Racism in Martial Arts

[Headhunter]

He told me he said something to them, but when I asked what was said, there was no reply...not as of yet anyway.

Well not to sound rude but what was said between them isn't your business it's between them and it's better he spoke to them privately away from everyone than publicly in front of the class. If you choose to stay accept that it's been dealt with until you have reason to believe otherwise

 

[Gerry Seymour]

He told me he said something to them, but when I asked what was said, there was no reply...not as of yet anyway.

Yeah, there's a difference between, "That's not acceptable here in any way. Are we clear on that?" and "Guys, keep it down while Steve's around, okay?"

 

[wingchun100]

Yeah, there's a difference between, "That's not acceptable here in any way. Are we clear on that?" and "Guys, keep it down while Steve's around, okay?"

Right, and that is why I am curious to know what was said. My guess is if it was the "keep it down while Steve is here" option, he won't tell me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well not to sound rude but what was said between them isn't your business it's between them and it's better he spoke to them privately away from everyone than publicly in front of the class. If you choose to stay accept that it's been dealt with until you have reason to believe otherwise

I don't agree with that. He doesn't need to know the whole story, but saying "I talked to them" doesn't clarify anything. What was the point of talking to them? It would be sufficient if the sifu said, "I spoke with them, and they understand that's not acceptable behavior inside the school."

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't agree with that. He doesn't need to know the whole story, but saying "I talked to them" doesn't clarify anything. What was the point of talking to them? It would be sufficient if the sifu said, "I spoke with them, and they understand that's not acceptable behavior inside the school."

It is not in a actual martial arts school, it is free, and it is a group of guys that have been training together for years and the shifu in question, although rather accomplished, is incredibly easy going and rather non-confrontational. However none of this makes what was said right.

 

[Steve]

I don't agree with that. He doesn't need to know the whole story, but saying "I talked to them" doesn't clarify anything. What was the point of talking to them? It would be sufficient if the sifu said, "I spoke with them, and they understand that's not acceptable behavior inside the school."

I don't agree. As satisfying as it might seem, it's really not his business. if he doesn't trust the sifu enough to take him at his word, that's pretty much all you need to know.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is not in a actual martial arts school, it is free, and it is a group of guys that have been training together for years and the shifu in question, although rather accomplished, is incredibly easy going and rather non-confrontational. However none of this makes what was said right.

That changes the dynamics, but doesn't change my response. Folks who are non-confrontational sometimes take the easy path out and just let the offender know someone was offended, rather than stating an expectation of different behavior. It's an open group, so I wouldn't expect him to dismiss them, but I'd expect him to show some leadership and reassure others (in this case, Steve) that he has done something significant.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't agree. As satisfying as it might seem, it's really not his business. if he doesn't trust the sifu enough to take him at his word, that's pretty much all you need to know.

It's just me expectation of leadership, Steve. Someone in a leadership position should be taking a stand on this issue, and should want to reassure others that such a stand has been taken.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's just me expectation of leadership, Steve. Someone in a leadership position should be taking a stand on this issue, and should want to reassure others that such a stand has been taken.

Apparently, my Irish ancestry got ahold of me and made my first phrase sound like the Lucky Charms leprechaun.

 

[Buka]

Sometimes seems like human beings have a racist component to their DNA. Maybe it's brought out by country boundaries bordering other countries boundaries. Maybe most of it was taught by the elders to the young, either by word or example. I don't know.

Don't like playing that game. Don't like when it's played on me. I've been racially harassed in the past. Had it happen in the Martial World to me back in the day. Not in a little way either. My students, who used to travel and compete - I felt I had to warn them about potential problems/injustices they might encounter (they did). Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I was teaching them not to trust the so and so's.

Any of you suffer racism IN the Martial arts world?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Sometimes seems like human beings have a racist component to their DNA. Maybe it's brought out by country boundaries bordering other countries boundaries. Maybe most of it was taught by the elders to the young, either by word or example. I don't know.

Don't like playing that game. Don't like when it's played on me. I've been racially harassed in the past. Had it happen in the Martial World to me back in the day. Not in a little way either. My students, who used to travel and compete - I felt I had to warn them about potential problems/injustices they might encounter (they did). Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I was teaching them not to trust the so and so's.

Any of you suffer racism IN the Martial arts world?

Don't even get me started.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sometimes seems like human beings have a racist component to their DNA. Maybe it's brought out by country boundaries bordering other countries boundaries. Maybe most of it was taught by the elders to the young, either by word or example. I don't know.

Don't like playing that game. Don't like when it's played on me. I've been racially harassed in the past. Had it happen in the Martial World to me back in the day. Not in a little way either. My students, who used to travel and compete - I felt I had to warn them about potential problems/injustices they might encounter (they did). Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I was teaching them not to trust the so and so's.

