Martial Artist, what does that mean?

[jks9199]

That I do completely disagree with by the way, at no point was I forcing anyone to adhere to anything, I was asking questions, possibly uncomfortable questions for some and possibly the wrong questions, but at no point was I asking anyone to comply to anything nor was I trying to force anyone into any belief of my own. I did disagree with some and ask more questions for clarification or to get deeper into the topic. Any feeling of being forced is all from your perception.

Seems to me the question was pretty clear at the start. Filter everything else out, and it boils down to "What does it take to call yourself a martial artist/martial practitioner/whatever term you like?" You can expand that out to include things like how much time do you have to spend, how dedicated do you have to be, what do you have to have given up, suffered through, etc

 

[Punchy]

And since I am not sure of the question maybe it is best just to walk away form the entire thread and leave it at that

Oh no you don't.....you ain't going anywhere mister !
Now let's get this settled.......
.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't use the term "martial artist" but instead martial practitioner. I really don't view what I do as art but more as a means of studying martial ways.

I am rapidly coming over to your side on this

If someone asked me what makes a martial practitioner? I would answer someone that trains in a martial system/science or way. Within the term "martial practitioner" there would be hobbyists and or course serious practitioner's but in the end they all just train!

I like this, so Martial Artist (forgive me I had to use it again) is a container like Martial Arts and inside martial arts you have different styles. So in martial artists you have different types of practitioners...I Like it
.

Oh no you don't.....you ain't going anywhere mister !
Now let's get this settled.......
.

I can't go yet, still working at arranging the whole death match thing with steve on an island near Hong Kong and I think we are only at the challenge and posturing part of the whole posturing, challenges, banter, and death match thingy for his offending my family and offending the Shaolin Temple.. and I have not even got to the challenge and posturing with hoshin for offending my family and offending the Didgeridoo

 

[Punchy]

[QUOTE="Xue Sheng, post: 1717569, member:

I can't go yet, still working at arranging the whole death match thing with steve on an island near Hong Kong and I think we are only at the challenge and posturing part of the whole posturing, challenges, banter, and death match thingy for his offending my family and offending the Shaolin Temple.. and I have not even got to the challenge and posturing with hoshin for offending my family and offending and the Didgeridoo [/QUOTE]

You could always do rock,paper,scissors and call it a day

 

[Danny T]

Depends who you ask, in my opinion art is what someone thinks it is.

Someone might look at that picture and call it art, some may say its just a yellow square (not art), or they might say its both

Hence my statement of only looking a small piece of the total.
The yellow square is but a small piece of the total picture which is this. This is an art masterpiece by an amazing artist.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I am getting more and more uncomfortable with the term "Artist" ...

When you swing your sword, you are trying to cut your opponent's head off. How much art does that involve?

If you help some old lady to cross the street, you then call yourself "saint". That's overrated IMO.

This is why I don't like the term "self-defense". When my fist meets my opponent's face, I'm not defending myself, I'm hurting someone.

 

[Balrog]

The "-ist" suffix in English denotes someone who does something. So a martial artist is someone who does a martial art. There's no differentiation between the White Belt beginner and the Grandmaster teaching him - they are both martial artists.

 

[Tez3]

When you swing your sword, you are trying to cut your opponent's head off. How much art does that involve?

If you help some old lady to cross the street, you then call yourself "saint". That's overrated IMO.

This is why I don't like the term "self-defense". When my fist meets my opponent's face, I'm not defending myself, I'm hurting someone.

Maybe you aren't trying to kill him, you don't always 'swing' your sword in anger, more than likely it's for practice. Besides swords are rarely used in a fight to cut off the head.
If you help an old lady to cross the road you call yourself well brought up, what's with the saint bit?
'Self defence' is a term you need to use when questioned about the altercation, if you say you deliberately set out to hurt someone you will be charged instead or as well as the perpetrator. You may not like the term but you need to bear it in mind.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Hence my statement of only looking a small piece of the total.
The yellow square is but a small piece of the total picture which is this. This is an art masterpiece by an amazing artist. View attachment 19398

When a pretty girl holds a knife, you may find some "art" in it.

When that knife has blood on, you won't find any art in it.

 

[Punchy]

When a pretty girl holds a knife, you may find some "art" in it.

I see your pretty lady and raise you two Michelle Yeoh....

....I know, the second one has absolutely nothing to do with Martial Arts or the topic at hand, but c'mon!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh so now you've decided just to taunt me, is that it...going off topic like that with pictures of Michelle Yeoh....I Mean really...I would NEVER do such a thing...

only martial arts realted pictuers please...like this for example

See martial arts related..... anything not martial arts related...like this

You would NEVER see me post

So to recap..this OK

this not

Who am I trying to kid....its Michelle Yeoh... which really means to me no matter the topic.... Michelle Yeoh is on topic

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Every great thread always has Michelle in it!

