu at that school put me on blast on my Facebook profile, posting a public message for all to see where he called me a "fairweather wing chun student." I mean, let me be honest here: I got 4 kids. Feeding them, clothing them, and providing them shelter take precedence over MY wing chun training.

And yet during all those times when I wasn't in class, I kept training my forms...kept practicing my techniques even if it was only in the air...took every chance I could to show anyone who asked me "What's wing chun" to demonstrate for them, because in my opinon one of the best ways to prove you understand the style is to explain it to someone with zero exposure to it. The only thing I wasn't able to do was practice chi sao because obviously that requires at least two people.

Recently I shared my history with some people in a wing chun Facebook group, and someone claiming to be a Sifu (I say this because I have not checked his credentials out) took a swipe at me. All I was trying to do was be open and honest, and he makes the comment that I have no "warrior spirit." (If you ask me, I have more than some people because I kept on practicing even when I wasn't going to class. Hell, I know people who were in my class who were amazed that I practiced my forms several times at home because THEY didn't even do them once a day!)

Anyway, I've been dwelling on those two statements: "fairweather wing chun student" and "you have no warrior spirit," probably more than I should be. But it got me thinking that it would make good subject matter for a post here.

So what do you think? What makes someone a "true" martial artist with REAL "warrior spirit?" Can such a thing be judged on class attendance alone?

I'd like to know your thoughts. I don't know why those comments got under my skin. I know I shouldn't let them, but sometimes negativity finds its way into your soul, and it isn't that easy to kick it back out.

In English, anyway, there's the word 'artist' in the word, which makes my analogy here—
If you have art as a hobby, others consider you to be extremely good at it, yet you do not have it as a profession, are you not an artist?
Yes, you are, you just wouldn't address yourself one.

Add 'martial' in front of every 'art,' and that's my point.

 

[UqaabKamikaze]

In English, anyway, there's the word 'artist' in the word, which makes my analogy here—
If you have art as a hobby, others consider you to be extremely good at it, yet you do not have it as a profession, are you not an artist?
Yes, you are, you just wouldn't address yourself one.

Add 'martial' in front of every 'art,' and that's my point.

That provoked a question in my mind, can a beginner in any art call himself Artist and more importantly in Martial Art, when (at what stage/belt etc) a beginner can claim to be Martial Artist?

 

[Midnight-shadow]

That provoked a question in my mind, can a beginner in any art call himself Artist and more importantly in Martial Art, when (at what stage/belt etc) a beginner can claim to be Martial Artist?

This is why blanket terms are so annoying, as in order to answer them we have to first define what an "artist" is. According to the Oxford dictionary an Artist is someone who practices or performs one of the creative arts. The creative arts are anything involving the creation of something using ones imagination. According to these descriptions anyone can be an artist, from the youngest baby drawing their first stick figure to the most accomplished professional artist. The actual ability of the individual doesn't define who is or isn't an artist. Similarly, a Martial Artist is anyone who practices a Martial Art, from the white belt on their first lesson right up to a Grand Master. We are all Martial Artists regardless of our ability.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That provoked a question in my mind, can a beginner in any art call himself Artist and more importantly in Martial Art, when (at what stage/belt etc) a beginner can claim to be Martial Artist?

I don't think there's any real limitation on it. I wouldn't call someone a "martial artist" until they've been around a month or more - you know, that point at which you figure they're probably serious enough to stay a while.

 

[Hyoho]

Honestly it's attitudes like that that puts me off traditional martial arts as I have heard similar things. All that warrior spirit it's bs if you want to train one night you train if you don't you don't this isn't 15th century China where everything revolves around training. Those instructors seem very arrogant and up themselves to me there's no such thing as a true martial artist there's no code or creed or anything you have to follow you do what you want to do if you want a night off take it off if you want to train at another school for a week then train there it's your life you do what you want when you want. When I missed a session when I did karate you always felt worried about what they'd say and If i said I had personal issues they'd demand to know what they are. Now if I miss a kickboxing session no one even mentions it.

If you live in Japan? You train all day and every day if possible. No different to sports and other activities that require peak performance, stamina etc. etc. The spirit? Maybe somebody reads too many books. You have to put that in there yourself. As for fighting, "fighters" are chosen when members are still kids and trained to bring that out. If your not a born fighter you never will be good. As for money my teachers never charged me and I try to continue with that. I have always been in M.A. to teach, win and self improvement and even gave up my regular life to do it full time.