Any of you suffer racism IN the Martial arts world?

I haven't, though I've heard a bit directed at other folks. It's unsurprising that I haven't suffered it. I've lived my entire life in the Southeastern US, and I'm a white guy. We're not the targets in this area.

There likely is an in-born component to racism. Evolutionary psychology has some explanations of the process. As we evolved in isolated groups (not a lot of travel over great distances in a single lifetime), people who didn't look like us were likely to be at least competitors for resources and possibly enemies.

 

[Steve]

It's just me expectation of leadership, Steve. Someone in a leadership position should be taking a stand on this issue, and should want to reassure others that such a stand has been taken.

It really depends. Saying, "I spoke with them." Should be enough.

Simply put, you say, "hey so and so we're saying things that are racist and I'm offended." I say, "thanks for telling me. I'll talk to them." That's the end.

You come back and say, "hey did you talk to them?" You're overstepping. If you don't trust me to follow through, that's a problem, too. Make sense? Wc100 says, "he told me he said something to them." To me, that's more than enough.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It really depends. Saying, "I spoke with them." Should be enough.

Simply put, you say, "hey so and so we're saying things that are racist and I'm offended." I say, "thanks for telling me. I'll talk to them." That's the end.

You come back and say, "hey did you talk to them?" You're overstepping. If you don't trust me to follow through, that's a problem, too. Make sense? Wc100 says, "he told me he said something to them." To me, that's more than enough.

We'll probably just disagree on this one, SteveSteve. In my view, there's a trust break in the group as soon as the racism happens. It's the role of the leader (in this case, the sifu) to address that issue. That means addressing both sides: dealing with the offense in some appropriate manner, and helping to restore the trust with the other side. That latter part is the point of being more forthcoming with SteveWingChun100. I wouldn't expect a follower in that situation to be satisfied with the "I spoke to them about it" answer, unless there's a long history of trust. The history in this case is relatively short.

 

[Steve]

Yeah. I think there's a trust issue if I'm discussing conversations I had with one person with another.

Remember, we've heard one side of the story. I'm a guy who's been training with two other people for a very long time (per xue) and a new guy comes in saying my two long time training partners are racists, and when I say I'll talk to them (or in this case, that I have done so) he questions my integrity, Huh.

I think the leader has a duty to act (not to be confused with a Duty to Act) but that means talking to the involved parties, trying to find out what actually happened and setting a clear expectation for what's okay and not okay. But that doesn't need to be public, and there's no obligation to gossip to the new guy who complained.

 

[crazydiamond]

I cant say I would call some of the instructors racists, but I know some have unfortunate prejudices and negative feelings. Muslims are a hot topic. Because of their ties to law enforcement - BLM is also a hot topic.


For me I often have to train with an Irish guy - the dirty drunk bastard. Its all been down hill since we let them in to the USA. But I suppose I am grateful he is not a Kiwi.

 

[Ironbear24]

Sometimes seems like human beings have a racist component to their DNA. Maybe it's brought out by country boundaries bordering other countries boundaries. Maybe most of it was taught by the elders to the young, either by word or example. I don't know.

Don't like playing that game. Don't like when it's played on me. I've been racially harassed in the past. Had it happen in the Martial World to me back in the day. Not in a little way either. My students, who used to travel and compete - I felt I had to warn them about potential problems/injustices they might encounter (they did). Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I was teaching them not to trust the so and so's.

Any of you suffer racism IN the Martial arts world?

On rare occasions people said we didn't belong at tournaments because we weren't Asian. Normally racism is never a problem though.

 

[Steve]

There is a common belief that the Brazilians are biased against non-Brazilians in the IBJJF.

 

[Ironbear24]

There is a common belief that the Brazilians are biased against non-Brazilians in the IBJJF.

There was a thread somewhere around here about that. The individual who wrote it seemed to tired of that whole scene and said many things like the attitudes and "double gaurd pulling" made him sick of it.

 

[wingchun100]

Yeah. I think there's a trust issue if I'm discussing conversations I had with one person with another.

Remember, we've heard one side of the story. I'm a guy who's been training with two other people for a very long time (per xue) and a new guy comes in saying my two long time training partners are racists, and when I say I'll talk to them (or in this case, that I have done so) he questions my integrity, Huh.

I think the leader has a duty to act (not to be confused with a Duty to Act) but that means talking to the involved parties, trying to find out what actually happened and setting a clear expectation for what's okay and not okay. But that doesn't need to be public, and there's no obligation to gossip to the new guy who complained.

I didn't really have to say they are racists. They made that abundantly clear. As for being the new guy, that is irrelevant. Whether I was there five minutes, five months, or five years, one guy clearly said the N word. I mean, I don't know many non-racists who say it with such hatred in their voice like he did.