 

[Chris Parker]

When a pretty girl holds a knife, you may find some "art" in it.

When that knife has blood on, you won't find any art in it.

You're confusing "art" with "beauty" or "appeal"… "art", in this sense, denotes "skill". So, how much art does it take to take someone's head off with a sword? Quite a bit. Take it from someone who trains swordsmanship.

 

[Tgace]

Take it from someone with an MBA in an "arts" field (I was a "graphic artist" in a previous life) and numerous credit hours of "philosophy of art"...trying to define "art" is something that has gone on unabated since Plato and Aristotle. Nobody here is going to corner the market on an unquestionable definition.

In my personal opinion, "Art" has an element of personal expression in it that separates it from "skill".

In my additional personal opinion. I think that many people (if not "most") who practice Martial Arts are really just practicing Martial Skills. The real problem is that ego and self-aggrandizement make many people think that being an "Artist" is somehow better than being "just skilled".

 

[pgsmith]

That I do completely disagree with by the way, at no point was I forcing anyone to adhere to anything, I was asking questions, possibly uncomfortable questions for some and possibly the wrong questions, but at no point was I asking anyone to comply to anything nor was I trying to force anyone into any belief of my own. I did disagree with some and ask more questions for clarification or to get deeper into the topic. Any feeling of being forced is all from your perception.

You cannot force me to do anything, this is true. You should actually try reading and understanding what I wrote though rather than simply reacting to your own misperceptions. I never once said that you were trying to force anyone to do anything. I said that your questions were asking others what definitions they would put on other people. I believe this is why you were not getting the discussion you were hoping to achieve.

Not an interesting enough topic to be worth the argument though.

Cheers,

 

[Xue Sheng]

You cannot force me to do anything, this is true. You should actually try reading and understanding what I wrote though rather than simply reacting to your own misperceptions. I never once said that you were trying to force anyone to do anything. I said that your questions were asking others what definitions they would put on other people. I believe this is why you were not getting the discussion you were hoping to achieve.

Not an interesting enough topic to be worth the argument though.

Cheers,

Don't want to argue either and I thought I had made that pretty clear throughout this post...but a question...did you write this

I believe so.
All of your questions to this point have been about what people would be willing to try and force others to adhere to.

You may want to try and comprehend what you are writing or at least try and understand that not everyone will interpret what you say exactly the same way you do....and you are right it is not worth arguing over....have a nice day

 

[Jenna]

Does the term artist in any way refer to some kind of creativity? I mean like in other artistic endeavours, some thing, physical or musical or written or acted or whatever is being created yes? Is MA different or do we create some thing with our art also? Or is that not relevant? Jx

 

[Hyoho]

Not really worried about it, just in a philosophical mood today

I've said it before and I'll say it again that the English term 'martial artist' is a very poor translation. Few nowadays take it to an artistic level. Even fewer follow philosophical values. That is if your practice has any philosophical views in the first place. Laymen totally get the wrong idea of what it is about and almost immediately jump to the conclusion that it contains violence, methods of self defence and attack. This may be true of using the body but has little to do with many weapon arts. I was applying to a consulate with a written visa request. The attorney at the time used the term "martial arts". The request was quickly denied. Had the term Japanese cultural activity been used I am sure it would have received less notice.

In Japan we use terms such as Uchi Deshi ( follower of a family) with seems far more appropriate to what some of us do.

Artistic value lies in the fact that we have reached such a high level of fundamentals that we can now add our own character to it to be appreciated by all.

 

[Zero]

I disagree, I played guitar (I was so-so), but I never called myself a musician, nor did I, or do I call someone a musician who is just learning, they are a student of music, but not a musician. I play didgeridoo and I am pretty good at it, still don't think I'm a musician. I am learning the Ukulele and I still do not call myself a musician. To me that would require a level of skill, experience and exposure that I do not have and I tend to look at "Martial Artist" much the same way

Hmmm...but now days there are a reasonable few "Musicians" out there with limited, at best, talent and a far lot more "singers" out there with close to zero talent but they are making an impact, getting on stages and some even (apparently) making good money...are they not "musicians" or "singers" or, even, "artists"?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hmmm...but now days there are a reasonable few "Musicians" out there with limited, at best, talent and a far lot more "singers" out there with close to zero talent but they are making an impact, getting on stages and some even (apparently) making good money...are they not "musicians" or "singers" or, even, "artists"?

Good question, and since Brian's post (#38) about "martial practitioner" my views on such things have changed a bit and become a bit more general in nature